NT and Aspie Communication

[KassieMac]

I think like all traits on the spectrum, this is something that doesn't apply to all whether they are male or female; but this is one of the traits I have.

To be bluntly honest, the only people in my life that I have known for longer than 5 years are family. The group I have known for 5 years are a bit unique, and I have considered moving on from that group many times.

I find it very hard to connect with people, and when I do, there is normally an element of control that creeps into the relationship over time which inevitably drives me to walk away. I don't understand what it is about me that seems to draw this out of the nicest of people, but they tend to treat me like I am in need of a parent, and then I feel pressured to follow their advice. I know they are well meaning, but I REALLY don't like this sort of pressure. It's one of the fastest ways to get me offside and as I don't like confrontation, I just withdraw.

Don't doubt though that the friendship was real while it lasted. I would do almost anything for the people I consider friends.

I've had many, many experiences like that. Where we seem to start out on equal footing but this element of control creeps in ... you've worded it far better than I ever could. I suspect that it's our Aspie nature that makes people feel either that we need to be taken care of or that we should listen to them and do as they say ... but it's very much like a parent-role, like you said.

What's happened with me is when I notice this imbalance, I've tried to discuss it but the friend always manages to dismiss me or avoid the topic ... and I suspect they probably don't even realize they're doing it. So I'll make several attempts, but eventually the last straw comes around and I'm done. If you ask that (former) friend, they would probably say that it came out of the blue and they had no warning, and that nothing had changed. My stance is "I've tried to talk with you many, many times about my concerns, about how you approach me, but nothing changed." I have always been very loyal and giving to my close friends, but once my eyes are opened to the fact that they don't value me equally ... it's over, and I can't go back, because I no longer trust them. I feel deceived and betrayed, and it hurts deeply. If this is what's happening ... it may look like it's "without a second thought" but they may be being careful to hide just how much they've thought about it, and how hurt they are.

In all my years of observing people and their complex relationships, I've never seen a relationship suffer from too much communication ... but I've seen many end badly because of too little.

 

[KassieMac]

I actually have the opposite problem, in that I apologize far too much. I'm trying to cut down on it, honestly, because I think I'm doing myself a disservice by apologizing when somebody else knocks into me or has some other bloopers. I'm just that afraid of confrontation.

Of course, it could also be a British thing.

Not necessarily. I did that for about half of my life, because my dysfunctional parents made it clear that everything was my fault, regardless of circumstances. When I finally realized just how messed up they were, I made a point to do my best to see things clearly and act appropriately. I apologize when I realize I've done wrong, but I won't ask for apologies ... if I have to ask for it, then it's not sincere. If I've proven to someone that they've done me wrong and they defend their actions ... and continue to behave the same way ... I'm done. Time to walk away.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Nope I don't worry about that at all. And if she does, so be it.

I have a question, King Oni. The above statement is a little troubling to me. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you in touch with your feelings? It sounds like you can take people or leave them and it won't affect you. I know you mentioned that you live with your parents, but don't spend much time with them. Can you tell me what your feelings are for your parents and gf? Would it bother you if they were gone tomorrow? (I ask because for me "a feeler" it seems kind of a cold way to go through life and I can't seem to grasp that mentality.). And do other Aspies feel (or think) this way?

 

[Rudy Schmidt]

I have a question, King Oni. The above statement is a little troubling to me. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you in touch with your feelings? It sounds like you can take people or leave them and it won't affect you. I know you mentioned that you live with your parents, but don't spend much time with them. Can you tell me what your feelings are for your parents and gf? Would it bother you if they were gone tomorrow? (I ask because for me "a feeler" it seems kind of a cold way to go through life and I can't seem to grasp that mentality.). And do other Aspies feel (or think) this way?

