Need Opinions

[AutumnHope]

All all, I'm new here. I came because I think my mother has autism, but she refuses to see anyone about it to find out. She's in her 90's, so a bit too late for therapy I guess, but if I knew what the issue was with her I could at least relate better to her by learning how to respond to her.

Anyway, I did some research on autism and saw that she has many of the symptoms (sorry for the long post, but these are signs she shows):

--does not understand most sarcasm
--does not understand most jokes
--does not even know subplots in movies exist unless pointed out and explained to her
--does not recognize most symbolism in movies (but I won't say none)
--cannot whisper
--cannot read body language, (ie, if a person is crying they are sad, even if they just held their newborn baby for the first time)
--infringes on other's personal space (ie, she will rearrange other's closets because "they did it wrong", or will lean in too close while speaking)
--hyper critical of everyone
--insults everyone
--cannot have a debate (civil discussion as a sharing of opinions) but turns every disagreement into an argument ("I'm right and you're wrong, and you must believe as I do")
--refuses to admit when wrong, or apologize, unless presented with facts printed out from what she would consider an authority (ie, she wouldn't believe it was bad to leave a turkey on the counter all day until I showed her the CDC website recommendations), but even then sometimes won't believe it
--says and does inappropriate things all the time
--asks inappropriate and intrusive questions of others
--cannot stand loud noises
--non-stop talking without realizing others are trying to change subject, or tying to leave
--seems to view her kids as extensions of herself (especially me, the only girl)
--no one can trust her version of things
--doesn't like changes in plans, even if they don't have anything to do with her
--cannot always see how her actions/words will affect the future, except in the case of money, she's very good with money
--can be obsessive about things
--doesn't seem to understand her actions/words can have a negative impact on others
--can be very passive-aggressive
--seems to view herself as the center of everything; I'm not certain she realizes other people are...people
--can get passive-aggressive/pouty if she's not the center of attention
--doesn't understand much of why people do the things they do, especially if based on emotion instead of logic or rules
--a very literal, logical, and linear thinker
--almost zero creativity (but I won't say none)
--does things and expects others to do things because they are 'supposed to', but she cannot tell you otherwise why
--she can sometimes be very apathetic towards others (even animals), but she will fake compassion for 'brownie points'. However, if others don't praise her for how great a person she is for this, she will pout and sometimes get angry and insulting. She has been caught more than once fake crying for 'brownie points'. When I ask her why she pretends to care, she answers with "Well I'm supposed to."
--only does a small range of activities. Granted, she's in her 90's now, but she's always been that way
--cannot interpret what others are thinking or feeling correctly, or at all
--doesn't always understand slang/figures of speech
--can have weird inflections or cadence to her words, like emphasizing the wrong syllables or pronouncing new words in a monotone
--gets irritated if things in her house are moved


Sorry for the long post, but I really need some opinions on this. Like I said, she refuses to admit anything is remiss, and will not discuss it with her doctor. I'm not even positive all these would count as autism signs, and I've probably left a few things off. About 7 years ago she was diagnosed as being bi-polar, but refused to believe it and will not take her medicine, so it's possible some of this if from that.

Opinions? Advice? How do I and my brothers deal with all this? It's so bad that one of my brothers hasn't seen her in over a decade, only one of my sisters-in-law will agree to occasionally see her, and I ended up moving to another state. I just want to understand her better.

 

[Isadoorian]

Welcome to the Forums! I hope you make new friends and enjoy your stay in the process!

 

[GadAbout]

I'm more inclined to think she has some dementia, maybe layered on top of traits she already had. Why does it matter at this point in life, anyway? (By the way - while I have some limited respect for self-diagnosis, there is no respect given to making a 3rd party diagnosis over the Internet.)

 

[AutumnHope]

I'm more inclined to think she has some dementia, maybe layered on top of traits she already had. Why does it matter at this point in life, anyway? (By the way - while I have some limited respect for self-diagnosis, there is no respect given to making a 3rd party diagnosis over the Internet.)

