• Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

How to tell him

Kayla55

Well-Known Member
Having walked away many times, one day got talking about topic of telling him (NT) what I want in relationship. Conclusion was couldn't draw up list of things I want or keep asking, if person can't do it themself they not a soul mate. And that (at time I thought may be Buddhist) so that we sometimes never meet a soul mate in this lifetime, so best aside from bad childhood to never have kids, maybe in next life when meet someone, it's important to click, more than survival of species.

Is this autism, or something else affecting me.
 
One example is very clear, if he is sitting on date looking at other women, he's not interested, and I'm not going to be so rude as having explain that one to him.
 
Certain men or part of society isn't going to accept to a woman buying man flowers (deemed inappropriate)
Some idiot girl trying to pick up a Mucho guy may provoke negative reaction, not just cause a man is really vocal and entitled to say what he wants but because such type of male may feel don't want slutty girls going around promoting this feministic crap.
 
One example is very clear, if he is sitting on date looking at other women, he's not interested, and I'm not going to be so rude as having explain that one to him.
Seriously, he's sitting on a date with you, and looking at women? 🤦 That's about as bad as a date can get. Smack him with the flower be like, hey, where are you looking.

Something it reminds me of is the scanning that men who were exposed to mature content at an early age tend to do, walk inside a room and start scanning. They say they were stuck in that age.

You want to buy him flowers? What exactly for, to shine some light on that silly turned mug of his? I must admit one rose to do something with like put it in his shirt, suit or shirt pocket sounds like a nice image.

It's not rude to point out you noticed he seems uninterested and always looking at other women which has been messing with the dates. Or to tell him how it makes you feel and what you want and ask if there's something he would like to do on the dates. In fact telling a man what you want can make them fall in love.

Often love and behavior can't be stimulated, but at least you can ask once and see if it's worth to stick around with him making you feel like this for the rest of your days and if he really cares he might do something about that or talk to you. If he doesn't, maybe you should meet him somewhere else where there are no women, that's in the case this man is worth pursuing and can actually offer something back.

Well I have the oddest impulses, I've drawn flowers and love cards for Valentines' day for my guy exes and wrote tons of love poems for them. Christmas is just another reason for romance ❤️‍🔥(although statistically most couples break up in December).

But maybe men don't like getting flowers like we do, they like getting bracelets or shoe polish\leather cleanser, (car) perfume that smells like flowers? 😆 Or like a flower petal bath and he certainly will be looking. 🙀

I do hope you get to live your dreams, every woman deserves to feel loved and express it.
 
"couldn't draw up list of things I want or keep asking, if person can't do it themself they not a soul mate" - well for one you want him to pay attention to you on a date and be interested, and he needs to give you clues on what captivates him and what he would like to do together that he thinks is fun. If someone isn't actively pursuing you or trying to make you feel special, it does sound like they're rather just settled in and no longer enjoying the romantic side of things, at a point relationships can turn like a companionship, and could change to involve romantic love again but they have to want that. The only type of love that lasts a lifetime includes companionship, commitment and romantic or passionate love.

7 Types of Love But Only One Lasts a Lifetime

"sometimes never meet a soul mate in this lifetime" - let that not be a reason or an excuse to not look for your soulmate and seek happiness, it's a universal right

When we love we are vulnerable, sharing our vulnerabilities in productive and healthy ways can strengthen emotional connection, and even trust.
 
Certain men or part of society isn't going to accept to a woman buying man flowers (deemed inappropriate)
Some idiot girl trying to pick up a Mucho guy may provoke negative reaction, not just cause a man is really vocal and entitled to say what he wants but because such type of male may feel don't want slutty girls going around promoting this feministic crap.
About this, in my opinion you should disregard the “certain men or part of society“ the deem flowers inappropriate. Those people probably don’t and should not matter.
I do hope the flowers are not for the guy looking around the room (if that is what he is doing).
On men receiving flowers… I think most men might think it is different or out of the ordinary, but the person best suited for you would probably appreciate it.
I realized about five years ago that no one had ever given me flowers. As a man I would never expect someone to buy me flowers but I decided it would be nice if it did happen.
I spent age 16 - 35 buying flowers for dates, girlfriends, and eventually a wife. After my divorce my kids started bringing me flowers when they came to visit and it is wonderful.
Two women I dated gave me flowers and that made a huge impression on me and I kept them till they fell apart.
I keep several vases in the event I get any and love it when I get flowers!
Personally I think it is awesome for a woman to give a man flowers, but I am not like a lot of other men I think.
If a woman gave/gives me flowers I would/do unequivocally take notice and interest.
IMG_2061.jpeg


I also want to thank @All-Rounder for the types of love link! Good info and it sent me down a rabbit hole to learn more on building emotional intimacy. Thank you, I appreciate you.
 
