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My Pronouns/My Gender

Misery said:
Someone needs to find a way to condense all these terms a bit or something.

Even I am a bit confused by some of them. As it is, both of those were new to me.

It sure aint gonna be easy for anyone to use them in casual conversation, or during introductions with random people.
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Based on a good number of the conversations I've had in my life both online and offline, I've occasionally joked about my second pronoun been "off" and the first been something ruder.
(To quote a phrase my Dad would say to me, "some days you're enough to make a parson swear").

Joking aside, I tend to avoid the whole thing with pronouns until it becomes necessary. I rarely interact with people nowadays and If I make a mistake when it comes to pronouns, so be it - log it in my brain for next time.
 
Thinx said:
Have you considered ze or xe? Don't hear those so much yet, they/them seems the most used for expressing trans/nonbinary gender.
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Wait wait wait: Is THAT what those mean? "Ze" and "xe" are effectively used for those who are non-binary? I've had those terms thrown at me on occasion and always thought it was some sort of odd typo. But... that's what it actually means? Huh. Which then means that people are sometimes just outright assuming that I am not of traditional gender... I wonder what the heck I do that makes them think that. Not that I mind, I've gotten she/her from strangers at random intervals and that's certainly good by me, but still, that assumption makes me wonder if I have a specific "tone" or... heck if I freaking know. It's hard to understand the perception of others sometimes.

Ah geez, all this stuff is so confusing and frustrating sometimes. As I keep saying lately with various subjects, this stuff needs to just come with a user manual.
 
Misery said:
Wait wait wait: Is THAT what those mean? "Ze" and "xe" are effectively used for those who are non-binary? I've had those terms thrown at me on occasion and always thought it was some sort of odd typo. But... that's what it actually means? Huh. Which then means that people are sometimes just outright assuming that I am not of traditional gender... I wonder what the heck I do that makes them think that. Not that I mind, I've gotten she/her from strangers at random intervals and that's certainly good by me, but still, that assumption makes me wonder if I have a specific "tone" or... heck if I freaking know. It's hard to understand the perception of others sometimes.

Ah geez, all this stuff is so confusing and frustrating sometimes. As I keep saying lately with various subjects, this stuff needs to just come with a user manual.
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Probably a mixture of your behavior and appearance. Also depends on the culture of the person(s) you are interacting with.
 
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Misery said:
Wait wait wait: Is THAT what those mean? "Ze" and "xe" are effectively used for those who are non-binary? I've had those terms thrown at me on occasion and always thought it was some sort of odd typo. But... that's what it actually means? Huh. Which then means that people are sometimes just outright assuming that I am not of traditional gender... I wonder what the heck I do that makes them think that. Not that I mind, I've gotten she/her from strangers at random intervals and that's certainly good by me, but still, that assumption makes me wonder if I have a specific "tone" or... heck if I freaking know. It's hard to understand the perception of others sometimes.

Ah geez, all this stuff is so confusing and frustrating sometimes. As I keep saying lately with various subjects, this stuff needs to just come with a user manual.
Click to expand...

I think the confusion over time will be resolved by a change in accepted salutations. Historically no one thought of gender when greeting someone else. In the future, the gender confusion can be solved by something like this:

Person A: "Hello, I'm pleased to meet you. How do you prefer to be called/referred to?"

Person B: "I'm pleased to meet you as well. I prefer to be called [ insert preference here ]. How do you prefer to be called?"

Problem solved. I think that's how things will change also because pronouns and references could end up being so expansive that they literally become subjective and therefore end up having no real meaning other than what each individual person thinks of/for themselves.
 
One more thing I might add regarding my previous post about how salutations might change in the future to address each individual's self-described and unique pronouns. If pronoun usage evolves to be regarded as truly subjective in origin, then gender will become meaningless (biological sex will remain unchanged as biologically pertinent) That doesn't mean unlimited genders will be meaningless to each person, but it would be meaningless to anyone else.

The following example is not intended to demean the gender issue; it's meant to illustrate what I mean:

Person A: "I really like stuffed animals and in particular I really like stuffed animal frogs. In fact, they're among the most important things to me. I think of myself as a frog-sapien to the point that I identify as a frog-sapien. I'd like you to refer to me as a frog-sapien."

