Interesting read on Empathy

[Carrie Elise]

I’ve struggled with the idea of empathy. It’s seems like I either feel too much or I don’t feel anything.

https://humanparts.medium.com/empathy-is-overrated-6cf4090c601e

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

I think there is confusion about empathy. I always felt situations deeply. If a neighbour was ill, I would stay awake crying. But I wouldn't visit them, I couldn't engage that faculty until recently.

Some people define empathy as reaction. They accused me of lack of empathy because I acted cool and understated.

But, when I was gormless, and initiative in my duties was too intense for me, my low performance was thoughtlessness, which genuinely was unempathetic (as undiagnosed, I didn't know how to negotiate).

Thus, intensity is the issue, together with initiative taking. Donna Williams helped me to see these issues.

Additionally, when younger I was ignorant of some emotional issues most people had become aware of. (Probably relating to intensity in learning about delicate subjects.)

Nowadays I use rational method to explore situations and calculate my responses (which are still sparing).

So, rational and methodical can help empathy.

And, now that I know that I can do it, intuition leads my reason to the steps towards the answer, quicker and in more relaxed fashion than before.

 

[Kalinychta]

Interesting essay. What do you think of it? I’m still trying to decide.

 

[Giraffes]

Hi i will read the essay, my response is i'm unsure considering empathy as i always see things from my own value system and perspective, so people being put at a disvandvantage and treated differently based on their position or earning capacity has troubled me, also if in my view a person is wrong and using a power differential to push their point i will always react, if they are 'supposedly' a person in authority or not, guess i'm just me but as a loyal honest me i think they're good honest qualities i try to apply to all, empathy ( i think) is seeing things from others perspectives with-out judgement and i know that's tricky for me.

 

[Giraffes]

Just read the article thanks for that opportunity Carrie Elise agreed with many of the points made as some-one who has a regular nature to "overthink' it gave insight.

 

[Vanilla]

It might help to know that there are essentially two types of empathy. One being cognitive and the other being affective empathy. Autistics apparently have trouble with one kind, and are a lot better at the other (I forget which, but I'm pretty sure we're better at Affective Empathy).

Cognitive Empathy

• Taking another person's perspective
  
  
• Imagining what it's like in another person's shoes
  
  
• Understanding someone's feelings

Emotional (aka. Affective) Empathy

• Sharing an emotional experience
  
  
• Feeling distress in response to someone's pain
  
  
• Experiencing a willingness to help someone

Here's an example article, but if you Google 'cognitive vs affetive empathy' there are a few more references you can look up: How Empathy Can Improve Your Relationships

 

[Aspychata]

I think there is confusion about empathy. I always felt situations deeply. If a neighbour was ill, I would stay awake crying. But I wouldn't visit them, I couldn't engage that faculty until recently.

Some people define empathy as reaction. They accused me of lack of empathy because I acted cool and understated.

But, when I was gormless, and initiative in my duties was too intense for me, my low performance was thoughtlessness, which genuinely was unempathetic (as undiagnosed, I didn't know how to negotiate).

Thus, intensity is the issue, together with initiative taking. Donna Williams helped me to see these issues.

Additionally, when younger I was ignorant of some emotional issues most people had become aware of. (Probably relating to intensity in learning about delicate subjects.)

Nowadays I use rational method to explore situations and calculate my responses (which are still sparing).

So, rational and methodical can help empathy.

And, now that I know that I can do it, intuition leads my reason to the steps towards the answer, quicker and in more relaxed fashion than before.

Discovering that intensity of emotions for me just causes me to just flake out and then deal with the anxiety of feeling that intense. Now l accept that and try to let it go. Intensity doesn't need to feed my anxiety monster.
But l enjoyed reading your system of fait accompli. You wouldn't visit the sick neighbor because of feeling overwhelmed with emotion?

 

[Rasputin]

Interesting essay. What do you think of it? I’m still trying to decide.

The essay is written from the perspective of someone who is autistic, and he supports his position with well thought out arguments. I found myself agreeing with everything he wrote.

