Neurodivergence and perfect pitch?

[Lactobuzzillus]

(I’m not entirely sure where to put this thread, so sorry if it’s in the wrong spot.)

I am wondering about the connection between perfect pitch and neurodivergence. Supposedly, it’s impossible to develop perfect pitch past the point of being a young child, but I developed mine around age 13-15. Do you think that being “wired differently” enables some of us to do that?

When I was learning to play songs by ear, I realized that if I knew what the starting note of a song was, I could recall the note by recalling the song in my head. I went and found corresponding songs for each note, and eventually I got quicker at recalling them. I don’t need to use the songs anymore since they’re just burned into my head.

Sometimes I do make a mistake and get the notes mixed up when I’m not paying attention. Oddly enough, while most of the other musicians I know tend to get it wrong by a half or whole step, I tend to mistake them for neighbors on the circle of fifths (Db for Ab, A for D, E for B and so on) This leads me to believe that my brain is classifying the character of each key/note in a fundamentally different way from people who use relative pitch.

I know a couple of guys who also have perfect pitch, and while I definitely am not qualified to diagnose anyone with anything, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are neurodivergent. They are quirky, clever, and unusual.

Do you have perfect pitch? If so, how would you describe your experience?

 

[Slime_Punk]

I have an extremely high musical IQ (according to the online tests) (not to be confused with regular IQ, in which I'm just average), but the part that makes it seem potentially valid (even though regular IQ tests are a bit rigged for neurotpyicals in some ways as it is) is that whenever I have someone else take the same tests, they all get average scores.

Personally I've heard of perfect-pitch being one of 'those' savant ASD skills, so I believe most of the people with perfect pitch could theoretically fall into ASD-territory. Developing it later in life sounds like a pretty amazing gift, too.

 

[330]

This is interesting- From my understanding perfect pitch would be Hearing a note and naming the Note , also being able to say from hearing once all the notes in the played chord not matter how many notes are in the chord, even saying if it is a Major13 or a stacked Major on top of a minor chord, with out having any reference of key or pitch . Or Telling someone to sing a particular note and they can do it on the spot . With no reference tone or idea of key .

I do know it is a very extremely rare ability. Almost savant in its nature. It also does not last the duration of one’s life , usually with perfect pitch it starts to disappear the older we get . That’s because our hearing changes as we get older .

I have read that Mozart and Beethoven had perfect pitch, well we know what happened to Beethovens hearing . They also conclude with lots of evidence that they were both Autistic. So maybe there is some correlation. There would have to be some extensive studies .


Me personally when I started to teach myself instruments, I completely skipped knowing notes I had no interest in learning the written language of music or even human language I was not interested in . I have always just seen the notes as lines and kind of vibrating and glowing different colors in my mind . I could see them on a piano and hear them in my head but I had no clue the names of the notes . I had to learn how to translate what was in my mind to the tools ( instruments)

I was not interested in playing other peoples music at first , I had a piano , guitar, bass , drums and mandolin available to me and I just started playing them trying match the notes in my mind usually with in a few semitones . With out knowing any notes names or anything
. This I obsessed over for years and kept doing this and did not care about having friends or being social by the time I was 14 , I was told I should learn other peoples songs . So I started , used the same concept and just learned songs by ear , with out knowing any notes or names or music theory.

This got boring so I started learning how to compose , but to be able to play with other musicians I had to learn the written musical language. I skipped learning how to read music and and went right to music theory, here I found all the patterns and names for patterns and clusters I have always known in my mind , now they had names . I knew music language already it was just different compared to how people speak it .

I could now tell a guitar player what key or what chords to play . Or how many measures . Or what kind of feel I want . Oddly enough I can write a song faster than I could learn someone else’s music

. That’s why the band I am in now we have big improvisation sections, and I test them because once they find where I am i will shift to another key or go from a major key or minor , and see if they follow .
I don’t think I have what is considered perfect pitch . But I can tell instantly most chords , Major,minor,7th , maj7 , sus chords etc just by hearing them . And usually find them on piano quickly.

I don’t know if this is how you think of music as well ?

 

[Crossbreed]

Though I agree that is a savant-type skill, it is not common in other autistics. (I have good relative pitch, though.)
Perfect pitch is very common in people with Williams Syndrome.

Williams syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[330]

I was diagnosed autistic in the 2nd grade, and I have a very flat, breathy singing voice. Sometimes, if I feel safe and brave enough, I can try for a pretty voice, but I am terrible at matching notes or octaves. I literally cannot hear what I sound like when others are singing too.

I am the same with singing always a bit flat . And maybe it’s because I never liked singing or talking that much in general . But my hands and fingers Thats another story I can learn and play any instrument if given enough time . I also have problems hearing my voice in context with other singers . I really struggle with it .