I can only speak for myself, but here goes. I have my little "inner circle" of three people, two of whom (my parents) live thousands of miles away, and so I've only seen them once in about four years. In my current situation, I feel very close to my wife (the third "circle" member), and I'm never very far from her. She seems to fly underneath my Aspie Radar in that I don't see her the same way I see everyone else - I can be in the same room as her, but still be totally separate from her and not have to wear my Normal Mask.

Aside from my wife, however, I don't feel a connection with anybody else to that extent. I like many of the people I come into contact with, and many of them have come and gone, sometimes died, occasionally violently, and I don't feel much because I don't have a particularly strong bond with any of them. Once I'm used to somebody, I like them to stick around and not be replaced with new, unfamiliar people, because it's easier to interact with them. However, once they're gone, that's it.

I've always been like that. When I moved out here, I pretty much left my whole family behind. Actually, I DID leave them all behind. And I miss them, as in, I wish I could be more a part of their lives.

I don't really know what I mean. My whole personality's been jumbled up lately. I'm not sure what I think of anything right now. :/ Don't get me wrong, I'm not after sympathy or anything - I'm fine - but since I discovered I was on the scale, I've been very unsure of what to think, or which of my thoughts are valid and which seem to be tricks from my own mind. Maybe this is stuff I should post in another thread.

Long story short, outside my circle, I don't care for other people. Conversations are usually boring and sometimes I just want to do something menial by myself without having to smile and answer questions.

Sorry for all that verbal diarrhea . :/ I'm usually a very normal - if long-winded - person.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Is your wife an Aspie or an NT? Wait, I think I read her post that she's an NT, right?
I feel for you and what you're going through. I said it troubles me because if I was with someone who wasn't able to really have "feelings" and care for me I would wonder why am I even there - if I could actually be gone and life went on the next day as usual, it would seem like my presence didn't make one bit of difference and I might as well not have even existed during the time I was with them- I was just filling a space that anyone or maybe no one could have filled. Do you understand what I'm saying? To me, it seems like a cold existence, but maybe it could also be good because they don't feel loss, it seems.
What does it take for you to form a permanent bond with someone?

 

[Rudy Schmidt]

Is your wife an Aspie or an NT?

I probably should've mentioned that she's an NT. It took her a while to get used to my need for space, but she's been very understanding (and infinitely patient) about it. She actually recently opened an account here (under Rachel Roth), in an attempt to gain a better understanding of AS.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I can only speak for myself, but here goes. I have my little "inner circle" of three people, two of whom (my parents) live thousands of miles away, and so I've only seen them once in about four years. In my current situation, I feel very close to my wife (the third "circle" member), and I'm never very far from her. She seems to fly underneath my Aspie Radar in that I don't see her the same way I see everyone else - I can be in the same room as her, but still be totally separate from her and not have to wear my Normal Mask.

Aside from my wife, however, I don't feel a connection with anybody else to that extent. I like many of the people I come into contact with, and many of them have come and gone, sometimes died, occasionally violently, and I don't feel much because I don't have a particularly strong bond with any of them. Once I'm used to somebody, I like them to stick around and not be replaced with new, unfamiliar people, because it's easier to interact with them. However, once they're gone, that's it.

I've always been like that. When I moved out here, I pretty much left my whole family behind. Actually, I DID leave them all behind. And I miss them, as in, I wish I could be more a part of their lives.

I don't really know what I mean. My whole personality's been jumbled up lately. I'm not sure what I think of anything right now. :/ Don't get me wrong, I'm not after sympathy or anything - I'm fine - but since I discovered I was on the scale, I've been very unsure of what to think, or which of my thoughts are valid and which seem to be tricks from my own mind. Maybe this is stuff I should post in another thread.

Long story short, outside my circle, I don't care for other people. Conversations are usually boring and sometimes I just want to do something menial by myself without having to smile and answer questions.

Sorry for all that verbal diarrhea . :/ I'm usually a very normal - if long-winded - person.

I probably should've mentioned that she's an NT. It took her a while to get used to my need for space, but she's been very understanding (and infinitely patient) about it. She actually recently opened an account here (under Rachel Roth), in an attempt to gain a better understanding of AS.