When problems have occurred due to my lack of empathy, it is generally due to neurotypicals making a negative judgment about me because I responded rationally / logically in taking action or in offering solutions to problems rather than reacting emotionally. Because I did not share their emotional feelings, I am perceived as uncaring and unfeeling. I do not agree with that shallow, judgmental thinking, but I accept the reality that it rubs people the wrong way. In the spirit of getting along socially I generally keep my opinion to myself and allow people to vent their emotions.

 

[Rasputin]

It might help to know that there are essentially two types of empathy. One being cognitive and the other being affective empathy. Autistics apparently have trouble with one kind, and are a lot better at the other (I forget which, but I'm pretty sure we're better at Affective Empathy).

Cognitive Empathy

• Taking another person's perspective
  
  
• Imagining what it's like in another person's shoes
  
  
• Understanding someone's feelings

Emotional (aka. Affective) Empathy

• Sharing an emotional experience
  
  
• Feeling distress in response to someone's pain
  
  
• Experiencing a willingness to help someone

Here's an example article, but if you Google 'cognitive vs affetive empathy' there are a few more references you can look up: How Empathy Can Improve Your Relationships

I have difficulty with both types of empathy, but probably have more difficulty with Cognitive Empathy.

 

[Kalinychta]

The essay is written from the perspective of someone who is autistic, and he supports his position with well thought out arguments. I found myself agreeing with everything he wrote.

When problems have occurred due to my lack of empathy, it is generally due to neurotypicals making a negative judgment about me because I responded rationally / logically in taking action or in offering solutions to problems rather than reacting emotionally. Because I did not share their emotional feelings, I am perceived as uncaring and unfeeling. I do not agree with that shallow, judgmental thinking, but I accept the reality that it rubs people the wrong way. In the spirit of getting along socially I generally keep my opinion to myself and allow people to vent their emotions.

There’s something about the essay I don’t like, though. It’s scattered, and the author at times doesn’t seem to understand the difference between cognitive and affective empathies (despite that she does define them mid-way through), and she criticizes people for making assumptions about the thoughts, feelings, and motivations of others while doing the same thing herself. Her assertions are also oversimplified. It’s like she’s narrowing human beings and behavior into the concepts of empathy and compassion alone. (I don’t know if that makes sense). Also her sneering tone bothers me. The whole thing reads as very haughty to me. And hypocritical.

 

[Rasputin]

There’s something about the essay I don’t like, though. It’s scattered, and the author at times doesn’t seem to understand the difference between cognitive and affective empathies (despite that she does define them mid-way through), and she criticizes people for making assumptions about the thoughts, feelings, and motivations of others while doing the same thing herself. Her assertions are also oversimplified. It’s like she’s narrowing human beings and behavior into the concepts of empathy and compassion alone. (I don’t know if that makes sense). Also her sneering tone bothers me. The whole thing reads as very haughty to me. And hypocritical.

I just re-read the essay, but did not find the tone sneering or haughty. Overall, I still agree with many of the assertions made.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

I found the essay ref from OP muddly.

As for the scheme quoted by Vanilla I could do 1, 2, 5 and 6 from an early age.

Who would think I wasn't willing to help? If I don't know how (because they don't explain) why would I want to get in the way.

And if they did explain for example they wanted lifting, because my arms were weak why would I waste time when somebody else could step in.

So I don't find the points representative of reality nor do I think they group in that way.

Have now seen Clarke article (couldn't get it earlier).

I do somatic empathy as well. The article generally is muddly.

The article makes too much of "appropriate".

I always dismiss people who make out I'm getting "inappropriate" - when I very rarely do. Clarke is making a fake attempt to seem friendly and I always spot this millions of miles off.

Always blow the whistle on accusatory literature. Unwilling. Inappropriate.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

quote I’ve struggled with the idea of empathy. It’s seems like I either feel too much or I don’t feel anything. unquote

No I don't think you feel too much OR too little. Be proud of your functioning and your faculties. In your own time you can name what you want to name, how you want to name it, and you can give how much thought you want, to what you want to give thought to.

