If you had a baby with someone you broke up with or had a fling with

[Jonn]

Or atleast understand a viewpoint that is against procreation.

Recently I found an antinatalist philosopher who makes a good argument for NOT having children.
Essentially it is my way of thinking. I just didn't realise I was an antinatalist until someone pointed it out.
I will find it for you.

 

[Jonn]

@kenaiij

This isn't the person I was talking about but he is saying the same thing:

In February, a 27-year-old Indian man named Raphael Samuel announced plans for an unusual lawsuit. He was going to sue his parents for begetting him. “It was not our decision to be born,” he told the BBC. “Human existence is totally pointless.”

Samuel recently told me over Skype from Mumbai that his is a good life, and he is actually close to his parents. His complaint is more fundamental: he believes it is wrong to bring new people into the world without their consent. He wanted to sue his parents for a symbolic amount of money, such as a single rupee, “to instill that fear among parents in general. Because now parents don’t think before having a child,” he told me.


Samuel subscribes to a philosophy called anti-natalism. The basic tenet of anti-natalism is simple but, for most of us, profoundly counterintuitive: that life, even under the best of circumstances, is not a gift or a miracle, but rather a harm and an imposition. According to this logic, the question of whether to have a child is not just a personal choice but an ethical one – and the correct answer is always no.

I wish I'd never been born: the rise of the anti-natalists

Adherents view life not as a gift and a miracle, but a harm and an imposition. And their notion that having children may be a bad idea seems to be gaining mainstream popularity

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jonn]

Here we go:

People, in short, say that life is good. Benatar believes that they are mistaken. “The quality of human life is, contrary to what many people think, actually quite appalling,” he writes, in “The Human Predicament.” He provides an escalating list of woes, designed to prove that even the lives of happy people are worse than they think. We’re almost always hungry or thirsty, he writes; when we’re not, we must go to the bathroom. We often experience “thermal discomfort”—we are too hot or too cold—or are tired and unable to nap. We suffer from itches, allergies, and colds, menstrual pains or hot flashes. Life is a procession of “frustrations and irritations”—waiting in traffic, standing in line, filling out forms. Forced to work, we often find our jobs exhausting; even “those who enjoy their work may have professional aspirations that remain unfulfilled.” Many lonely people remain single, while those who marry fight and divorce. “People want to be, look, and feel younger, and yet they age relentlessly”:

They have high hopes for their children and these are often thwarted when, for example, the children prove to be a disappointment in some way or other. When those close to us suffer, we suffer at the sight of it. When they die, we are bereft.

The Case for Not Being Born

The anti-natalist philosopher David Benatar argues that it would be better if no one had children ever again.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Jonn]

Well, I don't think people are indoctrinated to have kids because there's no need to do that. They'll have kids no matter what you do. Mother Nature takes care of that.

As I said:
Indoctrination + instincts = unthinking compliance.
Thankfully I didn't have the instinctual component.

 

[kenaij]

@Jonn thnx, very interesting! The story about the guy in the first post I have already heard of. But it was an interesting viewpoint regardless.
My first question towards people that actually believe life is suffering, it is all bad and they wish they never were born is: “what are you still doing here then?” Why not get it over with if it is all bad.
I understand that is just picking a couple of the points regarding this viewpoint. But if people hold so strongly to that viewpoint of life being just miserable. Why go through it. If having to pee is something you consider a thing that makes a life miserable you have just about given up anyway. In my opinion.

 

[Forest Cat]

Here we go:

The Case for Not Being Born

The anti-natalist philosopher David Benatar argues that it would be better if no one had children ever again.

www.newyorker.com

That has to be the worlds most negative man. I would hate having to spend a lot of time with him, imagine the constant complaining about everything. It looks like he wrote a list with all the negative things in life but none of the positive. So of course it will sound bad then. He's just focusing on negative things.

I googled it and from what I read, antinatalism means wiping out the human species. That's the bottom line of it. If people stop having kids, no more species. That seems dark, wanting to eradicate the entire species.

 

[All-Rounder]

Total agreement.

"You need a licence to drive a car, but anyone can breed". as they say.

There are so many bad parents in the world that simply bring misery to their offspring due to their own selfish unthinking desire.
Just saying.

The fact is that nature didn't offer the bad parents such a lack of desire, unfortunately, it is a blind and random occurrence.

 

[All-Rounder]

@Jonn thnx, very interesting! The story about the guy in the first post I have already heard of. But it was an interesting viewpoint regardless.
My first question towards people that actually believe life is suffering, it is all bad and they wish they never were born is: “what are you still doing here then?” Why not get it over with if it is all bad.
I understand that is just picking a couple of the points regarding this viewpoint. But if people hold so strongly to that viewpoint of life being just miserable. Why go through it. If having to pee is something you consider a thing that makes a life miserable you have just about given up anyway. In my opinion.

These links you try to make between things are not necessarily related. Just because you have discomfort in life, doesn't mean you have given up on life or are willing to suicide, or that it is the right choice. Death is painful to people.

 

[Jonn]

Some call me a "mutha", but I will never be a mother.
Have I considered what I would do if I became a father?
Yes.
The child would be my responsibility, and I would do the best I could do for the child to mitigate the brutality of life.

But this consideration is moot since I never have and never will put myself in that position.

 

[Jonn]

These links you try to make between things are not necessarily related. Just because you have discomfort in life, doesn't mean you have given up on life or are willing to suicide, or that it is the right choice. Death is painful to people.

And painful to the ppl that are left behind and who care about you.

I think not wanting to hurt ppl you care about is probably one of the main reasons ppl choose to "soldier on".
It depends on the specific circumstances...
The degree of personal suffering...

Also, all species have the "Survival Instinct", or they wouldn't be in existence in the first place.

 

[Jonn]

I am ready to admit I am not fit for parenting.

Neither am I.
But that is of no consequence since I see no rational reason to bring life into this less-than-benign existence.