How do you communicate?

[Len Huppe]

1. Be honest.
2. Be open.
3. Be kind.
4. Be vulnerable.

That's all I can think of right now.

Being honest, open and kind are good values to live by. Being vulnerable however is not something I had thought much about, at least not in those terms. So I looked it up and found some information. I will include at link below. It was a real eye opener for me so I thank you for the reading tip. Great post!

8 Habits Of Actively Vulnerable People

 

[Len Huppe]

My experience with my ex girlfriend leads me to believe that I was supposed to respond to things which were not openly expressed, like, I was just supposed to know how she was feeling or what I was doing wrong

B****** be crazy.

Or like I am completely clueless and missing very obvious things in front of my face

It's one or the other

Welcome to the clueless club! What you are saying sounds all too familiar. People communicate a lot of information about how they feel non-verbally, especially women. If you are an Aspie it can be very difficult to interpret those messages. I need not tell you how maddening that is. What we must never forget is that its equally maddening for our partners. I was one of those who did not fully appreciate that fact and now I am paying for it. I know that couples counseling is one way to get help in that area.

 

[Len Huppe]

It's hard to know. Language clearly is a manufactured construct that was not part of our existence forever. Clicks and whistles and pointing and drawing and rhythms were......Then we learned to put these sounds into a symbol. It's not even natural. THEN we learned to write which is newer still than talking. And now we are supposed to think we as a species mastered it? And further, master what others are saying?? PERVERSE!

Words just bother me now. They are fake and false and unnatural. I hate them.

You sound like a linguist to me. I think that you offer us an excellent analysis of the situation. However I respectfully disagree about words being fake and false. That is unless you are referring to the way that words are used today. In that case I would agree that we are accosted on a daily basis by false information. Good post.

 

[menander]

You sound like a linguist to me. I think that you offer us an excellent analysis of the situation. However I respectfully disagree about words being fake and false. That is unless you are referring to the way that words are used today. In that case I would agree that we are accosted on a daily basis by false information. Good post.

Thanks for the discussion! Yes, I mean language is false. I do not think it is natural to the human brain. Not words, anyway. Urges to communicate, yes. But words are not natural.

 

[Len Huppe]

Thanks for the discussion! Yes, I mean language is false. I do not think it is natural to the human brain. Not words, anyway. Urges to communicate, yes. But words are not natural.

When I think about language and the way that its in a constant state of change the word that comes to my mind is arbitrary. But that is me and I am only an amateur linguist. Agreed ... Thanks for the great discussion!

 

[onlything]

My experience with my ex girlfriend leads me to believe that I was supposed to respond to things which were not openly expressed, like, I was just supposed to know how she was feeling

Also my experience. Which is why if I have to start to communicate regularly with a new person, I make one thing clear: that I can be oblivious and focused on my projects at times and that if they don't tell me that something is wrong, I may not realise it myself. I found it helps quite a bit, since I try to portray it as openly and honestly as possible and to never judge or get defensive when people do tell me that, indeed, something is wrong. It helped with my boss, with other employees, at some point with my very passive-aggressive flatmate even (and wasn't that surprising when she came to me one night, all nervous and stressed, and told me what's the problem - something changed very easily and now we talk like normal people lol)!

I simply put it calmly: I'm not looking for confrontations of any kind but for proper communication and harmony in our relationships. Seems to work so far.

 

[Barymore]

What do we do if our partner is not open to compromise? I think then the only thing left to do is move on. No?

Unfortunately we dont usually reach that point in time simultaneously.

However, that presupposes we are hearing each other correctly in the first place. It took me a long time and a searing experience to understand that words may be said that mean very different things to different people. How you hear a message also depends on your experiences and background. I may understand that we agreed on XY and feel the other person confirmed this, yet later realise this is not the case. What I mean to say - finding someone with a similar style is a huge advantage. Otherwise it may be you can listen as attentively as you can, you wont hear what is being said.

 

[Jumpback]

What do we do if our partner is not open to compromise? I think then the only thing left to do is move on. No?

Unfortunately we dont usually reach that point in time simultaneously.

However, that presupposes we are hearing each other correctly in the first place. It took me a long time and a searing experience to understand that words may be said that mean very different things to different people. How you hear a message also depends on your experiences and background. I may understand that we agreed on XY and feel the other person confirmed this, yet later realise this is not the case. What I mean to say - finding someone with a similar style is a huge advantage. Otherwise it may be you can listen as attentively as you can, you wont hear what is being said.

