One of these days, Alice.

[Shevek]

How about a self-sustaining, totally sealed, “bio-dome” here on earth. There hasn’t been one successful example of that, yet.

Yeah, Life is full of surprises. One big discovery for planetary pioneers at Biosphere was that concrete continues to absorb oxygen for many months after being poured. They had to break the seals to save the humans.

 

[JudeB]

Yeah, Life is full of surprises. One big discovery for planetary pioneers at Biosphere was that concrete continues to absorb oxygen for many months after being poured. They had to break the seals to save the humans.

In the words of Doctor Ian Malcom, "Life finds a way."

 

[Dagan]

The moon is extremely weird. Those that have thoroughly studied it...you know what I mean.

The primary issue will be having a water supply because it's seemingly not going to come from the moon itself. Secondary will be simply why the moon has so many craters. It's constantly hit by meteors that do not burn up / shrink up in an atmosphere like the Earth has. Whatever is built there will have to withstand ongoing damage. "Build it underground, then?" I don't think so. Again, back to if one has truly, thoroughly studied the moon. There's a lot going on with that sphere that needs answered and way more thoroughly explored.

 

[Shevek]

I think that for the foreseeable future, the only way to establish a self-supporting enterprise off the Earth is to mine Asteroids using robots.

 

[cooljethro]

I always though it was simply because we've already drastically overpopulated this planet and we've run out of room. Infinite growth within a finite space simply isn't possible.

Better results could be achieved by looking in to ethical ways in which we can limit our population growth, and in fact achieve population decline for several generations. Religious nutters don't like that idea though.

The reason why the Earth is overpopulated is not because of a lack of space (the Earth can hold several times the current global population in terms of mere space) - it is the damaging effect that humans have on the environment that is the issue with population growth.

If you look at how many people live in a place like the UK, or Japan, both of which have incredibly small geographical areas relative to their population sizes and then look at the populations and geographical areas of countries such as the US - there is room for billions more people globally, if only humans were smart enough to plan new cities and such in a compact, rather than a stretched out way.

Just imagine how much space would be saved by building high rise buildings and purely having those as dwellings, instead of typical houses, as an example. Or building in places of vast nothingness from scratch, with the aim of creating new areas of mass population.

 

[Shevek]

The reason why the Earth is overpopulated is not because of a lack of space (the Earth can hold several times the current global population in terms of mere space) - it is the damaging effect that humans have on the environment that is the issue with population growth.

If you look at how many people live in a place like the UK, or Japan, both of which have incredibly small geographical areas relative to their population sizes and then look at the populations and geographical areas of countries such as the US - there is room for billions more people globally, if only humans were smart enough to plan new cities and such in a compact, rather than a stretched out way.

Just imagine how much space would be saved by building high rise buildings and purely having those as dwellings, instead of typical houses, as an example. Or building in places of vast nothingness from scratch, with the aim of creating new areas of mass population.

Urban sprawl is not the big ecological problem with our population, it is that to feed it we have taken chainsaws to almost all the wilderness, and then farmed it using poisons instead of cultivation. Humans and domestic animals outweigh all the wild species combined by 5:1, and whole species are going extinct every day. Even insects are becoming rare.
We could support a population of ten billion people and still leave half the land to nature if we would just give up the health food of the Stone Age - meat. With trade and preservation, we can feed ourselves much better on ten times less land. Vegans are over-represented at the Olympics, and under-represented in hospitals and morgues. Rather than chemical farming, we now have the knowledge to produce more, and much healthier food in an organic permaculture. Millions of small robots can tend each plant perfectly.

 

[cooljethro]

Yep, meat eating contributes to much environmental damage and land usage. I am flexitarian myself, but hope to go fully vegetarian some day. I'm not sure I could go full vegan though, but it is definitely something to work toward for humanity in general.

 

[Shevek]

Yep, meat eating contributes to much environmental damage and land usage. I am flexitarian myself, but hope to go fully vegetarian some day. I'm not sure I could go full vegan though, but it is definitely something to work toward for humanity in general.

I'm utterly baffled at people having difficulty with this, unless they don't have a kitchen or healthy restaurants available. To me, McDonald's looks like a bizarre, ghoulish funeral for abused, abandoned pets, for all domestic animals make fine pets if you have the room and the attention for them.

 

[cooljethro]

Probably because a lot of people are raised by their parents on meat and then sometimes don't like a wide enough variety of vegetables to make a vegan diet seem appealing, I guess?

I think if there were more tasty and satisfying meat replacements that you could buy out in restaurants especially, people would be more inclined to buy them.

Also, vegetarian or vegan options often carry a premium price tag which is difficult for some people. A McPlant burger at McDonald's is something like three times the price of a popular meat option - sometimes nearly four times the amount, depending on which meat burger.

 

[cooljethro]

Also, some people cannot cook well, or don't have the sufficient motivation to maintain a fully vegan diet, even if they desire to do that.

 

[Shevek]

Probably because a lot of people are raised by their parents on meat and then sometimes don't like a wide enough variety of vegetables to make a vegan diet seem appealing, I guess?

I think if there were more tasty and satisfying meat replacements that you could buy out in restaurants especially, people would be more inclined to buy them.

Also, vegetarian or vegan options often carry a premium price tag which is difficult for some people. A McPlant burger at McDonald's is something like three times the price of a popular meat option - sometimes nearly four times the amount, depending on which meat burger.

"Vegetarian" comes from vegetation in general, not the standard vegetables. The core of the nutrition is in grains and beans, and there are hundreds of savory ways to prepare tasty combinations. Burger places don't know them, and trying to provide a vegetarian option is costly in that environment.

If you try to emulate an omnivorous meal, you wind up with high costs and unhealthy processing. Starting over with one of the traditional vegan recipe books produces better results and big savings in money as well as ecological footprint.

I grew up on a beef farm, and so when I moved away, I knew what was in the cheap packages I was buying. So, on a whim, I decided to just find out what meals were like without meat. I never had a single craving for it in over five decades.

 

[cooljethro]

I'm glad you have managed to go vegan in any case. I think that is commendable.

 

[Shevek]

I'm glad you have managed to go vegan in any case. I think that is commendable.

I don't think it is commendable at all. It was all easy and attractive, not difficult. I can easily prepare my favourite dishes with a hot plate and access to a bathroom sink. Costs are low. I am shocked at all the stories about poor digestion from fast food.