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Is there a logical reason to socialize with Neurotypicals?

Ghandi

Active Member
It's been 4.6 days now since I learned about this. At first I was extremely emotional, crying as I reconstructed my models of the world. Then I was excited because I assumed general awareness would translate to understanding. After sharing with my friends, the familiar disappointment hit me - but with this crucial piece of understanding, I now see that this singular assumption, optimistically believing that somebody will see me if I explain myself, is the root of most, if not all of my pain.

Therefore, I have concluded that it is not logical to volunteer information, or share insight unless specifically asked.

These are the logical reasons I can see for communication:

1. Answering direct questions
2. Asking questions while resolving to just listen and never comment on their response.

This seems anti-social from my perspective, but from their perspective, I will appear smart, thoughtful, considerate and quirky.

Am I missing anything?
 
If only it were that simple...

I've seen a lot of "NT" folk volunteer information and that was apparently totally fine. Perhaps it's also what and how you share it that comes with this conundrum.

The notion of a logical approach to socialization is perhaps one of the most aspie things to do, yet I have found that socialising, while skills can be learned, they're not necessarily based upon a diagram. Social convention seems less rational, especially since not everyone adheres to the same social convention model.
 
Is there a logical reason not to? To me this is like asking whether one should socialize with people of different ethnic, religious, and socioeconomic backgrounds---there's absolutely no good reason why one shouldn't.

Based on what you said, you're still adjusting to your ASD---you'll figure it out soon. Some people will care about the fact that you are on the spectrum and some won't. Sharing that information with others is completely up to you. I personally don't have a problem with it. I spent twenty years of my life not knowing about it, but feeling that I was somehow different from other people. Now I know why. So if I feel I have a reason to volunteer that information---as I did in a recent conversation with a new colleague when she asked me if I was nervous because I was talking so much---I do it.

Just don't feel that you have to restrict your social circles, because you don't.
 
King_oni - Thank you - very true and interesting point.

How do you (as in you specifically) determine which things to share?

I'm actually quite good at this (relatively), as I can easily learn what people find interesting and stick to those topics. It's actually easier to meet new people, because all I have to do is find out what interests them and stick to those topics. New people are easier because people that I've known for a while are boring, and thus more difficult to talk to (although can be fun to interact with by watching TV together or playing video games).

Upon meeting someone for the first time, I find it quite enjoyable to gauge competencies based on the logic in their statements alone. This is one of the few things that can cause a genuine smile of great amusement once I've figured them out. Next, their relative intelligence (in my biased opinion) determines the level at which I find them interesting, and also the level at which I will score the accuracy of their information. In this way, I can emulate "common sense" by allowing their information into my models and attributing a statistical probability to their insights. Indeed, you can also gauge how much useful/accurate "common sense" a person possesses by observing their relationships, moods etc. People who are happy generally have more "common sense" in my estimation, although it could also be they're oblivious. Indeed, ignorance is bliss.

In relationships, I'm fun to hang out with because I simply follow my keen sense of empathy and stick to what interests them. However, what I'm now realizing is that anytime I state a fact, I am saying, "I know something you don't". While neurotypicals do this all the time it's also not considered socially "smart" to do so by their peers.

What I'm now considering is that perhaps the best way to do this is by limiting myself to veiling insight through questions instead of making statements. This is often as easy as changing my comment from "I think..." to "Do you think...". This allows me to share information, while appearing to be simply "thinking" about something rather than "knowing" something. I have observed that they are much more comfortable with this - the trick is to modulate my vocal inflection so that my questions sound ponderous rather than challenging.

However, prior to realizing that I'm different, my strong moral sense wasn't comfortable with essentially manipulating people, and thus I never adopted this technique completely. I'm often aware of people being bored or irritated when I'm having fun explaining something. I know I should stop talking or exit the conversation, but my "common sense" tells me that, "If I can make them understand , they will cease to be annoyed."

And so, this is what I mean when I say assuming that somebody will understand me is the root of pain and confusion.