Is your, I think you said your wife, an introvert or an extrovert?

I had an extroverted roommate who reminds me a bit of Sophia Vergara from “Modern Family,” he is also a Hispanic immigrant, and it was impossible not to know his opinions on everything I was doing wrong. It was very taxing, but I could not not know what was expected of me most of the time.

My ex-gf is an introvert, and she told me she told me things, but I swear she never did. She doesn’t talk excessively and she dislikes confrontation. Like I think that sometimes maybe she said something really quick once and I just missed it, or maybe she thought I heard her but I didn’t. So when she broke up with me after our first real argument I was almost thinking that like ‘this has got to be a joke,’ I didn’t even realize that you were seriously unhappy with me.

I mean, I got along fantastically in general with my ex-gf, it was far less stressful than with all the arguing with an emotional extrovert who likes to argue for arguing sake, but just on this one point, I really wish she was more like that extroverted roommate I had.

Like the difference was like with the roommate, one time he woke me up to yell at me about not closing the shower curtain, because if you don’t close the shower curtain it gets moldy. This was really irritating, but he did have a good point and I knew what was expected of me. Like better getting woke up to be yelled at a few times about what exactly I am doing wrong so I know what I am doing wrong and still have a sweet girlfriend.

 

[Matthias]

Hi Everyone,

I am feeling down following a recent break up and need to talk. My girlfriend kept telling me that we needed to communicate better. Now I keep hearing those words over and over again in my mind and wondering what I could have done differently. For me communication was difficult from the start.

My question for the community is how do you communicate? When I am faced with conflict I tense up and my mind goes blank. Its very similar to PTSD where the person goes into flight mode and just wants to get away. Its really hard to think or respond when I am in that place.

I know that some of you have overcome this and I really want to know how you did it.

Thank you in advance

I had the same problem and overcame it. Many people incorrectly think other people's words or actions cause them stress, tension, or unwanted emotions. It's actually your own thoughts that are causing it. The pattern is as follows:

Other people's words or actions -> Thoughts -> Emotions -> Behavior

The reason some people get stressed easily while others hardly ever get stressed is because they think differently. The solution is to change the way you think. Here is a link to a short 6 minute video that explains it. If you think it may be helpful there are 7 more short videos in the series that helped me greatly.

 

[cnn]

Are you familiar with Sheldon from Big Bang Theory? He was writing social contracts. You may think of BroCode of Barney in a similar context.

Recently, I wrote a basic communication memo to make it clear how i would like to communicate with my close circle. I color coded each point; such as "I will tolerate communication accidents as Orange or I will retreat as Black".

If things feel getting out of hand, I refer to the colors, so far seems useful.

 

[Jumpback]

I had the same problem and overcame it. Many people incorrectly think other people's words or actions cause them stress, tension, or unwanted emotions. It's actually your own thoughts that are causing it. The pattern is as follows:

Other people's words or actions -> Thoughts -> Emotions -> Behavior

The reason some people get stressed easily while others hardly ever get stressed is because they think differently. The solution is to change the way you think. Here is a link to a short 6 minute video that explains it. If you think it may be helpful there are 7 more short videos in the series that helped me greatly.

I seriously think that you have an excellent point with talking about this, and are doing a real service trying to convince people to better themselves. I’m not sure that I agree with all your conclusions, but I see your attempt to help as truly noble.

But the thing is it’s just hard to change your way of thinking, or like, in my case, start being a list maker when I hate making lists

It’s almost like being morbidly obese and needing to eat healthier and needing to go work out. Change is hard. And it sucks trying to get better at things you are bad at. But sometimes like morbidly obese people need personal trainers to congratulate them for trying and yell at them for not showing up at the gym

I kind of wish that I had overseer for a little while kind of forcing me to go watch CBT videos and make lists and so on, just for my own good, because what I have been doing is not working. But, the thing is that I just do not want change because even thinking about all the things that I am struggling with or things that I need to change or things that I need to get better at just to begin to approach “normal” people’s competencies are just not fun things to think about.

I dunno, every time I have seen you mention such things it just reminds me that I had better stop being a dumbass and try something that seems like it will be helpful

 

[Matthias]

I seriously think that you have an excellent point with talking about this, and are doing a real service trying to convince people to better themselves. I’m not sure that I agree with all your conclusions, but I see your attempt to help as truly noble.