Last edited:
About this, in my opinion you should disregard the “certain men or part of society“ the deem flowers inappropriate. Those people probably don’t and should not matter.
I do hope the flowers are not for the guy looking around the room (if that is what he is doing).
On men receiving flowers… I think most men might think it is different or out of the ordinary, but the person best suited for you would probably appreciate it.
I realized about five years ago that no one had ever given me flowers. As a man I would never expect someone to buy me flowers but I decided it would be nice if it did happen.
I spent age 16 - 35 buying flowers for dates, girlfriends, and eventually a wife. After my divorce my kids started bringing me flowers when they came to visit and it is wonderful.
Two women I dated gave me flowers and that made a huge impression on me and I kept them till they fell apart.
I keep several vases in the event I get any and love it when I get flowers!
Personally I think it is awesome for a woman to give a man flowers, but I am not like a lot of other men I think.
If a woman gave/gives me flowers I would/do unequivocally take notice and interest.
View attachment 135073

I also want to thank @All-Rounder for the types of love link! Good info and it sent me down a rabbit hole to learn more on building emotional intimacy. Thank you, I appreciate you.
You're so very welcome, I'm glad to hear that.

The art inclined have more interest in the beauty and colors of flowers. I used to ask men about colors, they were so uninterested and only seemed to know generic colors. At a point I read it's common for men. But I've always wanted to meet someone who had different views on colors and was fascinated by more than the main ones and could name them. And I know some girls had the same problem with guys.

I love flowers with a scent, you wake up and the room is filled with color, elegant petals in frail and voluminous stems and this wonderful natural scent, there is nothing to compare to it. In the flower season I bought myself flowers, and when somebody gives me flowers it's a gift that will bring me joy every day for a while and I switch them up, arrange them in different ways, remove the dying, ribbon them to get them looking best every day.
 
Last edited:
Having walked away many times, one day got talking about topic of telling him (NT) what I want in relationship. Conclusion was couldn't draw up list of things I want or keep asking, if person can't do it themself they not a soul mate. And that (at time I thought may be Buddhist) so that we sometimes never meet a soul mate in this lifetime, so best aside from bad childhood to never have kids, maybe in next life when meet someone, it's important to click, more than survival of species.

Is this autism, or something else affecting me.
One example is very clear, if he is sitting on date looking at other women, he's not interested, and I'm not going to be so rude as having explain that one to him.
Certain men or part of society isn't going to accept to a woman buying man flowers (deemed inappropriate)
Some idiot girl trying to pick up a Mucho guy may provoke negative reaction, not just cause a man is really vocal and entitled to say what he wants but because such type of male may feel don't want slutty girls going around promoting this feministic crap.
Obviously, if you've read some of my posts, you know that I have been with the same woman for nearly 40 years. We've figured things out by now. However, I am also very much autistic from a social and communication perspective and understand what that means in terms of initiating and maintaining a relationship. I am also Gen X, so I am rather in the mindset of gender roles, chivalry, treating a woman like a lady, being protective, being mentally and physically strong, and not putting up with other people's crap.

At lot to chew on here in these 3 posts, but just some thoughts:

