Vanadium50
Well-Known Member
I would classify the way I turn women off into two categories. One, is when due to Asperger I make some social faux passes that I am unaware of, and the other one is when I get angry at the situations I am at and then I deliberately hurt people in order to use them as a punching bags. Naturally, being punished for the former would hurt a lot more than being punished for the latter, because of the sense of unfairness that goes with it -- BUT .... BUT ... the women found a way to TURN the latter INTO the former, so that my being punished would hurt just as much. They did it by utilizing one of the following techniques:
1. Delayed response: they will pretend they haven't noticed anything. Then, few days later, they will show their disinterest in some other way (ranging from being disracted by video games when I talk all the way to angry voice without explanation) and keep me wondering what is going on without any real explanation for a good while and then, once I been wondering long enough, finally tell me that actually they were mad at something I did few days ago, which wouldn't have occurred to me since I was assuming it was done and over with, and then when they finally do tell me and I try to ask for forgiveness they are like "nope its too late"
2. Instead of blaming me for the bad behavior -- which is my choice -- they insinuate that this is only a symptom of me being bad as a person, over which I have no choice of. This ranges from telling me how what I have done implies that I will be even worse if they were to date me (thus implying I have no control over my behavior to change it to the better) all the way to blaming themselves for not listening to their instincts at the very begining (thus instead of blaming me for what I have control over -- my bad behavior -- blaming me for what I have no control over at all -- the instincts that I produced -- and then saying how due to said instincts I was "predestined" to misbehave and thus implying I can never become a better person no matter how much I want to)
3. Giving me false hope. One example of this is to say that because of bad behavior she won't date me "at the moment", but then later on turning "Not at the moment" into "never" without any explanation. Thus the "never" part is no longer a punishment for bad behavior itself; instead, it is a punishment for my being "desperate" enough to grab into the hope I was given in "not at the moment" phrase. Or a different example is telling me, with big smile in the face, that she likes me and it is "only" beause I "was" (past tense) "mean" that she walked away (again past tense). Given past tense, and given the smile on her face, I thought the issue was over and now she was finally willing to give me a chance, in fact she was joking around about my having been mean in the past, so she isn't hurt "any more". But then all of a sudden it turns out she was talking about her PRESENT decision not to date me AND was stickign to her guns about it, quite strongly in fact. Why is that? Is it because she perceived me as desperate for believing her optimistic message? Or is it because I didn't quite make it in her "flirt game" ("mean" iwth a smile at her face = flirting; hte latter in conjunction with deciding not to talk to me = "bad at flirt game" = "weak").
4. The girl blames me for feeling like a victim. But what she misses is that feeling something is NOT an attempt to manipulate: I don't have a choice over what I feel any more than I have a choice of seeing the sky is blue! The feeling of victimhood is NOT a nice feeling, I would have gotten rid of that feeling in a second IF I had a choice what to feel, but I don't! So I am"weak" for not being able to get rid of that feeling of victimhood, and then the girl blames me for being weak.
5. Due to my bad past behavior, HER FRIENDS are the ones not liking me, which somehow adds to the problem: thus I am "converted" from someone "mean" (aka jerk) to someone "unpopular" (aka nice guy).
One thing I am wondering about is whether the girls do that on purpose since they know they will hurt me much more this way. I mean I admit, yes, at the time when I ORIGINALLY hurt them, I did it on purpose, since I was trying to use them as punching bags to displace my anger at someone else. But that time when I did it on purpose was gone, and then when I no longer was in a bad mood only then the girls would come back with the tricks described above. Maybe its because they know that if they were to react in immediate context I won't be hurt because the immediate reaction is something I was looking for, and thats why they deliberately decided to react outside of immediate context so that I "would" get hurt?
Or here is another possibility: maybe what triggers that is "inconsistent" behavior in my part. As long as I am mean AND sticking to being mean, the girls perceive it as a conflict between two "strong" sides, each side is equally legitimate, thus, neither side is in a position to punish the other. But then, when stopped being mean -- and the reason I stopped has nothing to do with what happens between me and the girl in question (after all, SHE didn't have to do anything to appease me, rather it was something on my end that enabled me to stop) -- then the girl realizes that it wasn't a conflict between two "strong" parties, rather it was my being "weak" (whether "too weak to stop myself from starting the fight on the first place" or "too weak to continue the fight once its started" or "too weak to undo the consequences of my bad behavior" or whatever) so I lose her respect and thats what causes her to act that way.
Now lets tie it together to the whole nice guy vs jerk thing. One thing I read is that girls date jerks in hopes to fix them. But wait a second wouldn't jerks be "weak" since the girl can "force" them to act differently in the process of "fixing"? I guess the girl doesn't see it that way. What she sees is that the jerk is strong and has ultimate control of his behavior, and the only thing she does to "fix" him is that she "earns" his good graces, which is precisely why she feels so good about doing it: it gives her self validation to "earn" something. On the other hand, in my case, the girl didn't "earn" anything, instead I stopped my bad behavior all on my own, simply because my mind happened to move past whatever I originally wanted to use the girl as a punching bag over. True, if I were to refrain from using punching bags on the first place, she wouldn't have "earned" anything either; but in this case I wouldn't have been "giving" anything "undeserved" either: I would have simply been a good person because thats common decency, fair enough. But the moment she sees I am not sticking to common decency, THEN ONLY she perceives my nice behavior SUBSEQUENT TO temper tantrum as "undeserved gift" which causes her to see me as "weak" for giving her something undeserved.
