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Featured Maybe another reasons girls are less likely to receive a diagnosis??

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Pats, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    because on a public forum you can't really make comments about a completely individual case you're really talking about individual cases but it is erroneous to entitle it maybe another reason girls are less easy to diagnose! the title should have really been I am frustrated because my granddaughter isn't receiving the help that my grandson is and you are actually one thing to talk about to individuals not all goes in particular that is an offshoot of the fact that you are frustrated about your granddaughter and the problem is when you use the English language you aren't talking about an individual because you would have to use their name so what you do is then make it confusing for me when I read it, I thought you were talking about girls in general not your granddaughter, I do not speak your form of English, what you say on a public forum has an impact much wider than your immediate family,if you entitled the article with the English word girls instead of your granddaughter's name that is different.
     
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  2. Varzar

    Varzar Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I also fit the 'girl profile' better, but also was never diagnosed..

    But that doesn't invalidate the observation @Pats is making.
    I think the world today is a little bit overly sensitized to the idea of a stereotype..
    If an observation applies to 8/10 people, it's still a valid observation to make. Even though those 2/10 will quite easily make up a huge number of people.

    In this case, the observation is that girls might tend to internalize more than boys, and consequently fall under the radar of diagnosis more regularly than boys.. An observation like this doesn't have to mean 100% of all girls and boys fit this exact mold..

    I feel like the opposition in here is more knee-jerk reacting to this idea that the observation should somehow apply in 100% of cases or else it is completely invalid.. There is a middle ground where it can be a valid idea, and also not apply to 100% of cases..
     
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  3. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    just because somebody doesn't agree with the title of the article doesn't mean it is knee jerk it just means a disagreement
     
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  4. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I was looking at my own when this came to mind, but I do think that often times, those who are quiet are less likely to be diagnosed because they're easier for the parents and the public to deal with. I think it's possible that it's the same with any type of diagnosing.
    You have a patient come in moaning and crying and demanding the doctor to do something about their pain. You have another patient come in, trying to cope with their pain in a more quiet manner. Both have the same diagnosis. The louder patient may often go home with stronger pain meds than the quieter person, because they don't appear to be having as much pain.
    Or if you are told your neighbor's dog is vicious. But you have two neighbors, both with dogs. One of the dogs barks constantly and the other is quiet. Which one are you going to assume is vicious and why? You're not going to be as concerned about the quiet dog.
     
  5. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Oh, is it about the title?
    It's known that more boys are diagnosed than girls at younger ages. It used to be thought that it was mostly boys that had autism - because of the stereo-type diagnosing. Then they learned that girls were just more likely to be overlooked because it was not as obvious. I'm just adding to that theory by saying it has a lot to do with the person that is more difficult for others to deal with is more likely to be taken for a diagnosis than the person that is easy. The parent doesn't see the need for help with the person who is quiet, yet they need help with the one who is difficult, so they are more likely to take the louder one, while the quieter one is suffering just the same - just not bothering anyone else. And that COULD be another reason girls are less likely to receive a diagnosis - but I guess I should have said the quieter person.
    And I was only using the grandkids as an example.
     
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  6. Varzar

    Varzar Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Then I don't understand the basis of the disagreement you have. If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting general statements can't be made on a public forum, only specific statements about individuals.

    I don't understand why you believe that to be true.. afaic, we can still make observations, and if the observations apply to more than 50% of cases, they are still "better than chance" observations, and therefore worth considering.
     
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  7. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It's not a complex dynamic to me personally. That manifestations of autistic traits and behaviors of girls and women can be so low-key that "whoosh", the thought of them being on the spectrum can fly right over my head.

    Which is why over the years I've appreciated women discussing such issues here in this forum. :cool:

    I still recall how "that light" first went on in my head when @Ylva explained to me the autistic nature of the fictional character of Bella Swan some years back. For the first time it all began to make sense.