 

[Outdated]

I have no musical ability whatsoever, and I can't really sing. I can mimic though, very well. I have a strong voice with a good range, although I prefer the mid to lower tones.

I often sing to myself when I don't think anyone can hear me, but it's the same weird song I've been singing since I was about 3 years old. Not really a song, a conglomeration of all sorts of things I heard when I was little, or sometimes the theme song from the show The Banana Splits.

Quite a few people have commented over the years that I have a good voice.

 

[Crossbreed]

...or sometimes the theme song from the show The Banana Splits.

Was that the American version?

 

[Outdated]

Was that the American version?

I think so, but I'm not sure. It had the Danger Island show in it with Chongo.

One banana, two banana, three banana, four.
Four bananas playing on the bright sea shore.

 

[GypsyMoth]

I do not play any instruments (no opportunity as a young person) but I’ve been told I sing very well by a musician who did his own sound recordings. He would actually ask when I’d be singing again. I sing in a range of styles from traditional to contemporary church music (choir & duet) to anything written before the early eighties. My musician friend was impressed that I can do a fairly well Janice Joplin style without having a clue as to what I was doing. I hate being on stage so when I am the only way I can get through it is to close my eyes & pour everything I have into the music. So, why do it? I don’t know, I have this fantasy that I’d actually be comfortable up there or something.

As to perfect pitch, I have zero musical training outside of singing in a choir (both in & out of church). I learned early on how to hear my own voice among many and can sing something quite different or differently than the those around me so long as I can follow something in the music. If I am singing without music, the I need to see the words. But without those outside helps, I can’t get through happy birthday without getting lost. (Is that Hyperbole? Yes.)

I do imitate bird whistles and frequently have whistling competitions with my feathered friends outside, and I have been able to call in the curious bird while out hiking. I am familiar with some of the various calls & which bird they belong to, but my skills are rusty & these days I just like to whistle back at them. It’s good enough to engage them for a good ten minutes or so, before I get tired of whistling. I suppose you could say that takes fairly good pitch.

I took an online pitch test once & scored in the 99th percentile. I know which one I missed, too. If I had taken it with headphones and In a quiet house I wouldn’t have missed it.

 

[Crossbreed]

As to perfect pitch, I have zero musical training outside of singing in a choir (both in & out of church).

Perfect pitch means that you can hum any key (in your range) accurately before hearing it played (on a piano, pitch-pipe, etc.).
Relative pitch means you can stay on key after you have heard a starter note.

I was in church, school & military choirs + musical theater growing up, but now my preferred churches have bands. I still cannot read music, though.

 

[Mary Terry]

I have perfect pitch - tested and confirmed when I was about 10 years old. I can discern notes and where they fall on the scale and whether a singer is off-key. But I cannot sing in perfect pitch.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

NO I do not. Plus, in playing my banjo I use tablature.

 

[Richelle-H]

I don't have perfect pitch but when I was in choirs I could always hear a note and be pitch perfect in singing it back, but I could not name the note or what octave it was on a keyboard.

 

[Stuttermabolur]

For me, it is similar to @RichelleH. I did practice the violin when I was a child (though I was pretty bad at it) so I know the very basics of the tone scale, but I don't really know what the letters mean, and can't sing back the note from only hearing the name of it. However, I joined a choir this semester and I can sing back what I heard pretty well, and tend not to need the conductor to give me a note with his piano if I have heard the part before.

My range is pretty limited, and I occasionally start in the wrong octave, but a member of the choir asked me after practice once (when I had been in the choir for roughly 6 weeks) if I had been to music school because he found my singing so good. He himself actually studied singing for a year or two, was taking private lessons and had been in choirs for most of his life, while this was my first time. To be shameless, I felt quite pleased with myself at that moment. I have also heard some other people say I have a good singing voice and I'm good at hitting a note.

One thing I have noticed is that singing is actually very enjoyable to me, and so I tend to practice more than most people in the choir. On breaks, when the other people are socializing, I tend to rehearse the piece we are learning, and I also listened to it while working or driving which meant I was the only bass who actually knew the whole piece when the basses came together for extra practice (even those who had been in the choir for years). It's the same with acting. I'm not the best actor, but I sometimes got annoyed at the other performers when they preferred to chat on breaks rather than rehearse as I actually really like acting.

 

[Judge]

I have perfect pitch - tested and confirmed when I was about 10 years old. I can discern notes and where they fall on the scale and whether a singer is off-key. But I cannot sing in perfect pitch.

Me too. Reminds me of hearing potential contestants for "American Idol" who are so blatantly off key and pitchy.

- In a competition, it's the "kiss of death" when one can so easily hear such things. When the cameras refocus on the judges and you can clearly see it reflected in their grimacing faces.