I added more to my previous post.

 

[Rudy Schmidt]

I added more to my previous post.

To form the permanent bond - I think it's a mutual understanding. The ability to act totally relaxed and not have to put on a mask is comforting. Having her to talk to and to understand my feelings is also nice and reassuring. My head is a bit of a jumbled mess right now. I used to see my mind as a large house, perfectly organized. I named the different aspects of myself - both good and bad - and kept tabs on them. I studied myself and my strengths and weaknesses and knew myself inside out. But now I feel like the house is chaotic and untidy and I don't know what or where anything is any more. I feel like all this time I've been thinking I'm like everyone else but it's all backwards. I don't know which of my known facts about myself were true and which were things I only thought I knew.

I realise I'm starting to speak in total gibberish. :/ Maybe another week or two and ill have my own mind back. I always thought I was normal, just different. Now I don't know what to believe, because the only framework I have to compare myself to was built using incorrect specifications.

Sorry to go on a tangent! The permanent bond is pretty special. I have a morbid fear of losing her, to the point where sometimes I'll panic if I think about it. I think if it happened I'd completely withdraw.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

To form the permanent bond - I think it's a mutual understanding. The ability to act totally relaxed and not have to put on a mask is comforting. Having her to talk to and to understand my feelings is also nice and reassuring. My head is a bit of a jumbled mess right now. I used to see my mind as a large house, perfectly organized. I named the different aspects of myself - both good and bad - and kept tabs on them. I studied myself and my strengths and weaknesses and knew myself inside out. But now I feel like the house is chaotic and untidy and I don't know what or where anything is any more. I feel like all this time I've been thinking I'm like everyone else but it's all backwards. I don't know which of my known facts about myself were true and which were things I only thought I knew.

I realise I'm starting to speak in total gibberish. :/ Maybe another week or two and ill have my own mind back. I always thought I was normal, just different. Now I don't know what to believe, because the only framework I have to compare myself to was built using incorrect specifications.

Sorry to go on a tangent! The permanent bond is pretty special. I have a morbid fear of losing her, to the point where sometimes I'll panic if I think about it. I think if it happened I'd completely withdraw.

It's sounds like your wife is your best friend and you don't need anyone else is all. King Oni sounds a little bit more on the carefree side of things.
Before your wife were you close to your Ma and Pa too?

You two came to the right place. I'm hoping your wife can chime in on the thread too and give another NT perspective.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I can't speak for others, but for me, the answer would be, "Yes." It appears cold, but my brain works differently when it comes to feelings. It's not that I'm cold and unfeeling, but rather my emotional feelings are different from others. From what I've read, Stonewall Jackson was very much the same way. There has been speculation about him being an Aspie.

So you don't feel any emotional ties to people - to family, past gf, or friends?

 

[Christy]

I find some (most actually) people suck energy from me by being in their vicinity. There are very few people that don't do this to me, but being around my partner seems to give me energy, or at the least not take it away. Forming "bonds" is a funny one for me as I don't really realise I've done it usually until they are taken away, and then I miss them. But at the time the friendship (or more) just exists.

My sister lives an hour up the road from me, yet I haven't spent one on one time with her in 6 months. I didn't realise I missed this until she invited me to go shopping with her last weekend and I couldn't believe how excited I was.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I find some (most actually) people suck energy from me by being in their vicinity. There are very few people that don't do this to me, but being around my partner seems to give me energy, or at the least not take it away. Forming "bonds" is a funny one for me as I don't really realise I've done it usually until they are taken away, and then I miss them. But at the time the friendship (or more) just exists.

My sister lives an hour up the road from me, yet I haven't spent one on one time with her in 6 months. I didn't realise I missed this until she invited me to go shopping with her last weekend and I couldn't believe how excited I was.