I've also finally seen what "taking things literally" really means. I've never struggled with idioms, I like them and find them fun to use.

Two days after learning about the spectrum, I found myself in a discussion with one of my friends. We were having a great conversation as he's genuinely interested in the details, and has plenty of his own to offer. Suddenly, he started to act a little bit nervous - he looked down, shuffled his feet a little and his hands started to fidget. He said something which I recognized as English, but couldn't recall a single word of it. I asked him to repeat. Again, I still couldn't understand him. The third time, I heard him perfectly. "I often tell people the things you say as if they were true". I immediately said "I'm sorry." "Sorry? Why are you sorry?" he asked. "I thought you were upset about something I told you that wasn't true". After he left, I pondered this and realized that I took the individual phrase "...as if they were true" literally. Indeed, he had correctly said what he was trying to say, as he didn't mean "as if" sarcastically. The next day, I learned that I still hadn't understood what he meant. He claimed that he didn't mean "you" as in "me specifically", but "you" as in "people in general".

Indeed, quite innocently, I had completely misunderstood my friend. And herein lies the deeper problem. People are like Faux pas machines, inadvertently telling you what they really think without knowing it. I believe it's quite possible that in actuality, he probably did tell somebody something that I had said, as the discussion leading to his comment was precisely about something which I had incorrectly assumed.

People do this all the time...they are meaning to tell you one thing when they actually think something else. It's likely they are just trying to protect our sensibilities while simultaneously commenting on something they just realized. They don't see honesty as the truth about what they think, only the truth of what they meant to say.
 
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How do you (as in you specifically) determine which things to share?

I tend to ask myself why someone would need to know about something. Do I need to bother people with, for instance, my AS diagnosis? Only if there's a good reason they should know. Well, my parents should know I think. But I have no real reason to tell my aunt that I'm different and there's a reason for it and such.

As for new people and sharing things; Perhaps you can wonder what your connection to these people is. Are they friends? Co-workers? Family (you never met before)? or distance acquaintances? And eventually wonder what kind of information they would need of you so you can get along with them. In case of an AS diagnosis (to take an example that is also at times something quite personal for quite some people) I don't know if a lot of people will even understand it, let along be well informed. So would they benefit from it? Would you benefit from it? I think this goes to with a lot of information.

If anything I've noticed that a lot of people nowadays don't communicate to exchange information, but merely talk to be busy. The medium is there, yet there is no message to relay.
 
There are more NTs, and many of them are less interested in going on about a special interest and approach conversation less timidly.

Socializing doesn't always need to be about feelings and friendship. I actually prefer it when it's just stimulating discussion. Compared to most people, even others on the spectrum, I'm not really emotionally involved...

I suppose it depends on what someone wants to gain. If people must approve of you and what you have to say, then it's going to be difficult to act in a way that's genuine and bounce back from rejection or other unpleasant experiences.
 
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I always seem to be 'missing' something. My mother says it's my common sense.

But this makes perfect sense to me!!
 
It's been 4.6 days now since I learned about this. At first I was extremely emotional, crying as I reconstructed my models of the world. Then I was excited because I assumed general awareness would translate to understanding. After sharing with my friends, the familiar disappointment hit me - but with this crucial piece of understanding, I now see that this singular assumption, optimistically believing that somebody will see me if I explain myself, is the root of most, if not all of my pain

Amen Brother! Beautifully put!
 
I know I keep saying this in a lot of my other posts - that I've come to the conclusion that I'm an NT. My advice to you and anyone else on this site is to come out and tell the people around you that you're an Aspie. I, for one, would really want to know and appreciate that I was told so that I could understand you better. That's the reason I'm on this site to begin with - because I thought someone had Aspergers and I wanted to get to know them better and I stay because I think all of you are wonderful people. The thing is that I'm Miss Etiquette and hate rudeness. That being said, if you came across as rude to me without me knowing about your "Aspieness", I would be offended thinking that is just your personality and not want a thing to do with you.
 

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