As I stated, I was asking for opinions, not a diagnosis, and as I also stated, I want to be able to relate to her better. Also, not one of these signs are new, she's done all of them her entire life, so I don't see how they could be signs of dementia.

 

[GadAbout]

I thought my father was distant and dismissive most of my life. But as he got older before dying in his upper 80s, I found it easier to forgive him for his shortcomings. He enjoyed my occasional visits and was nicer to me.

From Shakespeare's sonnet 73:

This thou perceiv'st, which makes thy love more strong,
To love that well which thou must leave ere long.

 

[AutumnHope]

I thought my father was distant and dismissive most of my life. But as he got older before dying in his upper 80s, I found it easier to forgive him for his shortcomings. He enjoyed my occasional visits and was nicer to me.

From Shakespeare's sonnet 73:

This thou perceiv'st, which makes thy love more strong,
To love that well which thou must leave ere long.

Yes, it has been easier to forgive her lately, but that doesn't change her behavior towards me, my brothers, her sisters, etc. Since I do know nothing will change from her side, I have been trying to understand why she is is so hard to get along with for everyone, and has been her entire life.

She's had 4 strokes, and is not expected to live much longer. I just want to understand her before it's too late.

 

[GadAbout]

You know, she might have autism, but pretty much all those things could be accounted for by a personality disorder. Plus or minus the bipolar she was diagnosed with. It's really hard to tell.

It's really sad when an elderly person has alienated most of their relatives, yet has nobody to blame but herself. What a lonely place that must be.

 

[AutumnHope]

You know, she might have autism, but pretty much all those things could be accounted for by a personality disorder. Plus or minus the bipolar she was diagnosed with. It's really hard to tell.

It's really sad when an elderly person has alienated most of their relatives, yet has nobody to blame but herself. What a lonely place that must be.

I had considered she might have some type of personality disorder, but since she won't talk to a doctor about it I will probably never know.

She's chased off all her friends But I know at least one of her sisters talks to her on the phone once a week, and I write her letters.

Thank you for the input.

 

[Progster]

You've listed all her negative qualities. What about her positive qualities?

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I guess, but if I knew what the issue was with her I could at least relate better to her by learning how to respond to her.

1. Relating to her better
2. Learning how to respond to her

are not necessarily related.

and as I also stated, I want to be able to relate to her better.

Like I said, she refuses to admit anything is remiss, and will not discuss it with her doctor.

She's in her 90's. SOund likes somebody (you?) is always asking that something is remiss.

Give her a gift and just let her be the way she is without nagging at her.

Accept her.

You will automatically relate to her better.

and stop telling jokes she doesn't understand and being sarcastic.
(sarcasm alert!)

 

[shysnail]

I think it's very difficult to break a complete person down into their comprising parts and say "Ah, this is why they are this way." I do understand your feeling, I think. I have a brother who I would like to know why he's the way he is. He actually doesn't sound dissimilar to your mother in some ways. He's also been diagnosed with bipolar. To me, bipolar doesn't explain the way he is, and the support he has had for it hasn't helped very much with the way he behaves towards others. However, I'm not a psychiatric expert and googling "bipolar" hasn't given me a very valuable insight into the condition when it comes down to it.

I've thought lots of things to "explain" him, ranging from autism to personality disorders. But the reality is, unless he seeks further psychiatric care and gets diagnosed with something else, there's no way of me knowing apart from speculation, and ultimately that doesn't really help me relate to him better.

I know this doesn't really help you much because it's basically what you've concluded, that unless your mother seeks help for herself, nothing will happen. All the same, I do understand your drive to understand your mother better, but as others have said, perhaps coming to accept the way she is (not an easy task with difficult people, I know) and finding peace with it may be your only option here.

