It's one of those things

[onlything]

It's like a shelf.

Only you put things ''in' instead of 'on'

Although,if you clear a shelf, it is still obviously a shelf.

If you empty out your self..

Where is the screaming 'me' ?

Does it need to contain anything to be anything?

Is it like an empty mirror?

The body is like a bodhi tree
The mind is like a bright mirror standing
Fundamentally not one thing exists
So where is the dust to cling?
Hui neng.

So it's a cupboard?

 

[wadorama]

There was a day,maybe a Tuesday,when nobody knew what anything was.

We didn't even know it was a Tuesday .

If I said to you "What's that?"

You wouldn't know. I was just making sounds as far as you could tell.

It didn't mean anything.

It wasn't until years later,if I asked again "What's that?"
You could answer.
"It's one of those things"

In the early days of making a sound and attaching it to a thing, a lot of things did not have a sound.
There wasn't a committee and no chance of camel design.

Difficult to get through your day when nobody knew what anything was.

But,years later, we've got it sorted. I ask you again "what's that?"

"It's a freaking tree"

Now we're operating at an advanced level. "Things" are getting done.
Sounds become things become words become thoughts become insults become satisfying.

What day is it?

"Tuesday"

Everything is going so well, we're building houses,inventing computers and all kinds of stupid stuff.

But what kind of tree is it?

Who cares? It's Tuesday.

There are so many words for even just one thing, and there are so many tones of voice.
When the sounds are made, it can mean the opposite of what the sound should mean.

Those olden days when you didn't know which way was up or even what was up, seem pretty good after all.

I think I realise what has gone wrong.

Sound after sound after sound for no reason.

But what to do about it?

Earplugs.

I can now sit in my house, that I gained from the utilisation of knowledge of things, in complete silence.

What's that?

The voices in my head.

That's another story.

um...you typed this on a saturday. ;o) but i get the first post i think. deepish. far simpler when things were just what things were, before they became what we later chose to name them. heaping language upon reality serves mostly those afraid of reality and trying to obscure it. strong case for pointing and grunting.

 

[wadorama]

The moving finger writes and having writ moves on
Nor all your piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line,
Nor all your tears wash out a word of it.

The start of 2001 a space Odyssey,a man picks up a bone,to represent the first tool. I take the above passage to represent the first time a line in the Sand perhaps, represents writing.

Perhaps the word is the beginning of humanity.
Many animals have sounds that represent danger etc
A kind of language.

What is it that separates us?

tis what tis then. so what complexity of communication makes us sentient versus non? awesome question.

 

[wadorama]

sorry man, feedback has told me that i boil the ocean (condense) too much. =o( hehe...just more words.

 

[SusanLR]

Why do we hear our thoughts?
For the same reason we hear speech externally.
The needed firing of the brain's neurons to hear and think creates what is called corallary discharge.
We think in thoughts of words or images because we have
heard and seen all of our lives the external world.
Studies have been conducted on the interesting question how do the blind and deaf think and dream?
Basically the same as they have experienced.
Smell, taste, touch. And if you believe in the 6th sense being accessed...(unknown). If there was any vision or hearing before the age of 5 - 7 yrs. of age before it was lost,
there will be some images and sounds in REM dream states, but it declines the older the person becomes.

So basically that inner voice of thoughts is our brain producing through the corollary discharge the sound of our own voice controlled by our will of thought instead of an external sound wave.

Things like this thread set my mind's curiosity and need to know off and I can't help myself.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

So basically that inner voice of thoughts is our brain producing through the corollary discharge the sound of our own voice controlled by our will of thought instead of an external sound wave

Do our thoughts belong to us? Are they ours ?

I read somewhere that idea of the conscious mind controlling anything was a delusion.
The subconscious drives it forward.

Perhaps the conscious idea of 'I' is just a useful device the human organism uses .. but to do what?
Small talk each other until replication happens.


.

 

[SusanLR]

Perhaps the conscious idea of 'I' is just a useful device the human organism uses .. but to do what?

The sense of "I" creates the feeling of seperateness in the not knowing what another is thinking. Suppose that is the way we were created.
Not an omnipotent mentality that is aware of the thoughts and feelings of everything that is.
Definitely no sense of "I" then.
At that point you would become like what some think of as God.
All knowing of everything everywhere.
The movie Lucy tried to portray this. In the end quote
" I am everywhere."

The belief that All is One, illustrated simply as the hand is the Cosmos or God conciousness and each finger believes
it is a seperate entity but actually is just a part of the whole hand. The Law of One belief system teaches this.
Personally I believe this way, but, being in this meat suit dimension I cannot know how omipotence feels, let alone prove that is what conciousness is.

Then we must start to define and understand subconscious mine and superconscious mind.

 

[Gracey]

Happy Birthday to yooo.