(1). If you are autistic, like me, you will likely have some degree of "mind-blindness" in the sense that the only perspective you can fully appreciate is your own. You are not a mind reader. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that I have zero idea what my wife is thinking at any given time. I will never, ever know her. This is my curse, and I have to live with that. I always have to ask her things. If I try to put myself in her shoes and come to some conclusion as to what she might be thinking, I will likely be wrong, and again, this is someone I've lived with for some 40 years. It's the type of silent disability that, if you don't recognize it and accept it, it will destroy a relationship in short order.
(2). On the other hand, it is also common for many autistics to not have a lot of facial expressions and have their voice inflections, body language, and other non-verbal communication match their verbal communication. We've had these discussions about someone "looking" autistic, as in a photo. Once you recognize it, it becomes rather obvious, but I tend to see it more in adult males. This general lack of facial muscle engagement around the eyes, forehead, cheekbones, and mouth. It can come off as rather "unexpressive", and if someone is seeing this, it's very difficult for them to "read". At any rate, it's all this nuanced, micro-expressions, voice intonation, body language, etc. that most neurotypicals key in on and respond to during day-to-day interactions. Something that many autistics struggle with. Within the context of your comment above about your partner not recognizing your needs and wants, and expecting him to just "know" is not fair at all. I always have to ask. I don't understand hints, either. It has zero to do with being some sort of soul-mate. My wife and I are soul mates, but we still have to communicate effectively.
(3). There are males that are insecure and are struggling with that in rather toxic ways, usually controlling behaviors (mentally and physically), but also tend to be loud, boisterous, dressing a certain way, driving certain types of vehicles, all in some attempt to come off as "tough" or "alpha". When presented with a strong, independent woman, they will either reject or try to control. Best to steer clear of this sort of man.
(4). Looking at other people we find attractive, watching porn, reading those "romance novels", is not always a sign that they are unsatisfied with their partners. We are human beings and marriage is something relatively new to our species. Sure, there are plenty of good reasons to have a committed, monogamous relationship with someone, that's well established and no argument there. However, to expect you or your partner to not look at someone physically attractive is not realistic. Sure, if you are insecure, it may come off as disrespectful. If you are not insecure in your relationship, then it's something you can tease each other about. I know my wife loves watching action movies with me, not for the movie, but for these finely built, muscular actors, like Chris Hemsworth in Thor. She reads at least one "romance" novel a week, and there's a lot of descriptive sex in those pages. I know that when we go out to a restaurant, there might be some guy in there that will catch her eye. At 58 years old, when I see that, I know she hasn't given up on life, but it doesn't stop me from playfully teasing her about it from time to time. It's OK.
(5). Then you bring up "feminist crap". Having grown up with feminism in the 70's until now, it has really changed. My wife is an "old school" feminist. Very independent, has her career, makes her own money, doesn't take any crap from men. However, still grounded in the fact that she recognizes the benefits of marriage, a strong and respectful husband and father to her children, and that men, in general, are responsible for building and maintaining nearly all the modern conveniences and infrastructure that she enjoys in the modern world. The modern feminist narrative is that men are worthless, stupid, and disposable, and blind to the fact that the internet connection and satellites that are spreading that information are built and maintained by roughly 80% men. That the car they drive, the home they live in, the roads, the electricity, the heating and air-conditioning, the trucks that brought them their food and clothing, the clean water they use, primarily there for her because of men. So, yes, when a man is presented with one of these idiots, it's a complete turnoff. Furthermore, when this "feminist" woman expects the man to be over 6 feet tall, have a 6-pack of abs, make a 6-figure income, (less than 0.1% of the population) and not expect her to contribute to the relationship, but to just take care of her in this one-sided relationship as if they are a queen and the man is her servant, men are just going to say, NO. Then the woman gets upset and can't figure out why men are not interested in her. Well, pull your head out of your behind, sis. Not to mention the adverse effects upon children that do not have a strong, engaged father in their life: https://americafirstpolicy.com/issu...text=In one study, 70% of,to get As in school.

A lot here, but just a few thoughts on the topic.
 
Last edited:
Try to limit unnecessary and personal details but for educational purposes I've decided to open up and discuss problems with being a-sexual female.
Firstly it's in bible that women must give husband sex, or the theory on to keep your man. But in truth I didn't feel happy about sexual favours whilst pregnant, it made pregnancy smutty in my eyes.
I clearly remember going off to the shop to choose my own baby food, didn't like mom-in-laws choices, but didn't want to be rude and say anything. So I bought box of Nestle rice porridge, and still remember looking at picture of baby bird and thinking of not licking babies spoon, despite brushing my teeth. Being playful that day, I tried my all sorts of variations of car parking in baby's mouth garage, and whatever. Honestly I was unhappy about his BJ and smutty and had much later spoken to mommy dearest who said some tribes that don't allow man near women until child is about 2 years old, maybe in old traditions had more than 1 wife so it worked. To this day it's in my head about it whenever see baby being fed. Its inability to multi-task or transition between hoe in bedroom vs mother and choice of purity/Nestle etc.
It's really difficult when you not designed for this world and pressured by baby, pressured to make relationship work, giving up all your views and values and feeling empty and unhappy...
Just like masking.

A point above was about men who make blatant public attacks at feminists who attempt to make first move and for Asperger female it can be real social rejection experience that stands out. Should we be running around picking up men a la Japanese manga fantasies, not so sure. If she initiates sex moves it could just leave her prone to womanizing and one night stands where men doesn't receive message that he must stick around as he's finished hunting and hence Asperger female is left feeling lonely, unaccepted in relationships and used.
 
Not sure if this is me or other females agree, but noticing immaturity or tendency to overheat men discussing sexual details of encounters is such a turn off. Absolutely avoidant of these types of guys and placing myself in local gossip, rather be by myself.
If he has this quality well there's nothing to discuss he moves straight to reject list if this is how men behave, I want no part of it.
 
Obviously, if you've read some of my posts, you know that I have been with the same woman for nearly 40 years. We've figured things out by now. However, I am also very much autistic from a social and communication perspective and understand what that means in terms of initiating and maintaining a relationship. I am also Gen X, so I am rather in the mindset of gender roles, chivalry, treating a woman like a lady, being protective, being mentally and physically strong, and not putting up with other people's crap.