 

[huimaa]

I've read somewhere that perfect pitch is indeed one of these special skills that some neurodivergent people can have, or can develop in life. I think I have this talent as well, especially when it comes to singing, it's like I need to hear a song once and I can replicate how it's sang almost instantly. It might be linked to a gift of emulating voices too, in general, as I feel like I can easily also sound like a bunch of different singers.

 

[MildredHubble]

I'm a bit like @Moogwizard I didn't really want to learn notes. I see written music as something that does a poor job of approximating the real sensation of tones. I've never been great at reading music and music theory, although I passed an exam on it a long time ago is not something I really need to rely on to compose music or learn to play the things I want.

When I listen to music, I can often get visual stuff going on. If I listen very critically, like when I'm learning to play a piece of music, I kinda see it all like a cloud with colours that I can move about and focus in on.

I can usually tune a guitar within a couple of cents of perfect.

A veeeeerrry long time ago, I briefly was studying a academic course apparently focused on performing. It was a total joke and I left it after 3-4 months. I was told by one lecturer in particular that I had no real musical knowledge since I struggled to transcribe to "dots" on the stave.

I knew this was rubbish as I could play, just not write it down. He gave us an assignment to produce a piece of music that used the concepts we had learned throughout the semester. You had three columns and you had to include a minimum of 2 from each in your composition. He said something pretty offensive to me that I should probably only choose two from each as I wouldn't be able to properly apply the concepts and it would be "too challenging".

So I decided to troll the hell out of him. I wrote a piece that never repeated once. Every bar was different. Not only that, but I included one example of EVERYTHING in all three columns. It was like a piece of jazz fusion. It had everything and the kitchen sink in there lol! It was a real PIA to write it all down by hand. Took me the best part of a day. But it had to be accurate. It was worth it as I knew he would have to go through every single bar! It must have taken him hours! Also he couldn't say that I didn't understand the concepts anymore!

So I got top marks for it. The composition is still something I'm proud of, even if it was recorded on horrid sounding GM MIDI voices and as a result of including everything it always has the sense that it's right on the edge. Plus perhaps I should have foregone the vamp as it's a little awkward. But it still makes me chuckle to this day to think about how much it must have irritated him to read it all then have to give me a top grade! Ahhh to be 19 again!

 

[330]

I'm a bit like @Moogwizard I didn't really want to learn notes. I see written music as something that does a poor job of approximating the real sensation of tones. I've never been great at reading music and music theory, although I passed an exam on it a long time ago is not something I really need to rely on to compose music or learn to play the things I want.

When I listen to music, I can often get visual stuff going on. If I listen very critically, like when I'm learning to play a piece of music, I kinda see it all like a cloud with colours that I can move about and focus in on.

I can usually tune a guitar within a couple of cents of perfect.

A veeeeerrry long time ago, I briefly was studying a academic course apparently focused on performing. It was a total joke and I left it after 3-4 months. I was told by one lecturer in particular that I had no real musical knowledge since I struggled to transcribe to "dots" on the stave.

I knew this was rubbish as I could play, just not write it down. He gave us an assignment to produce a piece of music that used the concepts we had learned throughout the semester. You had three columns and you had to include a minimum of 2 from each in your composition. He said something pretty offensive to me that I should probably only choose two from each as I wouldn't be able to properly apply the concepts and it would be "too challenging".

So I decided to troll the hell out of him. I wrote a piece that never repeated once. Every bar was different. Not only that, but I included one example of EVERYTHING in all three columns. It was like a piece of jazz fusion. It had everything and the kitchen sink in there lol! It was a real PIA to write it all down by hand. Took me the best part of a day. But it had to be accurate. It was worth it as I knew he would have to go through every single bar! It must have taken him hours! Also he couldn't say that I didn't understand the concepts anymore!

So I got top marks for it. The composition is still something I'm proud of, even if it was recorded on horrid sounding GM MIDI voices and as a result of including everything it always has the sense that it's right on the edge. Plus perhaps I should have foregone the vamp as it's a little awkward. But it still makes me chuckle to this day to think about how much it must have irritated him to read it all then have to give me a top grade! Ahhh to be 19 again!

Good job turning a negative into a positive. Especially into an art form

 

[Mary Terry]

Me too. Reminds me of hearing potential contestants for "American Idol" who are so blatantly off key and pitchy.

- In a competition, it's the "kiss of death" when one can so easily hear such things. When the cameras refocus on the judges and you can clearly see it reflected in their grimacing faces.

I know it's heresy, but I could never stand listening to Stevie Nicks or Bruce Springsteen.

 

[MildredHubble]

I know it's heresy, but I could never stand listening to Stevie Nicks or Bruce Springsteen.

Heretic!!!