And this also is tied together to two seemingly opposite personality traits that I have. On the one hand, I am very forgiving (well I hold grudges as you can see but thats ONLY because girls don't forgive me; IF they were to come back and forgive me I would immediately accept forgiveness, no questions asked, and thats what they won't do -- which is this whole entire post is about) on the other hand, I have misplaced reaction (this whole punching bag thing) and thirdly phrases like "thank you" are not part of my dictionary. To sum it up, its not about me being "too good" (using punching bags isn't good) nor is it about being "not good enough" (being super-forgiving IS good) nor anything else; rather its about me being "outside of social context". And being "outside of social context" is being perceived as weakness, (after all weakness is lack of skills and in this case its lack of social skills, that plus also how would I ever be good at self defense if all I ever do is re-direct anger elsewhere?) hence the contempt that I am receiving.
I remember on Christian message board I was given a warning for saying negative things against Jews. So then I stopped and instead said something negative against Buddhists, and then the mod responded "hmm can't blame Jews for anything, lets try Buddhists, but before you attack Buddhists, work on your martial skills". And this seem to sum up my problems with girls: you see, since I am so weak and don't have any fighting skills, thats why any and all times I make a remote attempt to fight (anger or whatever) they thoroughly defeat me by using the "tricks" outlined in the beginning of the post, and then I feel "beaten up". Now think of the following scenario: suppose you are in high school, and suppose there is that kid picking a fight with you, yet you are much stronger than that kid and you beat him up easily. What would you feel about that kid? On the other hand that kid is "mean" for starting a fight, on the other hand he is "weak" for having been defeated in the fight. So you have a form of contempt, and both "that kid is mean" AND "that kid is weak" are two unseparable ingredients of said contempt. If that kid was just as mean but strong enough to actually win the fight, your attitude towards that kid would have been entirely different. So what I am thinking is that the girls also engaged in "fight" with me, but instead of the tricks they teach you on how to get the person to fall on the floor, the girls have the tricks on how to make me feel inferior -- the ones I listed in the beginning of the post -- so they used those tricks and since my social skills are not nearly as good, they "beaten me up" and then their attitude towards me became the same as your attitude towards that high school kid who started a fight yet whom you beaten up easily.
Anyway, those are just my perceptions. But what is your opinion on what happened. Do you think this is in fact what girls were doing, or do you think its just my attributting my own ideas to what they were doing?
1. Delayed response: they will pretend they haven't noticed anything. Then, few days later, they will show their disinterest in some other way (ranging from being disracted by video games when I talk all the way to angry voice without explanation) and keep me wondering what is going on without any real explanation for a good while and then, once I been wondering long enough, finally tell me that actually they were mad at something I did few days ago, which wouldn't have occurred to me since I was assuming it was done and over with, and then when they finally do tell me and I try to ask for forgiveness they are like "nope its too late"
2. Instead of blaming me for the bad behavior -- which is my choice -- they insinuate that this is only a symptom of me being bad as a person, over which I have no choice of. This ranges from telling me how what I have done implies that I will be even worse if they were to date me (thus implying I have no control over my behavior to change it to the better) all the way to blaming themselves for not listening to their instincts at the very begining (thus instead of blaming me for what I have control over -- my bad behavior -- blaming me for what I have no control over at all -- the instincts that I produced -- and then saying how due to said instincts I was "predestined" to misbehave and thus implying I can never become a better person no matter how much I want to)
3. Giving me false hope. One example of this is to say that because of bad behavior she won't date me "at the moment", but then later on turning "Not at the moment" into "never" without any explanation. Thus the "never" part is no longer a punishment for bad behavior itself; instead, it is a punishment for my being "desperate" enough to grab into the hope I was given in "not at the moment" phrase. Or a different example is telling me, with big smile in the face, that she likes me and it is "only" beause I "was" (past tense) "mean" that she walked away (again past tense). Given past tense, and given the smile on her face, I thought the issue was over and now she was finally willing to give me a chance, in fact she was joking around about my having been mean in the past, so she isn't hurt "any more". But then all of a sudden it turns out she was talking about her PRESENT decision not to date me AND was stickign to her guns about it, quite strongly in fact. Why is that? Is it because she perceived me as desperate for believing her optimistic message? Or is it because I didn't quite make it in her "flirt game" ("mean" iwth a smile at her face = flirting; hte latter in conjunction with deciding not to talk to me = "bad at flirt game" = "weak").
4. The girl blames me for feeling like a victim. But what she misses is that feeling something is NOT an attempt to manipulate: I don't have a choice over what I feel any more than I have a choice of seeing the sky is blue! The feeling of victimhood is NOT a nice feeling, I would have gotten rid of that feeling in a second IF I had a choice what to feel, but I don't! So I am"weak" for not being able to get rid of that feeling of victimhood, and then the girl blames me for being weak.