At lot to chew on here in these 3 posts, but just some thoughts:

(1). If you are autistic, like me, you will likely have some degree of "mind-blindness" in the sense that the only perspective you can fully appreciate is your own. You are not a mind reader. In fact, I have come to the conclusion that I have zero idea what my wife is thinking at any given time. I will never, ever know her. This is my curse, and I have to live with that. I always have to ask her things. If I try to put myself in her shoes and come to some conclusion as to what she might be thinking, I will likely be wrong, and again, this is someone I've lived with for some 40 years. It's the type of silent disability that, if you don't recognize it and accept it, it will destroy a relationship in short order.
(2). On the other hand, it is also common for many autistics to not have a lot of facial expressions and have their voice inflections, body language, and other non-verbal communication match their verbal communication. We've had these discussions about someone "looking" autistic, as in a photo. Once you recognize it, it becomes rather obvious, but I tend to see it more in adult males. This general lack of facial muscle engagement around the eyes, forehead, cheekbones, and mouth. It can come off as rather "unexpressive", and if someone is seeing this, it's very difficult for them to "read". At any rate, it's all this nuanced, micro-expressions, voice intonation, body language, etc. that most neurotypicals key in on and respond to during day-to-day interactions. Something that many autistics struggle with. Within the context of your comment above about your partner not recognizing your needs and wants, and expecting him to just "know" is not fair at all. I always have to ask. I don't understand hints, either. It has zero to do with being some sort of soul-mate. My wife and I are soul mates, but we still have to communicate effectively.
(3). There are males that are insecure and are struggling with that in rather toxic ways, usually controlling behaviors (mentally and physically), but also tend to be loud, boisterous, dressing a certain way, driving certain types of vehicles, all in some attempt to come off as "tough" or "alpha". When presented with a strong, independent woman, they will either reject or try to control. Best to steer clear of this sort of man.
(4). Looking at other people we find attractive, watching porn, reading those "romance novels", is not always a sign that they are unsatisfied with their partners. We are human beings and marriage is something relatively new to our species. Sure, there are plenty of good reasons to have a committed, monogamous relationship with someone, that's well established and no argument there. However, Sure, if you are insecure, it may come off as disrespectful. If you are not insecure in your relationship, then it's something you can tease each other about. I know my wife loves watching action movies with me, not for the movie, but for these finely built, muscular actors, like Chris Hemsworth in Thor. She reads at least one "romance" novel a week, and there's a lot of descriptive sex in those pages. I know that when we go out to a restaurant, there might be some guy in there that will catch her eye. At 58 years old, when I see that, I know she hasn't given up on life, but it doesn't stop me from playfully teasing her about it from time to time. It's OK.
(5). Then you bring up "feminist crap". Having grown up with feminism in the 70's until now, it has really changed. My wife is an "old school" feminist. Very independent, has her career, makes her own money, doesn't take any crap from men. However, still grounded in the fact that she recognizes the benefits of marriage, a strong and respectful husband and father to her children, and that men, in general, are responsible for building and maintaining nearly all the modern conveniences and infrastructure that she enjoys in the modern world. The modern feminist narrative is that men are worthless, stupid, and disposable, and blind to the fact that the internet connection and satellites that are spreading that information are built and maintained by roughly 80% men. That the car they drive, the home they live in, the roads, the electricity, the heating and air-conditioning, the trucks that brought them their food and clothing, the clean water they use, primarily there for her because of men. So, yes, when a man is presented with one of these idiots, it's a complete turnoff. Furthermore, when this "feminist" woman expects the man to be over 6 feet tall, have a 6-pack of abs, make a 6-figure income, (less than 0.1% of the population) and not expect her to contribute to the relationship, but to just take care of her in this one-sided relationship as if they are a queen and the man is her servant, men are just going to say, NO. Then the woman gets upset and can't figure out why men are not interested in her. Well, pull your head out of your behind, sis. Not to mention the adverse effects upon children that do not have a strong, engaged father in their life: https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/issue-brief-fatherlessness-and-its-effects-on-american-society#:~:text=In one study, 70% of,to get As in school.

A lot here, but just a few thoughts on the topic.
For claims made on number 4, you cannot claim to speak for our species. Each human being has their own boundaries and would choose or not to involve porn and disloyalty in an otherwise loyally labeled relationship. For the open marriage again, people can have a lot more than that. There's the middle ground, or flirt\porn relationship, which is the least preferable in my opinion, like for one the terms are unclear, people made marriage vows sometimes that they actually don't technically respect but that's another can of worms, and it's also just so limited and purposeless. If you want to pop the boundaries and be free then you really have to live it. Otherwise what's the point of playing around with the idea?

My opinion anyway, I wouldn't make myself an example to anyone. But I do admire sincere commitment in the truth of the word, and working on perfecting it and dedicating to a person is very fun and worthy. As well as open relationships and polygamy.

