Is there a difference between you and your Asperger's/ASD?

[gouldgrl]

This has been on my mind lately, as I think a lot of people in the larger culture tend to make a distinction between a person and his/her disability, whatever that may be. Perhaps with certain kinds of disabilities this is understandable--even recommended. Personally speaking, however, I think it is misguided for people to separate me from my Asperger's. It would be tantamount to separating a zebra from its stripes or a duck from its webbed feet.

Does anyone else care to weigh in on this?

 

[Ste11aeres]

In Aristotelian-based philosophy, a distinction is made between the "substance" of a thing, and the "accidents" of that thing.
There are ten categories, substance and nine types of accidents. Explained at this link.

Aristotle’s Ten Categories

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/substacc.html

"Bianca" (a person I made up for this example) is a substance. The different things you can say about Bianca are "accidents".
In theory, if an accident of a person changed, the person would still be the same person. However, in reality, while some accidents of a person can change, others cannot change.

I think that, according to this distinction in philosophy, Aspergers would belong to the category of accidents called "quality".

 

[Kari Suttle]

I agree. My (suspected) having AS is what makes me, me. I can't imagine what I would be if I didn't have it. It affects me in too many ways on too deep a level to really separate me from it.

 

[AsheSkyler]

As all things with me, it's complicated. It's not just a nuisance or pleasure I have to deal with, it's also a part of my identity. I am a veggie stew; some of my symptoms are salt or pepper that would give a sense of something missing but not really be missed, and some of my symptoms are carrots and potatoes that would be very noticed and make me quite different if removed.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I do think that the effort some people go to to verbally separate us from ASD is misguided. Well meant, maybe, but misguided. They don't understand that we (most of us at least)are not ashamed of or afraid of being ASD.

 

[Randomperson]

Who we are is based entirely on our mental function and dysfunction. I have first hand experience with how head trauma and brain damage can dramatically alter who we are when said damage hits areas of the brain that contain the personality. In my case I would say the alterations of how I function have been for the better.

 

[ZackSkylar101]

I think that in the end it's just a label for who you are/a part of who you are (dependent on how you perceive it), so I think that it is not possible to separate it out. In an ideal world, you wouldn't need the label and people would just be able to accept that people are different from each other (as if we are using health models, then from my perspective this wouldn't count as an absence of health or a disease, as there is not necessarily a health problem (rather there can be associated problems in specific situations). It is instead a difference between groups, and people are different from each other). The label is helpful, as it allows for all sorts of things that can help ourselves and other people, but in the end it is just a label. If society is able to accept that people can be different and that's ok, and if we could all support each other however much we are able to (whether they fit into one label or another), then that would be wonderful.

 

[lostinspace]

I can't imagine not having AS, in fact until about two years ago when I first heard about it I thought that everybody had it. Now I know that is not true, and that explains a lot.

The only thing I can say is that the world is a very confusing place that does not make sense to me, and it is very hostile towards me for reasons which I do not understand. People are very cruel to me and I don't understand why. Most of my jobs, friendships, and other times I interact with other people end in disaster. Just about every thing I do turns out to be a huge mistake. It is very rare for things to work out for me, and when they do it almost always ends very suddenly and never occurs again.

I am not sure how much of this is because of AS and how much is from something else and if so what is the something else. And, even if I understood what was causing my problem, I am not sure I would know what to do about it. Other people are so alien to me that I don't know how to relate to them.

 

[Nadador]

Hmm. I've been meditating on this puzzler since I asked it on AC, myself, just a week or so ago. It was a new question for me, then, so I had a sliver of doubt about my answer, but that is no longer the case.

My Asperger's is not "me". It inhabits me, but I do not inhabit it. There are essential parts of me...my basic "nature", and the soul-deep beliefs that spring directly from it...that exist discretely, beneath any condition that overlays or overlaps them.

I am not my behaviour or my methods of processing, or any of the other characteristics of my AS. Those are just ways of handling input and output.

I'm also not a sum of the assets and liabilities that go along with my AS. Those are merely aids and hindrances to my human experience.

At the centre of everything is a gentle being, who ultimately draws the conclusions that have built his character, and his overarching world view, based on that singular quality of gentleness.

I am not gentle because of my AS, my Tourette's, my OCD, my panic disorder, and/or everything that comes with those. I am gentle in spite of and surrounding all of those things. It is my gentleness that informs how they operate in me, and what I take from them, never the other way 'round. To me, this says that this lynchpin of my most essential Self is neither dependent on, nor born of, Asperger's Syndrome.