Person B: "Ok. Identifying as a "frog-sapien" (a term you've coined for yourself) might mean a great deal to you and I will honor your wish to be referred to as a "frog-sapien"; however, know that "frog-sapien" means nothing to me and as such I don't care a lick about it. The way you choose to identify based on a term that you've made up for yourself is meaningless to me."

Person A: "Ok, but see now I'm offended because you're not adopting the same level of meaning and importance to how I choose to refer to myself (and want others to refer to me as) as I do.

Reality: People don't care about our own specific cares as much as we do for ourselves. Expecting that they do is an exercise in futility and is also an unjustifiable expectation. It's over-stepping boundaries.
 
Magna said:
I think the confusion over time will be resolved by a change in accepted salutations. Historically no one thought of gender when greeting someone else. In the future, the gender confusion can be solved by something like this:

Person A: "Hello, I'm pleased to meet you. How do you prefer to be called/referred to?"

Person B: "I'm pleased to meet you as well. I prefer to be called [ insert preference here ]. How do you prefer to be called?"

Problem solved. I think that's how things will change also because pronouns and references could end up being so expansive that they literally become subjective and therefore end up having no real meaning other than what each individual person thinks of/for themselves.
Click to expand...
I don't think pronouns will have no meaning. I think you're overthinking.
 
Magna said:
One more thing I might add regarding my previous post about how salutations might change in the future to address each individual's self-described and unique pronouns. If pronoun usage evolves to be regarded as truly subjective in origin, then gender will become meaningless (biological sex will remain unchanged as biologically pertinent) That doesn't mean unlimited genders will be meaningless to each person, but it would be meaningless to anyone else.

The following example is not intended to demean the gender issue; it's meant to illustrate what I mean:

Person A: "I really like stuffed animals and in particular I really like stuffed animal frogs. In fact, they're among the most important things to me. I think of myself as a frog-sapien to the point that I identify as a frog-sapien. I'd like you to refer to me as a frog-sapien."

Person B: "Ok. Identifying as a "frog-sapien" (a term you've coined for yourself) might mean a great deal to you and I will honor your wish to be referred to as a "frog-sapien"; however, know that "frog-sapien" means nothing to me and as such I don't care a lick about it. The way you choose to identify based on a term that you've made up for yourself is meaningless to me."

Person A: "Ok, but see now I'm offended because you're not adopting the same level of meaning and importance to how I choose to refer to myself (and want others to refer to me as) as I do.

Reality: People don't care about our own specific cares as much as we do for ourselves. Expecting that they do is an exercise in futility and is also an unjustifiable expectation. It's over-stepping boundaries.
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Yes but alternatively to your assertion, some people do care. And they would rise up like a cloud of varied sapiens, and speak their truth.

Anyway though, normally it could work best to drop the idea of gendered designations, it's usually irrelevant in my experience. Yes, I am Mx Roper-Todd, and I wish to order a new black bin... why is gender relevant ? It isn't.
 
Sapphire K said:
I don't think pronouns will have no meaning. I think you're overthinking.
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If pronoun creation evolves to be subjective, meaning that each person can choose to create their own personal pronouns unique unto themselves with no relation to anything other than the equally unique gender they perceive themselves to be, then that means the number of different pronouns can grow to a point that they have no real meaning other than to the individual who created them for themselves.

Ze/xe is an example. They're newly created pronouns. Would you object to someone wanting their own unique pronouns to be Te/ye, Sy/fe or any other similar combination of letters?
 
Magna said:
If pronoun creation evolves to be subjective, meaning that each person can choose to create their own personal pronouns unique unto themselves with no relation to anything other than the equally unique gender they perceive themselves to be, then that means the number of different pronouns can grow to a point that they have no real meaning other than to the individual who created them for themselves.

Ze/xe is an example. They're newly created pronouns. Would you object to someone wanting their own unique pronouns to be Te/ye, Sy/fe or any other similar combination of letters?
Click to expand...
Several people use those pronouns though. And there have not been any brand new neopronouns so far.
 
Thinx said:
Anyway though, normally it could work best to drop the idea of gendered designations, it's usually irrelevant in my experience. Yes, I am Mx Roper-Todd, and I wish to order a new black bin... why is gender relevant ? It isn't.
Click to expand...
TBH, we could just do away with gender as a whole.
 
Still puzzled.

" hello jon, this is my friend[non binary person] _______ is joining us for lunch today"

I like the artist formerly known as Prince, _______ just released an album.

I think i need an educational film
 
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