Old mATX Form Factor v. New mATX Form Factor

[Judge]

O-M-G. I just noticed that the existing mATX form factor of this computer's motherboard is different than present mATX motherboards. A difference in terms of board width, and particularly two more holes in the motherboard for additional brass standoffs. Note the standoff points circled in red:

Old Motherboard mATX Form Factor:

New Motherboard mATX Form Factor:

Looks like I can't use my existing Silverstone TJ08-E case as it only accommodates the old mATX form factor. The only "Plan B" I can think of would be to purchase a new motherboard that is even smaller- like a Mini ITX form factor. Not sure If I'd want to try. It's not a form factor I particularly like.

For as many computers as I have built over the years, this era is producing the most hurdles to getting it right. So many more complex things to contemplate than before.

Sure glad I noticed this before ordering the new motherboard! Same height, but much wider. Ugh. Looks like going back to the drawing board over potential new computer builds.

 

[Judge]

Hazah! The standard Micro ATX form factor is in fact, 9.6" x 9.6'.

My existing motherboard is 9.6" x 6.9". That's when I suddenly realized that I needed to take a peek into my computer to exam the plate that the motherboard and standoffs are connected to. Took about two seconds to see that the extra standoffs for 9.6 x 9.6 motherboards are right there.

I circled them in red. Weird now to realize just how small this existing motherboard really is. In the picture below you can hardly even see the motherboard behind the CPU cooler and video card. The good news is that I have both the standoffs and the space to replace this with a new and wider motherboard, that will be in accordance with the standard 9.6" x 9.6" form factor.

So, after a wasted day I can get back on plan. To withdraw certain components from this computer and add them back into my original Cooler Master ATX case I once used to run Windows 7 about a million years ago. In the meantime I'll be ordering new parts to upgrade the Silverstone case to more modern standards.

It's no illusion. The motherboard really is inverted so all the major components are upside down. Method to the madness of such a small case that can maintain positive airflow with an enormous front fan and smaller rear fan.

 

[Outdated]

mATX is a confusing acronym:
micro ATX
mini ATX
midi ATX
maxi ATX

The older board looks like a mini. Also note the power requirements on the newer board, as in the plug fittings. 8+4 pin power for the processor. Another thing a lot of people forget to check is that you physically have enough space for your graphics card.

 

[Judge]

mATX is a confusing acronym:
micro ATX
mini ATX
midi ATX
maxi ATX

The older board looks like a mini. Also note the power requirements on the newer board, as in the plug fittings. 8+4 pin power for the processor. Another thing a lot of people forget to check is that you physically have enough space for your graphics card.

The cpu connector on that board is only four pins. But technically it's still considered to be an mATX according to Asus. The next board will have eight pins. Maybe even twelve.

Though I will continue to use my old Nvidia GTX 1660Ti video card with an 8-pin connector to my Corsair 650 watt semi-modular power supply. Sufficient power for this system, but as you point out it's also sufficiently small to fit well inside and still have plenty of air for cooling. I plan on using an i5 12400 cpu, adequate but not obnoxiously hot to run in this small space. I'm trying to think thermodynamics first and foremost, but if I have to, I can always get a more modern case with better airflow. But I still don't have gaming in mind which can jump the temps into the 70s and 80s if things are running properly. Right now the cpu temp is only 30c. As far as memory goes, it will be doubled with DDR4 3200Mhz RAM. Not contemplating overclocking anything.

The one real drawback with this unusual case is that has no modern sense of cable management. For now I'll continue using an IcyDock device to make my SSDs removable, so I can continue to hop Linux distros beyond just two. If I do finally settle on one, then I'll transition to NVMe drives and dual boot them.

 

[Outdated]

I plan on using an i5 12400 cpu, adequate but not obnoxiously hot to run in this small space.

This sounds like more than your normal requirements for your usage, but that's a good thing. It means it will likely never have to work hard and therefore never generate a great deal of heat.

In my climate that's also a major consideration with cars, if it's underpowered then I guarantee you'll have overheating problems travelling through the red centre.

And if you're not in to gaming then very likely the built in graphics in that cpu might be all you need, although this will increase the load on the cpu and therefore increase the temperature.

 

[Judge]

This sounds like more than your normal requirements for your usage, but that's a good thing. It means it will likely never have to work hard and therefore never generate a great deal of heat.

Yep. I'm always quite deliberate about having a little more power than I contemplate. Just to be on the safe side.

And if you're not in to gaming then very likely the built in graphics in that cpu might be all you need, although this will increase the load on the cpu and therefore increase the temperature.