There is also sex and porn addiction which takes many years of therapy to cure, and leaves partners very unhappy and losing trust because the connection, interest, attraction is completely destroyed between partners and causes erectile dysfunction. Then the thing with porn causing people to become sexually deskilled when faced with real human beings and develop fetishes that are unrealistic, racist, harmful. Some clueless people copying the films disregard consent and think people are actually into being done such and such.

"to expect you or your partner to not look at someone physically attractive is not realistic. " Speaking of yourself again.

The insecurity thing, that's what happens when you haven't considered there can be other people with other perspectives, personalities, definitions and preferences. It's also an agenda pushed by people who are entitled.

Terms of a relationship that are decided to agree on, including pornography and flirting are considered cheating if breached. Takes several seconds to Google it.

I would not push this agenda on somebody who clearly feels very different about these things than select individuals and deserves happiness and someone who feels the same way she does, and can match and "soulmate" her. It's totally worth going for someone like that. It's about knowing yourself shamelessly.

It also sounds like you were trying to go for a naturalistic fallacy there.

"At 58 years old" that's a long time to have not gained any wisdom. Lol kidding I just had to do it. Sorry, sorry! 😂
 
Last edited:
Try to limit unnecessary and personal details but for educational purposes I've decided to open up and discuss problems with being a-sexual female.
Firstly it's in bible that women must give husband sex, or the theory on to keep your man. But in truth I didn't feel happy about sexual favours whilst pregnant, it made pregnancy smutty in my eyes.
I clearly remember going off to the shop to choose my own baby food, didn't like mom-in-laws choices, but didn't want to be rude and say anything. So I bought box of Nestle rice porridge, and still remember looking at picture of baby bird and thinking of not licking babies spoon, despite brushing my teeth. Being playful that day, I tried my all sorts of variations of car parking in baby's mouth garage, and whatever. Honestly I was unhappy about his BJ and smutty and had much later spoken to mommy dearest who said some tribes that don't allow man near women until child is about 2 years old, maybe in old traditions had more than 1 wife so it worked. To this day it's in my head about it whenever see baby being fed. Its inability to multi-task or transition between hoe in bedroom vs mother and choice of purity/Nestle etc.
It's really difficult when you not designed for this world and pressured by baby, pressured to make relationship work, giving up all your views and values and feeling empty and unhappy...
Just like masking.

A point above was about men who make blatant public attacks at feminists who attempt to make first move and for Asperger female it can be real social rejection experience that stands out. Should we be running around picking up men a la Japanese manga fantasies, not so sure. If she initiates sex moves it could just leave her prone to womanizing and one night stands where men doesn't receive message that he must stick around as he's finished hunting and hence Asperger female is left feeling lonely, unaccepted in relationships and used.
There are many trials for pregnant women in terms of intimacy on many levels and husbands aren't always understanding. Managing depressive symptoms in pregnant women during the pregnancy period is very important.

That's because purity in general is unable to be separated from the dirty side, especially in the case when you do have feelings for the person. Or I guess in your case, with pregnancy, I feel like it's more like you want the pregnancy in itself to be cherished in some ways that you found an inability to include physicality in a manner that you would think compatible and maybe you didn't have the chance to talk about all these feelings.

Speaking of energy, it sounds like you were giving (sexual) energy, without actually gaining any. Quality sex is about energy, doing it when you're ready and not wasting time when it's not built up, because it leaves you with a bad feeling in your mouth and a lack of looking forward to the next. A lot of women have to learn to have quality sex and give themselves the time and care to get there. Sometimes the duty of pleasing a mate overtakes focusing on yourself. Other times fear of loss, but it's just an illusion. You're more likely to attract a mate and wanna keep him if you are yourself and practice self care and self interest.
 
Last edited:
For claims made on number 4, you cannot claim to speak for our species. Each human being has their own boundaries and would choose or not to involve porn and disloyalty in an otherwise loyally labeled relationship. For the open marriage again, people can have a lot more than that. There's the middle ground, or flirt\porn relationship, which is the least preferable in my opinion, like for one the terms are unclear, people made marriage vows sometimes that they actually don't technically respect but that's another can of worms, and it's also just so limited and purposeless. If you want to pop the boundaries and be free then you really have to live it. Otherwise what's the point of playing around with the idea?

My opinion anyway, I wouldn't make myself an example to anyone. But I do admire sincere commitment in the truth of the word, and working on perfecting it and dedicating to a person is very fun and worthy. As well as open relationships and polygamy.

There is also sex and porn addiction which takes many years of therapy to cure, and leaves partners very unhappy and losing trust because the connection, interest, attraction is completely destroyed between partners and causes erectile dysfunction. Then the thing with porn causing people to become sexually deskilled when faced with real human beings and develop fetishes that are unrealistic, racist, harmful. Some clueless people copying the films disregard consent and think people are actually into being done such and such.

"to expect you or your partner to not look at someone physically attractive is not realistic. " Speaking of yourself again.