I'm the same with my brother. We actually live in the same condoplex (he lives right around the corner.) I haven't seen or talked to him going on 5 months now. I don't have any real feelings for him at all - I guess I would say I'm indifferent. He's pretty much like a stranger. If something happened to him tomorrow (God forbid) I would have to try to conjure up some feelings of some sort. Just thinking about him now, I feel nothing. For me, if people I care about distance themselves and I don't have a lot of contact with them, I start losing any of the feelings that I had for them before. An Aspie told me for them it was like "out of sight out of mind." That sounds like me. But whoever is in my life (friends or family) are extremely important to me and I pretty much close anyone else out.

 

[King_Oni]

I have a question, King Oni. The above statement is a little troubling to me. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you in touch with your feelings? It sounds like you can take people or leave them and it won't affect you. I know you mentioned that you live with your parents, but don't spend much time with them. Can you tell me what your feelings are for your parents and gf? Would it bother you if they were gone tomorrow? (I ask because for me "a feeler" it seems kind of a cold way to go through life and I can't seem to grasp that mentality.). And do other Aspies feel (or think) this way?

Perhaps I'm just in touch with different kind of feelings rather than what some people perceive. I'm not this 100% rational person who just acts on the most viable thing because that's what some number crunching tells me.

At times I act on impulse, and that's something that involves feelings and emotion more than being rational.

As for feelings about my parents and girlfriend; for me it would mostly be a change in situation that would bother me. Though I can't really say if it won't affect me. My parents, my girlfriend or friends never really left me in that sense. So it's hard for me to gauge.

On the other hand; I have broken up with someone a few years back and I was close with her. Considering I was with her for over 8 years (and known her for about 14 before I even was with her), it didn't faze me too much. Yes, it bothered me a bit and I shed a few tears... and those were actually the last tears I've shed in the last 5 years over something. Sometimes random thoughts of her pop up in my mind, perhaps thinking about the fun times I had with her, rather than her being in my life as someone with whom I got an emotional bond. Perhaps it's more comparable to reminiscing about the good times you had with a lost friend, though mostly focusing on the activities rather than the notion of an emotional bond. Going back to her and my relationship with her, rationale kicks in from time and time and I'm quite happy to say "good riddance". That usually puts a damper on emotions.

I don't know if other aspies feel this way. I think that's best answered by people on this forum. By being around here for almost 3 years, I know I'm not the aspie blueprint so to speak.

For me personally, feelings just seem like a burden. They're not needed everywhere yet they rear their head whenever they feel like it. It doesn't mean that one should take all feeling out. But if I could, I'd be happy to schedule feelings in my day, rather than have them show up whenever they want to.

That all said, feelings go a long way. Where there is sadness there is happiness as well. And what if I'm smiling or laughing. Those are feelings and I can't say I never laugh (smiling as a facial expression might be different one). So I doubt I'm devoid of emotion... perhaps I just have a different way of experiencing and dealing with them.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Another Aspie question:
I woke up and was thinking of something this morning - the conversations that I have with my NT friends and the conversations that I have with my Aspie friend. I was wondering when Aspies are talking to their friends or family, what do they consider to be relevant information to tell them?

When I talk to my NT friend Mary or Julia or my Ma, we talk about a lot of different things happening in our lives. These things can be little things like 'this happened at work today' to 'I heard this on the news' to 'I finally got the laundry done and the car washed' or big things like 'I got into a car accident hitting a deer'. Whatever it is I am discussing with my NT friends, we try to cover most everything happening in our lives and then each time we speak we will pick up from that point - kinda like an ongoing story.