 

[Nadador]

I do think that the effort some people go to to verbally separate us from ASD is misguided. Well meant, maybe, but misguided. They don't understand that we (most of us at least)are not ashamed of or afraid of being ASD.

I don't expect that all of those people necessarily think we're ashamed or afraid. That's an unfair assumption to make of them, I think, no more appropriate than any of them assuming we are those things. You know I admire so many of your thoughts, Ste11aeres, but this one sounds a bit defencive. Do I misunderstand you?

 

[gouldgrl]

In Aristotelian-based philosophy, a distinction is made between the "substance" of a thing, and the "accidents" of that thing.
There are ten categories, substance and nine types of accidents. Explained at this link.

Aristotle’s Ten Categories

http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/substacc.html

"Bianca" (a person I made up for this example) is a substance. The different things you can say about Bianca are "accidents".
In theory, if an accident of a person changed, the person would still be the same person. However, in reality, while some accidents of a person can change, others cannot change.

I think that, according to this distinction in philosophy, Aspergers would belong to the category of accidents called "quality".

Thank you for this wonderful Aristotelian reply! While I cannot brook any disagreement with Aristotle (or Aquinas), I think my question was more directed to how we experience our life on the Autism Spectrum. My having brown hair is, as you said, an accidental aspect of my being and would not change who I am if I decided to bleach it blonde. However, as some have already attested, it is much more difficult to separate who we are from our ASD/Asperger's.

 

[gouldgrl]

I can't imagine not having AS, in fact until about two years ago when I first heard about it I thought that everybody had it. Now I know that is not true, and that explains a lot.

The only thing I can say is that the world is a very confusing place that does not make sense to me, and it is very hostile towards me for reasons which I do not understand. People are very cruel to me and I don't understand why. Most of my jobs, friendships, and other times I interact with other people end in disaster. Just about every thing I do turns out to be a huge mistake. It is very rare for things to work out for me, and when they do it almost always ends very suddenly and never occurs again.

I am not sure how much of this is because of AS and how much is from something else and if so what is the something else. And, even if I understood what was causing my problem, I am not sure I would know what to do about it. Other people are so alien to me that I don't know how to relate to them.

I hope you have found something of a support system here. As I've gotten older, the world makes less sense to me and has, in fact, become more hostile (to my senses and sensibilities). It is a cross to bear, and perhaps for that reason I do find consolation in Christ. God made us this way for a purpose, I am certain of that--even if it's hard sometimes to realize it.

 

[gouldgrl]

I do think that the effort some people go to to verbally separate us from ASD is misguided. Well meant, maybe, but misguided. They don't understand that we (most of us at least)are not ashamed of or afraid of being ASD.

I think there is some truth to what you are saying, such that people, in general, are still uncomfortable with mental illness/disability. Perhaps they transfer that uneasiness onto us. At any rate, by striving to make a distinction between us and our ASD, it allows them to evade dealing with or understanding our experience of the world, which is greatly influenced by our placement on the Spectrum.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I don't expect that all of those people necessarily think we're ashamed or afraid. That's an unfair assumption to make of them, I think, no more appropriate than any of them assuming we are those things. You know I admire so many of your thoughts, Ste11aeres, but this one sounds a bit defencive. Do I misunderstand you?

You're probably right. My post was written without much thought behind it.

 

[Peace]

I would argue that we are what we are made of. We are a product of our genes, our role modeling, and our life's experiences as we were developing. Certain events such as making or missing the game winning play of your championship football game would make a difference in how we perceived things in life. Having Aspergers changed how we saw the world from the beginning, and so must have been part of the fabric of our personality.
And so, there is a difference between you and your Aspergers
"It Is Not Us But Is Part Of Us".

 

[Vanilla]

I think there is some truth to what you are saying, such that people, in general, are still uncomfortable with mental illness/disability. Perhaps they transfer that uneasiness onto us. At any rate, by striving to make a distinction between us and our ASD, it allows them to evade dealing with or understanding our experience of the world, which is greatly influenced by our placement on the Spectrum.

This can be true in some cases. I do feel though that some people may simply be unaware of how to determine what exactly AS is, and so want to know how they would tell, should they run in to another Aspie in future. Of course, we all know different Aspies can vary in traits, but the person asking may not necessarily; which may be the reason they are asking.

I see it almost like meeting someone from a different country, for the first time; one that I may not be very familiar with. I could ask the, what their cultural traditions are, their countries political systems, their social norms. This would not imply that their country defined them entierly; it simply helps me to understand their origins.