Happy Birthday to yoooo.

Happy Birrrrrthday Mr Fridge my good fellow.

Haaappy Biiiiiiirthday tooooo yoooooo.

 

[SusanLR]

Oh, my... Happy Birthday Taurus fridge person!

 

[Gracey]

Small talk each other until replication happens.


.

Yes.
Young children learning to talk copy the labels given to objects and items as demonstrated by everyone around them.

Call an item “that”
The child will also call it “that”

“Would you like that?”
“Yes, my want that”

Could be pointing at a ball, apple, glass of milk and so on.


You asked if thoughts are ours.
I think not. Not really.
I believe we are taught.

Example,
Walking along a street with terraced houses on either side with my son when much younger.

We walked passed two items on the ground,
A football,
A paper receipt.
Nobody else was around. Didn’t know who the items belonged to.

I asked my son if he thought it was okay to pick up the football and walk away with it, claim ownership.
He said no.

I asked him if it was okay to pick up the receipt and walk away with it.
He said yes.

I offered that both the receipt and the football belonged to someone.

He said he thought one had value to someone (football)
And one had been discarded (receipt)

He constructed his answer through what he’d been taught about right and wrong (from us, his parents)
He is taught what to think.

His young friend at the time (who wasn’t with us) my son thought, would have taken the football because he’d have wanted to play with it and it appeared that nobody owned that football.

My guess is we are handed our thoughts by everyone we interact with.
Perhaps it’s how we arrange or believe them.

 

[SusanLR]

Those are moral values and language.
Language is learnt. Calling apple, apple. etc
Morals are choice. Both children may be taught the
same about taking the football, but, ultimately it is their choice and will do as their personality dictates.

Thoughts heard internally is in the language we have been taught. But, there are fantastic thoughts also that no one showed us. For example a daydream visualising a far distant fantasy land in another galaxy, etc.
Then we are truly taken what we've seen and arranging
it in our own mental creation.
Sorry if I have misunderstood, but, we/I take everything experienced in our lives and create our own thoughts. In that aspect we do arrange everything we have interacted with.

 

[Gracey]

Where did the “fantasy land from another galaxy” come from?

Perhaps first you have know something, however slight of galaxies.
Know they exist, even if it isn’t a real one.
The word galaxy is learned.
An understanding of what a galaxy may be in order to create a fantasy land is needed.

The idea and or understanding of ‘a galaxy’ came from somewhere.
(Book? Lecturer? Parent/guardian? Documentary? Film?)

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Sorry if I have misunderstood, but, we/I take everything experienced in our lives and create our own thoughts

Who do the thoughts belong to?

We may use the thoughts creatively, but how much of anything is a unique definition?

If thoughts are a toolbox, there may be limits.

A circular bias and limits revealed in the ambiguity of language - never mind the tone of speech and cultural differences which can change the meaning of words over time.

Compared with something like maths.

Will the language of maths have more of objective basis in reality versus that of human thought created through the use of language?

 

[Gracey]

Who do the thoughts belong to?

We may use the thoughts creatively, but how much of anything is a unique definition?

If thoughts are a toolbox, there may be limits.

A circular bias and limits revealed in the ambiguity of language - never mind the tone of speech and cultural differences which can change the meaning of words over time.

Compared with something like maths.

Will the language of maths have more of objective basis in reality versus that of human thought created through the use of language?

I don’t know.

 

[SusanLR]

I don't know either.
Of course all words, maths, knowledge is learned.
But, I contend the thoughts are of are own creation
using everything learned and experienced.
Like the toolbox scenario.

No one is creating what I think consciously.
I reach over to pick up a bottle of water.
It isn't someone else telling my mind to do so.
Even the subconscious is like a large storage compartment for all ever known/experienced/or learning in life.
Always there running without consciously thinking about it.
The only way thoughts are not our own is if you believe in the superconcious mind. The omnipotent collective God mind of all creation.
Accessing that level would have no limits. But, can we do this? If not, then we are limited in thoughts.
Using words that are taught and images that we've seen
put together in our minds by our own brain control, thus becoming our thoughts.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I don't know either.
Of course all words, maths, knowledge is learned.
But, I contend the thoughts are of are own creation
using everything learned and experienced.
Like the toolbox scenario.

No one is creating what I think consciously.
I reach over to pick up a bottle of water.
It isn't someone else telling my mind to do so.
Even the subconscious is like a large storage compartment for all ever known/experienced/or learning in life.
Always there running without consciously thinking about it.
The only way thoughts are not our own is if you believe in the superconcious mind. The omnipotent collective God mind of all creation.
Accessing that level would have no limits. But, can we do this? If not, then we are limited in thoughts.
Using words that are taught and images that we've seen
put together in our minds by our own brain control, thus becoming our thoughts.