But the thing is it’s just hard to change your way of thinking, or like, in my case, start being a list maker when I hate making lists

It’s almost like being morbidly obese and needing to eat healthier and needing to go work out. Change is hard. And it sucks trying to get better at things you are bad at. But sometimes like morbidly obese people need personal trainers to congratulate them for trying and yell at them for not showing up at the gym

I kind of wish that I had overseer for a little while kind of forcing me to go watch CBT videos and make lists and so on, just for my own good, because what I have been doing is not working. But, the thing is that I just do not want change because even thinking about all the things that I am struggling with or things that I need to change or things that I need to get better at just to begin to approach “normal” people’s competencies are just not fun things to think about.

I dunno, every time I have seen you mention such things it just reminds me that I had better stop being a dumbass and try something that seems like it will be helpful

Changing how you think is not nearly as hard as it seems. With self-help books, it doesn't matter if anyone believes you or understands you. Unlike some therapists, the author of the "feeling good" book I recommended isn't judgmental or condescending. The book is very easy to read. I think you'll find it easier and more helpful than reading and writing posts on this forum.

Here's a link to the book I read (it's $5.65 for a used copy on eBay):
Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns 9780380810338 | eBay

 

[The Notorious LFC]

Ah yes, those moments when our minds go off in multiple directions and people wonder what on earth we are talking about. Been there and done that too I am afraid. I will be discussing the possibility of medications to help with that issue in an upcoming appointment. Have you considered doing the same?

No, I'd rather just deal with it.
It's handy for battling since it helps with not running out of ideas.

 

[Jumpback]

Changing how you think is not nearly as hard as it seems. With self-help books, it doesn't matter if anyone believes you or understands you. Unlike some therapists, the author of the "feeling good" book I recommended isn't judgmental or condescending. The book is very easy to read. I think you'll find it easier and more helpful than reading and writing posts on this forum.

Here's a link to the book I read (it's $5.65 for a used copy on eBay):
Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns 9780380810338 | eBay

I tried to order it, but it looks like there is something wrong with my payment method. I’ll report back when I get this done

 

[Rasputin]

Hi Everyone,

I am feeling down following a recent break up and need to talk. My girlfriend kept telling me that we needed to communicate better. Now I keep hearing those words over and over again in my mind and wondering what I could have done differently. For me communication was difficult from the start.

My question for the community is how do you communicate? When I am faced with conflict I tense up and my mind goes blank. Its very similar to PTSD where the person goes into flight mode and just wants to get away. Its really hard to think or respond when I am in that place.

I know that some of you have overcome this and I really want to know how you did it.

Thank you in advance

Len, I am not someone you should learn from because I am very much like you. Despite that my wife is more accepting since my diagnosis. Next week we are celebrating our 28 year anniversary, and she deserves a lot of credit for that. What I have learned (but don't necessarily practice consistently) are:

(1) Concentrate on listening and just being present.

(2) Resist your instinct to solve every problem that frustrates her. If anything, guide her to the solution. My wife gets frustrated and I naturally start thinking logically to offer a solution to her problem, which infuriates her. Then she complains that I don't understand how she feels and have no empathy. I don't have an answer for this because I suck at empathy.

(3) Try to be attentive, thoughtful, and nice on your own without prodding. I generally suck at this also.

(4) Refrain from talking about your special interests, because she probably does not share your interest. We Aspies have spent a lifetime pursuing our interests and doing what we want, and therefore we come across as self-centered or possibly even arrogant. We need to redirect our focus onto things that interest our significant other and help out with home chores without being asked. Again just because I know these things, it doesn't mean I practice these habits consistently. I have 60 years of bad habits to unlearn which is not easy.

Lastly, focus on being romantic without being assertive. Women like to be pampered, but they also like to feel a measure of being in control. If you have difficulty picking up on cues as we all do, try to not be uptight and just go with the flow without thinking.

Those are my thoughts, and they are things that I need to do better myself.

 

[Barymore]

@Rasputin that is sound, practical advice that many (asd or not) could profit from! Points 3-4 are quite Aspie specific and things I have needed to work on esp.

@FormerlyAutistic I agree that how we receive messages is a big issue influencing how we react / what we say and this is based on how we think. However, I do not agree that this is easy to change. While CBT can successfully address what we think (the video is really nice!), changing the non-verbal emotional associations that underpin and often are seperate to what we think are not. This is one of the recognised limitations of CBT and other cognitive approaches. Changing ingrained patterns of affect (feelings etc) is recognised as hard. Suggesting it is not may make people feel they just havent tried hard enough, which is not the case. I spent a long time working with CBT approaches and therapists, wondering why it wasnt working for me, because it made such sense! When we shifted to more emotion based approaches such as MBCT things changed more rapidly. People are different.