 

[AdamR]

In my heart, I think it is misguided for anyone, especially a person who does not share a diagnosis, to make any statements at all that would define another in the context of their condition. No two people's experiences of the same diagnosis are exactly alike, and every individual has the right to define and make distinctions about themselves as they see fit, based on their own self-knowledge.

On the other hand, though, it is a bit unfair to judge members of the public for making what are, really, pro-social statements like what you describe, about an oppressed minority. Don't forget that for ages, it was the opposite problem: The public at large made no distinction at all between a person and their disability/condition, which led to all manner of discrimination and mistreatment. I remember those days all too well. I would say that if the new trend is toward separating the two, don't be bothered by it. It's progress, and there will never be perfection. Expecting everyone to be so well versed in individual conditions, that they would know which ones should be seen from what perspective, is more than a bit unrealistic. The message these well-intended people are, if trying to send is that they see you as a human being, not a walking disorder. I'd say that's not a bad thing.

You may think of yourself as a zebra inseparable from your stripes, while Aspies like Nadador and Peace may believe that what makes them a zebra is what's under their fur. I'd say all of you are correct, but only about yourselves. You all had to do your own searching, of your own souls, to find your answers. If there is disagreement even within the AS community, you certainly shouldn't expect the rest of the world to have a clue.

 

[photoaddict]

I don't think they can be separated fully because I believe that our experiences shape who we become. If my life had been different at any stage, I would not be the person I am today. For example, if I hadn't been homeschooled, I would have failed several subjects, been labeled a brat and given up. I would not have a college degree. Why? Because I'm high functioning, but still have significant struggles that were easily accommodated at home (couldn't have noise? Sit in the bedroom. Need a fidget? Grab one! Need a break before I have a total meltdown? Take a break!) If I hadn't had my son, I likely still wouldn't really understand autism. I wouldn't know the strength that I have because I wouldn't have needed it so badly. I don't think this is really specific to autism, but simply the fact that our lives and experiences mold us into who we are. My experiences are what they are, in part, because of my autism, so if you take that away, I would have experienced life very differently and would be a different person on a different path.

 

[Juturna]

Yes and No. I never really wanted to live by the life of 'oh I have aspergers' so I never have. I've always preferred to look at it as I have traits of it, or certain problems assocaited with Aspergers. I am officially diagnosed, but I look more at the ways Aspergers affects me more than the label itself. All it is is a label to identify my issues and what causes them.

Not that Aspergers is bad, it's just the whole label thing isn't for me. Sexuality wise I don't really fit under a label either. I much prefer to treat my problems, and deal with my issues individually. For instance, I did have major trouble socializing before, and I still have some trouble with it (albeit coupled with an unofficially diagnosis on the side), and I just treat that by dealing with it, learning how to interact better, and what not.

Those traits and whatever issues Aspergers has caused definitely are a part of who I am - but I'm also a firm believer in being able to change and improve what you want about you. Not all of my Aspie traits are bad (the special interests mainly, although they used to be really bad and took over my life, now I'm able to do them in a healthy manner. And now that I think about it I can't exactly remember of the top of my head other traits asides from the ones listed in this post), however while bad socialization and fine motor skills probably came from the aspergers, I say sayonara. I'm going to do my best to overcome them to be able to do and be who I want.

If we're getting philosophical and talk about what it means 'who we are', yes the past definitely shapes who were are today, but again I'm a firm believer in you can be whatever/whoever you want, and there's no really solid answer to who we are. It's just from person to person to decide what that means really.

 

[gouldgrl]

This can be true in some cases. I do feel though that some people may simply be unaware of how to determine what exactly AS is, and so want to know how they would tell, should they run in to another Aspie in future. Of course, we all know different Aspies can vary in traits, but the person asking may not necessarily; which may be the reason they are asking.

I see it almost like meeting someone from a different country, for the first time; one that I may not be very familiar with. I could ask the, what their cultural traditions are, their countries political systems, their social norms. This would not imply that their country defined them entierly; it simply helps me to understand their origins.

Interesting analogy. And one that, I think, will resonate with a lot of people here. However, I would say that it also further supports my claim that NTs often seek to separate us from our Asperger's in an attempt to avoid dealing with it. That is to say, there is a movement afoot to discount cultural differences among people as if they are mere accoutrements to the ¨real¨ person. While it is true that all people have basic needs, beliefs, and pursuits (including people on the Autism Spectrum), cultural differences do impact how we understand and relate to those needs, beliefs and pursuits.