The insecurity thing, that's what happens when you haven't considered there can be other people with other perspectives, personalities, definitions and preferences. It's also an agenda pushed by people who are entitled.

Terms of a relationship that are decided to agree on, including pornography and flirting are considered cheating if breached. Takes several seconds to Google it.

I would not push this agenda on somebody who clearly feels very different about these things than select individuals and deserves happiness and someone who feels the same way she does, and can match and "soulmate" her. It's totally worth going for someone like that. It's about knowing yourself shamelessly.

It also sounds like you were trying to go for a naturalistic fallacy there.

"At 58 years old" that's a long time to have not gained any wisdom. Lol kidding I just had to do it. Sorry, sorry! 😂
A lot to chew on here. I understand where you are coming from. I have heard these arguments before. However, I think you are pushing toward the extremes when you are speaking of sex and porn addition, not where I was going at all with that comment. Furthermore, when it comes to glancing and recognizing an attractive person from afar is not, in and of itself, have anything to do with being "faithful" to your partner. Flirtatious behavior in a non-serious, joking way, (as can happen within a group of friends and laughing) is rather benign because there's nothing behind it. There is a tremendous amount of nuance when it comes to this sort of behavior. It certainly isn't black and white. Having said that, and more to your point, and I agree, you have to know people within its context and perspective. Obviously, there are people who have certain, religious beliefs, certain sensitivities, perhaps were victims of adultery, etc. that will have objections to this sort of behavior even if there is, as I suggest, "nothing behind it". I heard this saying several times growing up with adults of my generation, "You can look at the TV picture, but you can't touch the knobs." I think this is a more realistic perspective in life when it comes to you and your significant other. I can't control another person. I do honestly believe that it is realistic that people will look at other people, and sure, a few of them will be attractive, and you might appreciate that beauty and take a second look. My wife and I are very secure with each other and trust each other implicitly, and have all along our 40 year journey.

I do tend to treat human beings as biological organisms. My wife and I are in healthcare. I study human behavior from a global, anthropological perspective, because social and cultural norms are more localized. What may be acceptable behavior in my life experience, might not be in yours, and I totally recognize that, and you certainly pointed that out with me. All good. However, I wouldn't call my comments a "naturalistic fallacy", per se. I tend to view humans as a few hairs from being baboons, and with that, there are a LOT of instinctual behaviors that haven't changed throughout the millennia, that I see play out in the modern world.

Not many people at 58 years old can say they've been in a fully committed, loyal, loving relationship with their partner for some 40 years. We're doing something right, unlike the vast majority of relationships that fail. So, yeah, I can say I have a bit of wisdom on the topic. ;) Furthermore, I might suggest, given the abysmal success rate of relationships, the current trends in relationship "advice", and thoughts surrounding relationships, might be wrong. The people these psychologists and therapists need to sit down and talk to, are couples like us.
 
Last edited:
A lot to chew on here. I understand where you are coming from. I have heard these arguments before. However, I think you are pushing toward the extremes when you are speaking of sex and porn addition, not where I was going at all with that comment. Furthermore, when it comes to glancing and recognizing an attractive person from afar is not, in and of itself, have anything to do with being "faithful" to your partner. Flirtatious behavior in a non-serious, joking way, (as can happen within a group of friends and laughing) is rather benign because there's nothing behind it. There is a tremendous amount of nuance when it comes to this sort of behavior. It certainly isn't black and white. Having said that, and more to your point, and I agree, you have to know people within its context and perspective. Obviously, there are people who have certain, religious beliefs, certain sensitivities, perhaps were victims of adultery, etc. that will have objections to this sort of behavior even if there is, as I suggest, "nothing behind it". I heard this saying several times growing up with adults of my generation, "You can look at the TV picture, but you can't touch the knobs." I think this is a more realistic perspective in life when it comes to you and your significant other. I can't control another person. I do honestly believe that it is realistic that people will look at other people, and sure, a few of them will be attractive, and you might appreciate that beauty and take a second look. My wife and I are very secure with each other and trust each other implicitly, and have all along our 40 year journey.

I do tend to treat human beings as biological organisms. My wife and I are in healthcare. I study human behavior from a global, anthropological perspective, because social and cultural norms are more localized. What may be acceptable behavior in my life experience, might not be in yours, and I totally recognize that, and you certainly pointed that out with me. All good. However, I wouldn't call my comments a "naturalistic fallacy", per se. I tend to view humans as a few hairs from being baboons, and with that, there are a LOT of instinctual behaviors that haven't changed throughout the millennia, that I see play out in the modern world.

Not many people at 58 years old can say they've been in a fully committed, loyal, loving relationship with their partner for some 40 years. So, yeah, I can say I have a bit of wisdom on the topic. ;)
I can trust my man, and I can want to lust, but I don't condone it in loyalty based relationships. I mean, I can lust on my own person\people.