    No telling in real life how many autistic women continue to fly under the radar of even some of the most astute medical professionals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  8. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    thanks Varzar. Sometimes it can be exhausting trying to explain what you are/were trying to say. :)
     
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  9. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    Yeh it's exhausting for me !!!!!!!!! I'm that girl except no support whatsoever!!!!!!! and humans are hung up on you won't agree with me and definitely not part of the clique as you can't communicate ,your paranoid as noone has ever!!!!!!!! said they are confused by your communication
     
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  10. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Yes there's been a growing realisation that Aspergers and high autistic traits were not mainly the preserve of males, and the understanding of how the issues present differently for girls and women is a hot topic, with various books out in recent years from women on the spectrum. - Rudi Simone, Aspergirls, 2010; Sarah Hendrickx, Women and Girls with Autism Spectrum Disorder, 2015; Laura James, Odd Girl Out 2018; Camouflage: the Hidden Lives of Autistic Women , Dr Sarah Bargiela, 2019, to name a few.
     
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  11. Thinx

    Thinx Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I think a very interesting additional point that this thread has brought out is that non-typical boys have also gone undiagnosed and many are still likely to. As @Pats has pointed out, the emphasis is on how much trouble the child is to parents, and also perhaps to teachers, and not on how to target help to the quiet but confused children who go under the wire.
     
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  12. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I'm sorry streetwise. I didn't mean to exhaust you. I know that sometimes it's harder to read/hear what someone is saying because we can't hear tone and it's easy to mis-communicate in writing. I wasn't trying to argue or anything, I was just trying to re-explain since it seemed to be a communication thing.

    One thing I like about this forum is that there doesn't seem to be any cliques. Everyone has equal opportunity to write and sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't and there's nothing wrong with that.
     
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  13. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

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    Ok, the article I read in Science indicated that girls with HFA (among other things) tend to have a neurotypical boy's level of social intelligence which is less than an typical girl but better than a typical boy who is "on the spectrum". (It later speculated about the presence of X-linked genes that might buffer this particular trait.) It is easy to imagine how that would hide the condition if you were just using social intelligence as a marker.
     
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  14. Varzar

    Varzar Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I'm sorry too @Streetwise. :( There was certainly no intention to upset you. You have my support even if we don't always agree on everything. You are definitely an important part of this community and I very much value everything you have to say.
     
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  15. christopher.k

    christopher.k roosterman

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    It can indeed be tiring streetwise though I seem to have a good nose for finding people that understand me easily.
     
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  16. Streetwise

    Streetwise very cautious contributor V.I.P Member

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    i’m going to have to accept that I just can’t communicate and I think it’s because of PTSD ,in my country mental illness Could mean danger when I was a child and slightly older ,There wasn’t the culture like the USA where people thought therapy was something normal, i’m at the point now where I can’t even stay awake for a telephone appointment with a psychologist.
     
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  17. Magpie

    Magpie Member

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    Than you for writing. The profile you describe for a girl fits me well. Another response stated when they hit the teens they went in, didnt talk much...this was how I presented, I retained the quiet side throughout life. Still, when I think of Jennifer O'Toole (Autism in Heels) its easy to see quiet and reserved is how all girls present. In her book O'Toole sounds positively Histrionic, throwing self on floor until heard, precocious, abrasively correcting and called herself a bossy pants. Then there is Temple Grandin who would be neither. With so many presentations, I believe in the idea of the spectrum. A lot of times when I hear female circuit speakers with autism they sound like the end-all-be-all of a female autistic woman's experience,which is often not my own. That feels alienating, ugh, excluded again, sigh. ;-)
     
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  18. Au Naturel

    Au Naturel Au Naturel

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    Scientific American: Autism - It is different in girls

    Summary:

    Autism in Girls

    • One in 68 children in the U.S. is affected by autism—but new research suggests that current diagnostic methods overlook girls, meaning even more kids may be "on the spectrum", maybe 1 in 40.
    • Behavioral and preliminary neuroimaging findings suggest autism manifests differently in girls. Notably, females with autism may be closer to typically developing males in their social abilities than typical girls or boys with autism.
    • Girls with autism may be harder to diagnose for several reasons, including criteria developed specifically around males and overlapping diagnoses such as obsessive-compulsive disorder or anorexia.
     
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  19. Chrysanthemum

    Chrysanthemum Active Member

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    I'm curious as to what you mean by "difficult", just because I think it may help to have an idea of what kinds of behaviors are you talking about.