Ever played go?
How the Enlightenment Ends

I think the balance of thought could change -
Are you using them or are you being used by them? (Are you falling into biases,definitions that others have set, which stray from the truth)

Or using them -are you able to relay a reality that you understand ,discover something unique.

Your subconscious may be telling you to reach over for a bottle of water...

Or a diet Coke.......

Now who's controlling your mind?

Even people drinking bottled water,where tap water is pretty good...

 

[LucyPurrs]

Ever played go?
How the Enlightenment Ends

I think the balance of thought could change -
Are you using them or are you being used by them? (Are you falling into biases,definitions that others have set, which stray from the truth)

Or using them -are you able to relay a reality that you understand ,discover something unique.

Your subconscious may be telling you to reach over for a bottle of water...

Or a diet Coke.......

Now who's controlling your mind?

Even people drinking bottled water,where tap water is pretty good...

Seems to me this is already happening to some extent. The Go article is fascinating- thanks for the link.

 

[Gracey]

Haven’t read the link yet.

A supermarket manipulates our thoughts the moment we enter.
All is arranged to a plan (devised by really clever people) to use our senses to create need (spending)

Why did we choose to go to that particular supermarket anyway?
Or fill a basket/trolley with certain items?
Pile the shelves high with so much choice in different brands of the same or similar products, we believe we are in control because we’re offered so much choice on those shelves and lucky us, we get to choose.

It’s freedom (of choice) within a rigid boundary.
For example, - take a cleaning product.
The supermarket stocks and displays 15 different brands of one product.
There may be over 120 brands of the same product manufactured in the world today.

15 is a very limited choice considering how many are available.

So which one will you buy from the supermarket?

The most colourful? The most expensive- because if it costs more it must be better?
The new and improved? The one you can get money off with a coupon?
The one that’s reduced for a limited time? The ‘buy one get one free’? The stores’ own brand? The stores’ own branded, chaper, value one?
The one that nudges your fears? (“Kills 99% of germs”)
The one you saw on an advert? the one your friend, colleague or relative recommends?
Choice upon choice upon choice.

How about not buying any, because we don’t really need it?
Even if it claims to be super-duper, all singing-all dancing, unbeatable, best formula ever and fantastic value.

We’re manipulated as soon as we enter the store.
An environment cleverly devised and arranged to give us the idea we need to buy things.

It’s brilliant as a strategy.

 

[LucyPurrs]

Haven’t read the link yet.

A supermarket manipulates our thoughts the moment we enter.
All is arranged to a plan (devised by really clever people) to use our senses to create need (spending)

Why did we choose to go to that particular supermarket anyway?
Or fill a basket/trolley with certain items?
Pile the shelves high with so much choice in different brands of the same or similar products, we believe we are in control because we’re offered so much choice on those shelves and lucky us, we get to choose.

It’s freedom (of choice) within a rigid boundary.
For example, - take a cleaning product.
The supermarket stocks and displays 15 different brands of one product.
There may be over 120 brands of the same product manufactured in the world today.

15 is a very limited choice considering how many are available.

So which one will you buy from the supermarket?

The most colourful? The most expensive- because if it costs more it must be better?
The new and improved? The one you can get money off with a coupon?
The one that’s reduced for a limited time? The ‘buy one get one free’? The stores’ own brand? The stores’ own branded, chaper, value one?
The one that nudges your fears? (“Kills 99% of germs”)
The one you saw on an advert? the one your friend, colleague or relative recommends?
Choice upon choice upon choice.

How about not buying any, because we don’t really need it?
Even if it claims to be super-duper, all singing-all dancing, unbeatable, best formula ever and fantastic value.

We’re manipulated as soon as we enter the store.

You nailed it Gracey! And, for the most part, I refuse to play the supermarket game. But there are countless other ways our behavior and our thoughts are being manipulated by the 1% to sort things more and more to their advantage and make us more and more helpless to do much about it. And it doesn't help that many are almost willfully ignorant.
An environment cleverly devised and arranged to give us the idea we need to buy things.

It’s brilliant as a strategy.

 

[SusanLR]

Psychological manipulation.
Like when companies were told to make prices one penny
less-- $3.99 will lead the people to think that is so much better than $4.00.
Or have the weatherman say tomorrow will be partly sunny instead of partly cloudy.
I thought it was all partly silly.
But, humans have a herd mentality that is easy to manipulate.

Think for yourself. Know the facts. Learn all you can.
I have my own reasons why I buy or don't buy in certain cases.
I like to make my own household cleaners.
Lemon juice works wonders on soap and hard water residues.
Vinegar mixed with liquid soap in a spray bottle of water for everything else. Natural. No chemical worries.

Whether you go for the exhibitions of the companies or use your own reasoning it's still your own thoughts and choice.
Now I'll GO read that link!