@Jumpback interesting point on the introvert / extrovert axis.... my wife is perhaps more introvert than extrovert, however she communicates well and frequently! I do know of a person close to me (NT-NT) who was in a relationship for a long time until she was left "suddenly" for reasons that had not been raised once in the previous years. I find that terribly unfair. It removes someones right to selfdetermined change! I feel for your experience with that ex-gf!

 

[onlything]

I seriously think that you have an excellent point with talking about this, and are doing a real service trying to convince people to better themselves. I’m not sure that I agree with all your conclusions, but I see your attempt to help as truly noble.

But the thing is it’s just hard to change your way of thinking, or like, in my case, start being a list maker when I hate making lists

It’s almost like being morbidly obese and needing to eat healthier and needing to go work out. Change is hard. And it sucks trying to get better at things you are bad at. But sometimes like morbidly obese people need personal trainers to congratulate them for trying and yell at them for not showing up at the gym

I kind of wish that I had overseer for a little while kind of forcing me to go watch CBT videos and make lists and so on, just for my own good, because what I have been doing is not working. But, the thing is that I just do not want change because even thinking about all the things that I am struggling with or things that I need to change or things that I need to get better at just to begin to approach “normal” people’s competencies are just not fun things to think about.

I dunno, every time I have seen you mention such things it just reminds me that I had better stop being a dumbass and try something that seems like it will be helpful

Being aware of the need to change and trying to see your options is the first step. The rest will come with time, sometimes it can take weeks or months, or years. As soon as you decide that yes, this is what you want to do, it will start happening. In time, you'll get better.

The key is changing something small that you do every day, changing or creating a part of your typical routine. For example, to make a habit of planning, you can start by taking out a piece of paper and putting it on your desk every day. A few days later you can do it and set up a few empty bullet points. Then write one or two that you can think of.

It's not a great change you have to do today, just start on a few small steps that will direct you towards it. Don't rush, don't blame yourself. It's okay to go slow.

 

[Jumpback]

@Rasputin that is sound, practical advice that many (asd or not) could profit from! Points 3-4 are quite Aspie specific and things I have needed to work on esp.

@FormerlyAutistic I agree that how we receive messages is a big issue influencing how we react / what we say and this is based on how we think. However, I do not agree that this is easy to change. While CBT can successfully address what we think (the video is really nice!), changing the non-verbal emotional associations that underpin and often are seperate to what we think are not. This is one of the recognised limitations of CBT and other cognitive approaches. Changing ingrained patterns of affect (feelings etc) is recognised as hard. Suggesting it is not may make people feel they just havent tried hard enough, which is not the case. I spent a long time working with CBT approaches and therapists, wondering why it wasnt working for me, because it made such sense! When we shifted to more emotion based approaches such as MBCT things changed more rapidly. People are different.

@Jumpback interesting point on the introvert / extrovert axis.... my wife is perhaps more introvert than extrovert, however she communicates well and frequently! I do know of a person close to me (NT-NT) who was in a relationship for a long time until she was left "suddenly" for reasons that had not been raised once in the previous years. I find that terribly unfair. It removes someones right to selfdetermined change! I feel for your experience with that ex-gf!

I tend to go to the the MBTI in my head a lot because it’s the best reference I can come up with. The extroverted roommate I had tested as a very clear ENFJ, and I test as an INTP, only remotely borderline on the T/F. For whatever reason, he could not control his need to tell me what I was doing wrong, but he also recognized that I am a lot more rational and consistent than he is and when I took him seriously on some things, but told him he was wrong about other things he seemed to take me seriously since I didn’t discredit everything he said. Just the communication with him and I worked better than with the introverted girlfriend. A lot of the time I don’t know why I write things, but it just occurred to me to mention this

 

[Matthias]

I tried to order it, but it looks like there is something wrong with my payment method. I’ll report back when I get this done

Okay. You may want to check the address in your eBay account. If it doesn't match your payment method because you didn't update it after moving, it won't let you order. It's always worth checking if you haven't ordered anything in awhile. I once had something shipped to my old address and had to drive over an hour to pick it up.

 

[Barymore]

"I tend to go to the the MBTI in my head a lot because it’s the best reference I can come up with."

I dont know much about the MBTI, will go and have a look!