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History Channel

You guys like this stuff I Learned As a kid my dad, forced labourer taken off street as teenager watched ever show he could on the war to see why as If you in the game you have no idea what was going on He even took a university course in history, got the highest mark Professors had a luncheon planned for him and he passed, I like this stuff know a lot, not my top special interest. nephew, has masters degree in history, his professor tried getting him to continue to PHD. My nephew majored in history minored in physics. top student.
 
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Judge said:
Seems you misunderstood my use of terms like "moral" and "righteous".
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Misunderstandings happen all the time, especially in autistic forums. ;)

Judge said:
Consider the Nuremberg Trials of 1946. The intent to impose due process on former Nazi leaders but also with the intent to convict them by any means and either imprison them, or execute them.

- Their moral conviction. Not mine.

Which essentially backfired when the British and Americans realized Stalin's plans for their portion of occupied Europe. When suddenly our former enemies better served us as new allies.
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I recently watched a video revealing that Churchill had considered a plan for going to war with the Soviets after the WWII, but it was rejected due to the vast numerical differences.
2.5 million Allied forces against 11 million Soviets?
Don't quote me.

Judge said:
Some us are very much aware of the Soviet Union's decision to murder most of Poland's officer corps (22,000), done in the Katyn Woods in 1940. Which would later be exposed by the Nazis who later occupied the area and conducted quite the field autopsy, all for propaganda purposes. But it wasn't staged or a lie.

Nothing righteous or moral about accepting the Russians as allies in 1941. That was pure pragmatism. Not to mention already knowing how Josef Stalin oppressed his own people in staggering numbers, particularly the purges of their own officer corps in the late 30s apart from forced collectivization. A contributing factor to the German's initial success of Operation Barbarossa".
:fearful:
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Yes, the soviets were as brutal as the nazis, especially when you consider the number involved.
The Soviet genocide of Ukrainians before World War II is known as the Holodomor.That is the historical name used today, but the event itself happened in 1932–1933, several years before WWII began.
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Jonn said:
I recently watched a video revealing that Churchill had considered a plan for going to war with the Soviets after the WWII, but it was rejected due to the vast numerical differences.
2.5 million Allied forces against 11 million Soviets?
Don't quote me.
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I suspect Winston was thinking in terms of the Allies having the bomb that the Russians allegedly didn't have. But then neither Winston or other Brits, Americans and Canadians seemed to be aware of Klaus Fuchs. Which would certainly put a spin on that question in just a few years. :oops:

Luckily Harry Truman had a more balanced vision of the post-war world. Though that it became a bi-polycentric one split east and west. All compounded when Russia exploded their first a-bomb in 1949, effectively launching a cold war that could no longer be envisioned as a "hot" one.

Churchill was quite the enigma. Personally brave, but also reckless. Following his father's precarious political career as a member of Parliament. Worse when war came in 1914, and the Gallipoli disaster. I think the First World War took away some of his "piss and vinegar", but clearly not enough to keep him from making more errors in judgment.

Thus his memories as expressed in terms of "triumph and tragedy". A very complex fellow. Small wonder the British people voted him out as soon as the war in Europe ended.
 
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Judge said:
I suspect Winston was thinking in terms of the Allies having the bomb that the Russians allegedly didn't have. But then neither Winston or anyone else seemed to be aware of Klaus Fuchs. :oops:
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They made a recent film about that.

Agreed.
Some believe the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a signal to Stalin, as was the bombing of Dresden.

Judge said:
Churchill was quite the enigma. Personally brave, but also reckless.
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I found it amusing that it has been reported that Churchill knew about the oncoming bombing of Coventry, and hightailed it out of harm's way. lol

Judge said:
Following his father's precarious political career as a member of Parliament. Worse when war came in 1914, and the Gallipoli disaster. I think the First World War took away some of his "piss and vinegar", but clearly not enough to keep him from making more errors in judgment.
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His reputation suffered greatly for that disaster, yes.
The Gallipoli campaign is remembered as one of the greatest military disasters of World War I, and Winston Churchill’s name is permanently tied to it. The modern historical consensus paints a nuanced picture: Churchill was a key architect of the plan, but he was not solely responsible for the catastrophe.
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Jonn said:
I found it amusing that it has been reported that Churchill knew about the oncoming bombing of Coventry, and hightailed it out of harm's way. lol
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He did have a peculiar gift of foresight. Yet he could be like a bull in a china shop. Strange, but it just made the man human I guess. Though my kin on the other side of the pond continue to view him as an enemy of our people, along with Margaret Thatcher. Go figure.
 
Judge said:
He did have a peculiar gift of foresight. Yet he could be like a bull in a china shop. Strange, but it just made the man human I guess. Though my kin on the other side of the pond continue to view him as an enemy of our people, along with Margaret Thatcher. Go figure.
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My problem was his hatred of Germans, though admittedly, I haven't researched him greatly.
 
Jonn said:
My problem was his hatred of Germans, though admittedly, I haven't researched him greatly.
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He certainly had no problem telling people who he didn't like. Starting with the Boers who imprisoned him. I suspect his similar sentiments about the Germans evolved with the First World War, and increased when the Weimar Republic disappeared off the map.

But then Gallipoli was his fault. The Turks were simply defending their homeland with some rather well-made machine guns from Germany and Austria-Hungary, along with other weapons and munitions. A very dynamic personality, for better and for worse. :confused:
 
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LOL...maybe we should discuss T.E. Lawrence. Another very complicated man from Britain.

Another "enigma", but he was certainly no Winston Churchill, either. He loathed being under any spotlight.


I love the desert as well. So much so I moved there. ;)
 
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Both you guys know history well, self taught or degreed. Churchill was a brilliant public speaker and being part American impressed the brits.
 
Ronald Zeeman said:
Both you guys know history well, self taught or degreed. Churchill was a brilliant public speaker and being part American impressed the brits.
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Seems everything about him seemed complicated. Especially his own brand of politics. Resulting in him taking political persecution from both the Tories and the Liberals. And his devotion to his dysfunctional father Randolph. Admirable, yet also very sad.

Such a complicated man...though I suppose many great leaders in history were as such. Yet when I think of Stalin and Hitler, the first thing I think of is what both had in common. Fathers who severely abused them mentally and physically.
 
Judge said:
Seems everything about him seemed complicated. Especially his own brand of politics. Resulting in him taking political persecution from both the Tories and the Liberals. And his devotion to his dysfunctional father Randolph. Admirable, yet also very sad.

Such a complicated man...though I suppose many great leaders in history were as such.
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I remember when he died, had no idea who he was all over the news, learned later.
 
Ronald Zeeman said:
Both you guys know history well, self taught or degreed. Churchill was a brilliant public speaker and being part American impressed the brits.
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Self-taught.
I have a very logical brain, refined critical thinking skills, and I am motivated in finding the Truth rather than support any narrative. :cool:
 
Judge said:
LOL...maybe we should discuss T.E. Lawrence. Another very complicated man from Britain.

Another "enigma", but he was certainly no Winston Churchill, either. He loathed being under any spotlight
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This is the history thread.
Dig up some desert dirt on him.
 
Judge said:
Seems everything about him seemed complicated. Especially his own brand of politics. Resulting in him taking political persecution from both the Tories and the Liberals. And his devotion to his dysfunctional father Randolph. Admirable, yet also very sad.

Such a complicated man...though I suppose many great leaders in history were as such. Yet when I think of Stalin and Hitler, the first thing I think of is what both had in common. Fathers who severely abused them mentally and physically.
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He looked like a bulldog.
That is the best I can say about him. :cool:
 
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