In empathy there are no time limits. I would paraphrase the essay title as: Inaccurate ideas of empathy are overrated (which as I say the body of it didn't bring out clearly).

I'm calm and understated AND emotional. All sane and mature people - of which fortunately there are lots around me - have no problem with my emotions.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

... It’s scattered, and ... Her assertions are also oversimplified. It’s like she’s narrowing human beings and behavior into the concepts of empathy and compassion alone. (I don’t know if that makes sense). Also her sneering tone bothers me. The whole thing reads as very haughty to me. And hypocritical.

This is because she feels too bullied into conforming to the scheme of her "superiors".

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

... i always see things from my own value system and perspective, so people being put at a disvandvantage and treated differently based on their position or earning capacity has troubled me, also if in my view a person is wrong and using a power differential to push their point i will always react, if they are 'supposedly' a person in authority or not, guess i'm just me but as a loyal honest me i think they're good honest qualities i try to apply to all, empathy ( i think) is seeing things from others perspectives with-out judgement and i know that's tricky for me.

You know it's tricky and you use very good judgment because it's important for you to treat those around you as well as you hope to be treated (same view as me).

Unlike these mealy mouthed article writers.

You are a typical example of how we with ASC mainly get ahead of everybody because we don't take anything for granted and know we should put effort in, while bigheads cut corners at our expense.

Bullies want us to "see things from their perspective" i.e abandon our actual and real grasp of right.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

... In the spirit of getting along socially I generally keep my opinion to myself and allow people to vent their emotions.

But keeping your opinions to yourself then, IS rational and logical. Those are never against emotion, they are ideal compliments to it - including level emotion.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

Discovering that intensity of emotions for me just causes me to just flake out and then deal with the anxiety of feeling that intense. Now l accept that and try to let it go. Intensity doesn't need to feed my anxiety monster.
... You wouldn't visit the sick neighbor because of feeling overwhelmed with emotion?

This bloke seems to go round with me, who doesn't get as embarrassing as he used to (self-consciousness) and I like you learned to not mind minding, as it were. That life is loud, is OK. I fear for those that don't have our level of awareness, they have lulled themselves into taking everything for granted. But until my 40s I lived in a sort of soup where I didn't know what anything was.

As for your last question: when quite young maybe I would be frightened to accompany my mum, then later I might not know how to help (see my post 12).

For me all empathy is cognitive and affective and methodical and rational. There is no moral, spiritual or statute law that places me in the wrong in this. I don't care about other people's speed limits.

 

[Wolfgangus Faldestolius]

Just read the article thanks for that opportunity Carrie Elise agreed with many of the points made as some-one who has a regular nature to "overthink' it gave insight.

Glad it did that. You saw round the to my mind unsuccessful attempt at systematising, ignoring it. A lesson to me!

"Overthinking" is a kind of underthinking because it's not going anywhere.

 

[Fino]

It's a bitter and angry rant attempting to justify herself as right and superior and others as wrong and delusional. It also feels like it's made up almost entirely of strawman arguments. Who is advocating for not helping people? I think she misunderstands empathy and this is a backlash towards those in her life who have alienated or hurt her. I'm not sure why I read it.

 

[Aspychata]

This bloke seems to go round with me, who doesn't get as embarrassing as he used to (self-consciousness) and I like you learned to not mind minding, as it were. That life is loud, is OK. I fear for those that don't have our level of awareness, they have lulled themselves into taking everything for granted. But until my 40s I lived in a sort of soup where I didn't know what anything was.

As for your last question: when quite young maybe I would be frightened to accompany my mum, then later I might not know how to help (see my post 12).

For me all empathy is cognitive and affective and methodical and rational. There is no moral, spiritual or statute law that places me in the wrong in this. I don't care about other people's speed limits.

Excellent points, we don't need to classify empathy on any level, it is very much subjective and random and follows no moral or written laws with each unique situation presenting a completely blank canvas on which to present or decline your empathic feelings at that time.