You know I'm the least religious person on the site, hardcore atheist. I also have enough sensitivity to involve myself in polygamy. These arguments that people's feelings and reactions toward security monogamy are inherently unnatural and should be rid of are weak. A partner's concern for the safety of their monogamy, with failure in the species is important and should be seriously considered. Not wanting to sex lots of people isn't unhealthy.

You are saying your wife you vowed for is on the screen and not another person. Or that you will now pick up video chats with random hoes and it'll be acceptable so far as you won't touch them. Anyway you can push a point to make it seem innocent but it's really clearly not genuine, and I know how you make the loops but I don't loop stuff to create illusions, it's deceptive. So you guys wanna look at people naked, fine. So far as saying it's the same as abstaining of involving another person sexually according to vows or an idea of a clean monogamy, I disagree.

Well there is data for a fact involving the hardship of being monogamous, with the roots of human behavior, so I do expect it to be somewhat rare.

I've been partnered in various ways with various people since 15, more heavily and non stop 17. Been mono and poly and sexbuddies, multiple personality partner etc. I don't want to compete with you as we have different branches we supposedly excel at (relationships sometimes end out of a difference of compatibility, inexperience and disloyalty and last for no good reason) and different supposed studies.

Just because something is natural doesn't make it moral, or accurate to a certain description we are discussing. I find it hard to behave like animals without thinking about my purposes and values. And of course I am very different to you and your desires or your label preferences, I'm much more precise in my speech. I've talked to plenty of people like you and like me. The no porn monogamy stuff is really big these days, and I like that it comes as a discredit of the former mainly male led entitlement fad with a purpose to shame the different somehow make it sound like it's unhealthy to be wanting something else. I do me, you do you, it's how it's meant to be.
 
Last edited:
I can trust my man, and I can want to lust, but I don't condone it in loyalty based relationships. I mean, I can lust on my own person\people.

You know I'm the least religious person on the site, hardcore atheist. I also have enough sensitivity to involve myself in polygamy. These arguments that people's feelings and reactions toward security monogamy are inherently unnatural and should be rid of are weak. A partner's concern for the safety of their monogamy, with failure in the species is important and should be seriously considered.

You are saying your wife you vowed for is on the screen and not another person. Or that you will now pick up video chats with random hoes and it'll be acceptable so far as you won't touch them. Anyway you can push a point to make it seem innocent but it's really clearly not genuine, and I know how you make the loops but I don't loop stuff to create illusions, it's deceptive. So you guys wanna look at people naked, fine. So far as saying it's the same as abstaining of involving another person sexually according to vows or an idea of a clean monogamy, I disagree.

Well there is data for a fact involving the hardship of being monogamous, with the roots of human behavior, so I do expect it to be somewhat rare.

I've been partnered in various ways with various people since 15, more heavily and non stop 17. Been mono and poly and sexbuddies, multiple personality partner etc. I don't want to compete with you as we have different branches we supposedly excel at (relationships sometimes end out of a difference of compatibility, inexperience and disloyalty and last for no good reason) and different supposed studies.

Just because something is natural doesn't make it moral, or accurate to a certain description we are discussing. I find it hard to behave like animals without thinking about my purposes and values. And of course I am very different to you and your desires or your label preferences, I'm much more precise in my speech.
Once again, I think you are going down some other "rabbit hole" of thought that I wasn't talking about. Polygamy? No. Video chats with random hoes? No. That's a lot more than a random glance at a beautiful person. A lot more engagement in your examples.

Right now, I am regretting the off-hand remark of porn. It seems to be triggering a path of thought that I didn't intend. Again, not my intent. Let's move on.

Cultural, social, and moral norms are very localized. Like I said earlier. I recognize and respect those differences between us.
 
You just said that as long as you don't touch it's okay. You forgot?

You: <<"You can look at the TV picture, but you can't touch the knobs." I think this is a more realistic perspective in life when it comes to you and your significant other>>

It's only realistic you cam sex with people, they can do anything, but you won't touch.
 
You just said that as long as you don't touch it's okay. You forgot?

You: <<"You can look at the TV picture, but you can't touch the knobs." I think this is a more realistic perspective in life when it comes to you and your significant other>>

It's only realistic you cam sex with people, they can do anything, but you won't touch.
No. That's not how that works. With cam sex, you're interacting with this other person. It's a whole different dynamic. That comment was more in the realm of appreciating another person's beauty without acting out in lustful ways. It's that interpersonal interaction, with meaning and intent, that would be interpreted as being "unfaithful".