With my Aspie friend, even though we communicate quite often it seems that I never really know what is going on in his life. Example: like when I was needing the address for the throw and he told me he didn't know what address he would be at. I was surprised that he didn't tell me that he was going to be moving. Moving is one of the "biggies" in life, I think. What I'm getting at is that he pretty much knows what is happening with me from day to day, but with him big gaps of his life are missing for me. I know the stuff that we have talked about that are important to him, such as school, but I also have to ask him how those things are going - he does not "volunteer" any information (in NT land if someone doesn't mention something then they don't want to talk about it and it's bad manners to bring it up). And if I ask him about all these things, it feels like I'm giving him the third degree. My NTness is wondering 'does he want to talk about these things and he just doesn't know how to bring them up?' I would like to know what happens in his life from day to day - how do I do that though?

 

[KassieMac]

Another Aspie question:
I woke up and was thinking of something this morning - the conversations that I have with my NT friends and the conversations that I have with my Aspie friend. I was wondering when Aspies are talking to their friends or family, what do they consider to be relevant information to tell them?

When I talk to my NT friend Mary or Julia or my Ma, we talk about a lot of different things happening in our lives. These things can be little things like 'this happened at work today' to 'I heard this on the news' to 'I finally got the laundry done and the car washed' or big things like 'I got into a car accident hitting a deer'. Whatever it is I am discussing with my NT friends, we try to cover most everything happening in our lives and then each time we speak we will pick up from that point - kinda like an ongoing story.

With my Aspie friend, even though we communicate quite often it seems that I never really know what is going on in his life. Example: like when I was needing the address for the throw and he told me he didn't know what address he would be at. I was surprised that he didn't tell me that he was going to be moving. Moving is one of the "biggies" in life, I think. What I'm getting at is that he pretty much knows what is happening with me from day to day, but with him big gaps of his life are missing for me. I know the stuff that we have talked about that are important to him, such as school, but I also have to ask him how those things are going - he does not "volunteer" any information (in NT land if someone doesn't mention something then they don't want to talk about it and it's bad manners to bring it up). And if I ask him about all these things, it feels like I'm giving him the third degree. My NTness is wondering 'does he want to talk about these things and he just doesn't know how to bring them up?' I would like to know what happens in his life from day to day - how do I do that though?

I tend to think about what might be interesting and/or relevant to the other person, not just whatever I want to talk about. Where I live physically isn't relevant to anyone I know online. When it became relevant to you, he told you. But to be questioned about every detail of my life does feel like I'm being interrogated ... possibly because people too often use my answers as excuses to tell me what I'm doing wrong or give unwanted advice (yes, I'm talking about my mother again -- sorry). I'm not saying that's what you do, or even that it's what he feels ... but to me it's a sore spot due to too many people in my past turning everything I say against me. Because of that sore spot, it would take longer than 'normal' for me to open up to a new friend with such details, but in time trust can be built. Again, not necessarily true for all Aspies, just how I've learned to protect myself due to past experiences. Give him time ... and I hope this perspective helps.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I tend to think about what might be interesting and/or relevant to the other person, not just whatever I want to talk about. Where I live physically isn't relevant to anyone I know online. When it became relevant to you, he told you. But to be questioned about every detail of my life does feel like I'm being interrogated ... possibly because people too often use my answers as excuses to tell me what I'm doing wrong or give unwanted advice (yes, I'm talking about my mother again -- sorry). I'm not saying that's what you do, or even that it's what he feels ... but to me it's a sore spot due to too many people in my past turning everything I say against me. Because of that sore spot, it would take longer than 'normal' for me to open up to a new friend with such details, but in time trust can be built. Again, not necessarily true for all Aspies, just how I've learned to protect myself due to past experiences. Give him time ... and I hope this perspective helps.

I'm just wondering (like some Aspies have posted) if he might have difficulty starting a conversation and knowing what to talk about. I know Aspies say they don't like small talk. I usually have to keep the conversation going (which I'm used to now) and I'll ask if there's anything he wants to talk about (which he usually says 'no' ). It's just hard to keep conversations going at times. And if what I consider to be "big things" are happening in his life it gets to feel like I don't really know him.

PS: Sorry you didn't have a nice mama. My Ma is very important to me.