5. Due to my bad past behavior, HER FRIENDS are the ones not liking me, which somehow adds to the problem: thus I am "converted" from someone "mean" (aka jerk) to someone "unpopular" (aka nice guy).
One thing I am wondering about is whether the girls do that on purpose since they know they will hurt me much more this way. I mean I admit, yes, at the time when I ORIGINALLY hurt them, I did it on purpose, since I was trying to use them as punching bags to displace my anger at someone else. But that time when I did it on purpose was gone, and then when I no longer was in a bad mood only then the girls would come back with the tricks described above. Maybe its because they know that if they were to react in immediate context I won't be hurt because the immediate reaction is something I was looking for, and thats why they deliberately decided to react outside of immediate context so that I "would" get hurt?
Or here is another possibility: maybe what triggers that is "inconsistent" behavior in my part. As long as I am mean AND sticking to being mean, the girls perceive it as a conflict between two "strong" sides, each side is equally legitimate, thus, neither side is in a position to punish the other. But then, when stopped being mean -- and the reason I stopped has nothing to do with what happens between me and the girl in question (after all, SHE didn't have to do anything to appease me, rather it was something on my end that enabled me to stop) -- then the girl realizes that it wasn't a conflict between two "strong" parties, rather it was my being "weak" (whether "too weak to stop myself from starting the fight on the first place" or "too weak to continue the fight once its started" or "too weak to undo the consequences of my bad behavior" or whatever) so I lose her respect and thats what causes her to act that way.
Now lets tie it together to the whole nice guy vs jerk thing. One thing I read is that girls date jerks in hopes to fix them. But wait a second wouldn't jerks be "weak" since the girl can "force" them to act differently in the process of "fixing"? I guess the girl doesn't see it that way. What she sees is that the jerk is strong and has ultimate control of his behavior, and the only thing she does to "fix" him is that she "earns" his good graces, which is precisely why she feels so good about doing it: it gives her self validation to "earn" something. On the other hand, in my case, the girl didn't "earn" anything, instead I stopped my bad behavior all on my own, simply because my mind happened to move past whatever I originally wanted to use the girl as a punching bag over. True, if I were to refrain from using punching bags on the first place, she wouldn't have "earned" anything either; but in this case I wouldn't have been "giving" anything "undeserved" either: I would have simply been a good person because thats common decency, fair enough. But the moment she sees I am not sticking to common decency, THEN ONLY she perceives my nice behavior SUBSEQUENT TO temper tantrum as "undeserved gift" which causes her to see me as "weak" for giving her something undeserved.
And this also is tied together to two seemingly opposite personality traits that I have. On the one hand, I am very forgiving (well I hold grudges as you can see but thats ONLY because girls don't forgive me; IF they were to come back and forgive me I would immediately accept forgiveness, no questions asked, and thats what they won't do -- which is this whole entire post is about) on the other hand, I have misplaced reaction (this whole punching bag thing) and thirdly phrases like "thank you" are not part of my dictionary. To sum it up, its not about me being "too good" (using punching bags isn't good) nor is it about being "not good enough" (being super-forgiving IS good) nor anything else; rather its about me being "outside of social context". And being "outside of social context" is being perceived as weakness, (after all weakness is lack of skills and in this case its lack of social skills, that plus also how would I ever be good at self defense if all I ever do is re-direct anger elsewhere?) hence the contempt that I am receiving.
I remember on Christian message board I was given a warning for saying negative things against Jews. So then I stopped and instead said something negative against Buddhists, and then the mod responded "hmm can't blame Jews for anything, lets try Buddhists, but before you attack Buddhists, work on your martial skills". And this seem to sum up my problems with girls: you see, since I am so weak and don't have any fighting skills, thats why any and all times I make a remote attempt to fight (anger or whatever) they thoroughly defeat me by using the "tricks" outlined in the beginning of the post, and then I feel "beaten up". Now think of the following scenario: suppose you are in high school, and suppose there is that kid picking a fight with you, yet you are much stronger than that kid and you beat him up easily. What would you feel about that kid? On the other hand that kid is "mean" for starting a fight, on the other hand he is "weak" for having been defeated in the fight. So you have a form of contempt, and both "that kid is mean" AND "that kid is weak" are two unseparable ingredients of said contempt. If that kid was just as mean but strong enough to actually win the fight, your attitude towards that kid would have been entirely different. So what I am thinking is that the girls also engaged in "fight" with me, but instead of the tricks they teach you on how to get the person to fall on the floor, the girls have the tricks on how to make me feel inferior -- the ones I listed in the beginning of the post -- so they used those tricks and since my social skills are not nearly as good, they "beaten me up" and then their attitude towards me became the same as your attitude towards that high school kid who started a fight yet whom you beaten up easily.
Anyway, those are just my perceptions. But what is your opinion on what happened. Do you think this is in fact what girls were doing, or do you think its just my attributting my own ideas to what they were doing?
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