All said and done here. Morals, cultural norms, social sensitivities aside, at some point there must be some level of self-control and discipline, or else none of this works. With my wife and I, there is a lot of that. We can compartmentalize different types of sexual behavior, we know where the boundaries are, and we've navigated that for a long, long time with commitment and trust. Apparently, there isn't enough focus upon self-discipline, which then gets interpreted as "moral weakness". We are doing something right that the vast majority of others, apparently, aren't able to. As I suggested earlier, it makes me wonder if most of the relationship advice out there might not be correct or have the proper focus.
 
No. That's not how that works. With cam sex, you're interacting with this other person. It's a whole different dynamic. That comment was more in the realm of appreciating another person's beauty without acting out in lustful ways. It's that interpersonal interaction, with meaning and intent, that would be interpreted as being "unfaithful".

All said and done here. Morals, cultural norms, social sensitivities aside, at some point there must be some level of self-control and discipline, or else none of this works. With my wife and I, there is a lot of that. We can compartmentalize different types of sexual behavior, we know where the boundaries are, and we've navigated that for a long, long time with commitment and trust. Apparently, there isn't enough focus upon self-discipline, which then gets interpreted as "moral weakness". We are doing something right that the vast majority of others, apparently, aren't able to. As I suggested earlier, it makes me wonder if most of the relationship advice out there might not be correct or have the proper focus.
With porn the person interacts with you this same way but it's filmed in past tense. You don't touch but you lust and receive the interaction and stimuli output for you. So really it's just the same thing, but the fact that you don't have the ability to talk back but you can in your mind. And I think connection happens in the mind as well with a human you can talk to, not purely physical.

The ability of thinking lustful thoughts about somebody's body parts without acting them out. You give yourself that permission, though. It's not like you're unable to avoid it, you just don't want to stop riding and maintaining these patterns when you're in a relationship.

But it works without your mentioned discipline too, as long as there is respect and communication. In fact, I don't know why people aren't honest enough to admit it can work given the stuff they already do. Such people are some of the most insecure, if there is to be any comparison.
 
Think men are going to look because men are visual. And some women do this also. My boyfriend is thrilled if a guy flirts with me because he can fluff up his feathers and feel self-assured that l will be leaving with him. If a lady flirts with him, l tell him, oh dear, l thought she was trying to pick you up. It's harmless fun, can make him smile, and we have a comical moment. I truly believe that every relationship has it's own set of dynamics.
 
Last edited:
Think men are going to look because men are visual. And some women do this also. My boyfriend is thrilled if a guy flirts with me because he can fluff up his feathers and feel self-assured that l will be leaving with him. If a lady flirts with him, l tell him, oh dear, l thought she was trying to pick you up. It's harmless fun, can make him smile, and we have a comical moment. I truly believe that every relationship has it's own set of dynamics.
Exactly.

Example: About 2 years ago, my wife and I went to the local farmers market. Walking around shopping for fruits and vegetables, another couple walks in, I would guess late 30's, early 40's. The woman is wearing this bright red dress, looked great on her, but then I also noticed the implanted medication catheter under her skin under her left clavicle. That told me that she and her husband had been through a lot. Cancer is devastating and scary. She probably lost her hair, probably had some self-image issues she was working through. My wife and I, both in healthcare, we recognized it. At any rate, we ended up at the cashier about the same time. We paid for our goods, I looked back at her and said, "That dress looks great on you." She lit up with a smile. I quickly turned away and walked out with my wife and never said another word. As my wife and I were getting into the car, my wife turned to me and said, "That was sweet of you."

My wife and I have the wisdom to understand that many women as they get older begin to worry about their appearance and it tends to affect their self-esteem and confidence. As a husband, I can tell my wife she is beautiful, but the typical response is, "Oh, you're just saying that because you have to. You're my husband." Which might be taken a bit as an insult, but you have to recognize the psychology of her perspective. Any compliments a husband may give her might not be believed. Sure, compliments are appreciated, but not really believed because in her head she doesn't see herself that way. Now, if some random stranger compliments her, well that is going to be more impactful than her husband, which is some strange, twisted phenomenon, but a very real thing.

With regards to her husband, he's probably going to be thankful for that compliment because I just confirmed what he already knows and has been telling her. She's beautiful. If that comment had come from some random single man and was actively flirting with her, he would have found that threatening and stepped in. In our case, neither was true. I was married, with my wife present, and I wasn't flirting.

It's not what you do but rather how you do it. Context and perspective are really important considerations. Not all of this type of behavior leads to "unfaithfulness" nor is "threatening" to the relationship. In fact, in specific circumstances, may actually enhance it, as in the case above.

As a couple, you need to be able to compartmentalize certain sexual behaviors and know boundaries. If you have the intellect for that, then "one thing does not lead to another". They become independent things and the relationship is protected behind this invisible barrier. If you are intellectually unable to do any of this, then I might suggest not being in a relationship because human beings are sexual creatures and trying to deny our nature only leads to stress, trust, and control issues that can tear two people apart.




 
Last edited:

New Threads

Top Bottom