Another aspect of "covering my bases". I always prefer a cpu with graphic capabilities, even if it's unlikely I'll ever use it. But if you need to do troubleshooting, it can come in handy. Not to mention how using proprietary video drivers in Linux can involve some precarious results. When it pays to be able to fall back on integrated video within a cpu using open source drivers.

Though it continues to amaze me how many gamers out there don't have the biggest and baddest video cards, and are still running games at 1920 x 1080 resolution. I have no interest in going any higher than that, whether I occasionally play a game or not.

 

[Outdated]

Though it continues to amaze me how many gamers out there don't have the biggest and baddest video cards, and are still running games at 1920 x 1080 resolution. I have no interest in going any higher than that, whether I occasionally play a game or not.

I do have a big bad boy for a video card and I still play games at 1080p, the same as you, I don't see the point of any higher resolution than that. At 1080p my graphics card is way over the top and never has to work hard so it never gets hot.

 

[Judge]

I do have a big bad boy for a video card and I still play games at 1080p, the same as you, I don't see the point of any higher resolution than that. At 1080p my graphics card is way over the top and never has to work hard so it never gets hot.

Exactly. It's the smart play.

One that eludes so many computer users who lust after the highest frame rates achievable. Even if and when it causes your CPU to throttle back at around 90C. A very bad sign IMO. When your computer is telling you it's forced to slow down to cool down and prevent your hardware from burning out.

Small wonder people like you and I are far more likely to always follow thermodynamic concerns of this nature. It's why I am very deliberate about the CPU I want to purchase for my next PC build. An i5-12400k, with a base power of 65 watts, and maximum turbo power of 117 watts. So that the most routine use of my computer starts out at 65 watts, rather than to default to double that amount, as is the case of virtually all other Intel CPUs from i5 to i9. Particularly all 13th and 14 gen processors.

Sometimes I view the industry as being "self-destructive", with the intent of shortening the life of all personal computers based on overly high temperatures. What better way to force users to upgrade ever more frequently? A concern particularly aimed at both gamers and laptop users.

Major reasons for we who choose to build our own systems to make them less susceptible to damaging heat concerns. Where technical obsolescence is the only thing to really bring our systems down, rather than electronic or mechanical failure.

When it comes to technical obsolescence I'm acutely aware of it, not only based on Microsoft's Windows 11 hardware requirements, but also their increasing comments about having sufficient memory to handle upcoming AI requirements incorporated into the next generation of many operating systems. When 8 GB of RAM won't work at all, and 16GB may be barely sufficient. Whatever it takes to force users to spend more money for more resources, just to operate their computers on a nominal basis. An old story for those of us who have worked in the software industry behind closed doors in Silicon Valley. Something most courts simply refer to as "collusion". Yet the process goes on and on, from one decade to the next.

 

[Outdated]

One that eludes so many computer users who lust after the highest frame rates achievable.

It's a side of human nature that disgusts me, but most people are this way. They can't really see those higher frame rates, very few of us can notice anything quicker than 60 frames/second. They can't see much difference with the higher resolution either. All they care about is seeing the high numbers in their specs and using that to say "See! I'm better than you!". Wankers.

A sociology experiment I noticed when I was a kid. Take half a loaf of bread down to the chook yard but only throw one crust in. The chooks will start fighting over that single crust, chasing each other around. Once that starts throw the rest of the loaf in. Most of the chooks will ignore all that bread and instead will still keep chasing each other around over that original piece of crust.

A lot of people don't understand how electronics wear out. Molecular transfer. As electrons jump from one molecule to the next they cause a lot of excitement and every now and then a whole molecule will transfer instead of just the electrons. That's how electroplating works. As a circuit warms up the transfer of whole molecules increases.

So as you push as many electrons as you can through a very narrow circuit bit's of that circuit start transferring themselves further and further downstream. Part of the circuit becomes thinner, and less able to carry as much power and more prone to getting hot, the transfer of whole molecules speeds up as well. Eventually there's not enough circuit left to carry enough power for components to do their job.

Just letting your circuits get too warm on a regular basis will dramatically speed up this process, although it happens at all times even under normal circumstances. If you look after your computer by never letting it get hot it will last for many years but if it's getting too warm on a regular basis you'll be lucky to get 3 years out of it.

And that's why the idea of a "gaming" laptop is ridiculous. Laptops can't dump heat quickly enough to start with, start gaming on them and they'll burn out pretty quick. They'll throttle themselves back when they start getting warm which means they're no good for gaming anyway, but if they're getting warm enough to throttle themselves back then they're not going to last very long.