    For me, I think one of the main difficulties I had as a young child was speech (pronunciation) and language (understanding and using verbal language), but still I didn't get a diagnosis of autism until later in childhood (there is probably a little more to the aspect of opinion of diagnosis in my case that I don't really feel comfortable sharing on a public forum).

    I'd say when I was very young (perhaps about 3 or 4), part of the social difficulties I had was probably just "observing" and not joining in with an activity/other children (this is NOT based on what I remember (because I can't remember that time) but based on hearsay/reports from my parents). I was completely quiet in school though from 3-4/5 years old, as in, I did not say anything at all (I did have significant language delay (including receptive language delay until about 7 years old) but when I was 4-5 years old I could speak "real" words and (at least at 5 years old) probably short sentences so my expressive language ability was higher than shown at school).

    Anyway, I'm not sure that being that quiet at school would have made me an "easy" child, I guess maybe but at home/outside school I probably was much less of an easy child (e.g. I think I cried quite often). I don't know that I was exactly an "easy" child even at school, but how would I really know since I can't remember during that time?

    However, I personally feel the stereotype of girls are that they are usually more "quiet" or less "active" than boys, also I've read theories that girls with autism perhaps show "masking" (copying others to be "normal") behaviors more than boys, or that the ASD diagnostic criteria is based on diagnosis in boys. Also, statistically diagnoses of ASD in boys are higher than in girls, so maybe boys may be "screened" more often for autism or it may be thought of as more likely than in them (just some thoughts - NOT saying this is necessarily true)?

    To be honest, I personally do not think that "easier" is necessarily better - if I were a child care worker or preschool/kindergarten/elementary teacher, I would want to know what the child's needs and wants were, and I believe communication is a need. So hypothetically if I was in such a position and a child I was in charge of as a child care worker or teacher doesn't want to/is too scared or hesitant to/unable to speak, to me that's fine, and for now the important thing to me is that the child understands what is being asked, and finds a way to communicate by any means. I mean, maybe a child with less challenging behaviors may extract less energy from those close to him or her, but I'd like to know that the child is able to communicate by whatever means.

    I haven't really thought of that maybe girls are less likely to receive a diagnosis of ASD because of less "challenging" behaviors before you mentioned that idea. I think that's interesting; it seems a little similar to the idea of how maybe attention deficit disorder may be less diagnosed in girls especially in those without hyperactivity because they may be less likely to show challenging behaviors.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  20. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    You're right - it helps to know what I'm saying is difficult vs easy.

    I would say I was easy. That is easy for my mom (not me). I didn't talk until I was in second grade. (frustrating for me - I remember not understanding why no one knew what I wanted and stuff) Easy for my parents because I was quiet. My aunt says even as a baby I'd just sit in my crib and entertain myself as she said I was an easy baby. My mom would bring a washrag to church and I'd sit quietly and wash the pew in front of me throughout the service. They didn't have to keep shushing me or take me outside, and wasn't worried about me disturbing others. Easy. Younger years, I created no problems for the teachers, so no phone calls to my parents. Looking back at my report card teachers wrote, I had problems playing with others, not participating and things like that but that I was a pleasure to have in their class. Why - because I sat quietly in one spot. I had problems and problems was visible, but the problems were not disruptive so no need for them to seek help.

    My son was difficult. He had (what I now know to be) loud meltdowns. As a baby he screamed for hours upon hours and I could not sooth him. Let me tell ya - that's difficult, because it makes you and everyone else in the house want to scream and run away. He demanded my constant attention. Difficult because I could never get anything done or do anything I wanted to do except take care of him. He wandered and would end up in dangerous situations. That's difficult. He had fights all throughout school and I was called to the school constantly - it disrupts your life and brings on stress. Difficult. That child today, the parent would not hesitate taking him to be evaluated - and maybe even, hopefully put him on meds to calm him down and make life a little easier for all those around him. (I'm glad I didn't know better at the time - I just thought he was200% boy. lol Plus, Being autistic myself (unknowingly) I would and could never ask for help.)

    Anyhow, I'm saying when a child is disruptive to those around him where it interferes with their ability to live a calm, peaceful life, they are more apt to take the child for some kind of evaluation hoping it will help make THEIR lives easier (more for them than the child).

    Thinking about it, probably why many parents are willing to try the behavior therapies, medications, new and off the wall cures, etc.
     
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