 

[KassieMac]

I'm just wondering (like some Aspies have posted) if he might have difficulty starting a conversation and knowing what to talk about. I know Aspies say they don't like small talk. I usually have to keep the conversation going (which I'm used to now) and I'll ask if there's anything he wants to talk about (which he usually says 'no' ). It's just hard to keep conversations going at times. And if what I consider to be "big things" are happening in his life it gets to feel like I don't really know him.

PS: Sorry you didn't have a nice mama. My Ma is very important to me.

Thanks.

The only thing I can recommend is to focus on common interests. If you hear something that you know he's interested in, that's a great conversation. I have people I talk tech with, but they're not into Sleepy Hollow. There's people I chat about Sherlock Holmes with, but they might not be interested in my cat pictures. To me it's important that both people are interested in the topic ... I feel awkward talking when the other person doesn't seem interested (this would happen with my sister -- I know she was trying to be nice, but I could tell that she wasn't really interested in the topic). On the other hand, one of my techie friends keeps pushing me to watch shows that I'm just not interested in, so I try to steer the conversation back to tech. I tried watching Breaking Bad for her, but I just couldn't ... it was too painful.

Also, it seems I get 'conversation fatigue' sooner than the NTs I know ... I start to crave time alone, it's just the way I am, and it doesn't necessarily reflect on the other person.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ereth]

I know this is off-topic, but:

I have people I talk tech with, but they're not into Sleepy Hollow. There's people I chat about Sherlock Holmes with, but they might not be interested in my cat pictures.

I am very much interested in these things.

 

[Rudy Schmidt]

Thanks.

The only thing I can recommend is to focus on common interests. If you hear something that you know he's interested in, that's a great conversation. I have people I talk tech with, but they're not into Sleepy Hollow. There's people I chat about Sherlock Holmes with, but they might not be interested in my cat pictures. To me it's important that both people are interested in the topic ... I feel awkward talking when the other person doesn't seem interested (this would happen with my sister -- I know she was trying to be nice, but I could tell that she wasn't really interested in the topic). On the other hand, one of my techie friends keeps pushing me to watch shows that I'm just not interested in, so I try to steer the conversation back to tech. I tried watching Breaking Bad for her, but I just couldn't ... it was too painful.

Also, it seems I get 'conversation fatigue' sooner than the NTs I know ... I start to crave time alone, it's just the way I am, and it doesn't necessarily reflect on the other person.

Hope this helps.

Your conversational philosophy is a lot like mine. That's a relief - I was thinking I was the odd one out.

I don't always talk to people because often times they talk about things I have no interest in, or that actually make me a little uncomfortable or angry. Reactions inside my head can range from "this again? Bleh, I don't care." To "If you DON'T STOP talking in the next MINUTE I'm going to rip my eyes out and THROW them at you JUST TO MAKE YOU SHUT UP!!!"

However, I've become so good at acting that I can usually feign interest convincingly (although thinking of it, even then I seem to use "stock" responses that seem appropriate). I know I shouldn't be passive aggressive, but if you tell people the truth about your feelings, they want to interrogate you and discuss them or just write you off as rude, and it's so much easier to nod your head and agree. Anything for a quiet life. :/

Hypocritically, if I get onto one of the things I like talking about, I'll go on a mini rant/lecture about it whether they like it or not. xD

I don't feel like I lack social SKILLS - I can act as normally as any NT, and am less shy than most, especially since I got married (and was no longer auditioning women as potential mates to impress) - I'm just lack social ENTHUSIASM. Being alone is a wonderful, rare, and spiritually refreshing occasion I wish I could do everyday.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I have another Aspie question after reading another thread.

I haven't met my Aspie friend, but he's very dear to me and is just as important as my two other NT friends. What I'm not understanding is why some Aspies feel like they can't tell their friends and family that they have Aspergers. I would think there would only be positives - especially where communication is concerned. If they stopped being your friend just for that reason, they aren't a real friend.