 

[Juliettaa]

Hello and welcome.

she refuses to admit anything is remiss, and will not discuss it with her doctor.

Is there any value in discussing your observations of your mother? She in her 90's therefore I'd hazard a guess that you're not young either, so you've had a long time to get used to her 'idiosyncrasies'.

It may be that your mother is perfectly okay with herself so she's never felt the need to speak with a medical professional?

My post will be of no help to you whatsoever, but I'll quote a poem by Jenny Joseph that sprang to mind when I read your opening post.

Perhaps your mother is just at this point in her life:

When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
With a red hat which doesn’t go, and doesn’t suit me.
And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves
And satin sandals, and say we’ve no money for butter.
I shall sit down on the pavement when I’m tired
And gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells
And run my stick along the public railings
And make up for the sobriety of my youth.
I shall go out in my slippers in the rain
And pick flowers in other people’s gardens
And learn to spit.

You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat
And eat three pounds of sausages at a go
Or only bread and pickle for a week
And hoard pens and pencils and beermats and things in boxes.

But now we must have clothes that keep us dry
And pay our rent and not swear in the street
And set a good example for the children.
We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.

But maybe I ought to practise a little now?
So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised
When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.


Warning by Jenny Joseph | Scottish Poetry Library

 

[Pats]

You ARE an extension of her. She may or may not be autistic, but it doesn't matter. All mom's are difficult. I like the way Tim Allen put it - Mom's can push buttons better than anyone - because they're the ones that sewed them on. Be patient - it'll be over before you want it to and you'll feel better if you've let her live her final days being who she is and loving her anyway.
If it makes it easier for you to understand and deal with her to think she's autistic - then think it.

 

[Tom]

I can understand wanting to know. But at least for me what you describe is very confusing as far as autism symptoms go. I mean some things sound like it and some definitely do not. I am not really up on other conditions so don't have an alternate explanation.

 

[Judge]

She's in her 90's, so a bit too late for therapy I guess

Yes, she's in her 90s. Which as others have posted, likely means it's too late for much of any considerations beyond dementia. Something that is also easy for a caregiver to overlook in dealing with someone close on a daily basis. I know, as it was the case of when I took care of my own NT mother in her 80s.

 

[Peter Morrison]

AutumnHope, You probably don't need to pursue a diagnosis for ASD. Your mother is the same person you always knew. She is aging, and with that come changes in abilities, attitudes, and interests. You certainly shouldn't argue with her about anything.

Seek professional advice from her doctors and specialists in aging. If she is suffering from any of the conditions common to the elderly, you will need to understand how to care for her. If she suffers from bouts of confusion, then she could end up being easily frustrated or angry. Do your best to understand her. She needs care now. Give it with your heart.

 

[china autie]

First, a neurologist. Tell your mum she needs a baseline to make sure she is okay. Let the neurodoc take it from there.

Has she always had these things?

Even if it is autism, autism is not a disease with prescribed treatments.

If there is,any age related cognitive decline going on, better to get looked at for that now than later. Dementia meds can improve functioning for,awhile and basically delay the misery until the end.

 

[onlything]

I'm not sure there's a point seeking diagnosis at the moment. As you said, she's 90 and doesn't have much time left. Maybe instead of looking for a reason, it would be better to just accept that this is how she is. Acceptance is a first step to understanding. Diagnosis doesn't always help with understanding others anyway. I may know that my friend is bordeline with manic depression, that my family member has a complex ptsd - but these facts do not make understanding easier. Listening to them and their stories and being open to what they say, hope, are afraid of - this is where understanding comes from. And yet still, you will never fully understand another person.

 

[tducey]

Given her age I think it might be something more than Autism. Whatever it is I hope you find some answers but also enjoy the time you have left with her.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

My grandmother is stubborn and literal, as well. Maybe she could potentially also be on the spectrum? She is nearing her 70s, so she is much younger than her Mom, but still too late for therapy. Would explain where I got it from.