Higher empathy for animals?

[Rodafina]

One would actually prefer to read what you think, in your own words.

I think you like to tell people what to do and how to think and I don’t like that. In what I have read from you, there is little respect for others’ lived experience. I try to let you be you, but equating speciesism with slavery is too much for me.

 

[Polchinski]

So if an African slave trader sells a slave to you, you’re off the hook, right? Your slave was already sold into slavery to you, he was already a slave, so you’re not actually a racist.

No, because I have an ability to free that slave AFTER buying him. So what I would do would be buy a slave AND THEN FREE HIM.

On the other hand, if I buy an animal that is already dead, I don't have an ability to revive it. Thats the difference.

However, if I buy an animal that is still alive (such as alive fish they sell for food) THEN I have an ability to refrain from killing it.

And so I would buy alive fish and keep it as pet, and I will also buy a slave and free him. That way I would save the fish from being killed AND save the slave from slavery.

But the animals that are already dead, I don't have an ability to revive them. Thats why I can eat them.

 

[Owliet]

In general, I tend to sympathize with causes that nobody else sympathizes with. That is true both when it comes to empathy as well as science. So in my math or physics research, I tend to come up with my own problems that nobody can relate to. And in case of empathy, I have the most empathy towards things that nobody else has empathy towards. Kind of like "who else will help this poor thing, but me".

How do you know that no one else has sympathy for causes that you sympathize with? It is very arrogant to make the assumption that you have the “most empathy towards things that nobody else has empathy towards.”

I also am not a vegetarian but it doesn’t mean that I condone animal cruelty. I had one vegan basically yell at me once online just because I said that being a vegetarian or vegan should be a personal choice and not be forced onto others

And that’s perfectly understandable. There’s a drive for people who are meat consumers to produce meat in more ethical ways without causing additional stress on the animal. For example, buying kosher / halal meat is considered unethical. The practices of animal slaughter houses who you see abuse the animals and cause them more stress before they do die. That is the things that need to change. People eat meat. People are naturally omnivores. I am a vegetarian and I did that by choice, I dont force it on others. And I dont condemn those who eat meat. Don’t let some crazy radicals get to you. Some of them with their stances do more harm than good. And what should be addressed is the economic production issues that need to be changed to make it more sustainable in the long term.

Incidentally I know a family who are vegetarians. Crazy ones. They owned a dog that they wouldn’t allow to have meat based products because it went against their beliefs.

I also understand fixing animals to prevent overpopulation should an indoor pet cat or dog get outside of their home and lost.

Neutering animals is often the common practice in shelters or by choice because it does prevent overpopulation. My cats are all fixed. My male rabbits are also fixed. It’s a choice that can be made to prevent unwanted new animals being born into an already overpopulated society that often has no choice but to have to put a percentage down to make space. In short, people need to take responsibility for their pets. But also need to make the decision to not buy animals from breeders that continuously breed animals (because that also causes a lot of health problems too).

I am not a vegetarian because it would be too expensive for me to buy meat free foods and fruits and vegetables and I do like fish and chicken and beef and all the different things I can cook with them.

And that’s perfectly fine. =)

I don't have either social skills or time to actually try to convince people to stop eating meat. All I am saying is that IF there is anybody who does it, it’s not necessarely hypocritical. Instead, it is the most logical way of actually accomplishing the goal of saving animals.

Why would you make people stop eating meat on the basis of your personal beliefs or feelings? To accomplish the goal of saving animals, it is not entirely feasible. If most people stop eating meat, what do you do with the surplus animals that are around? Most of them have been bred over the years to produce more meat in the body and without the demand for breeding them, what happens to them but extinction? The land that may have been cleared away for meat production (like with cows), the land is often not arable enough to produce other crops so more land needs to be cleared to make enough produce that can support a fully vegetarian society Which is just not feasible. Let people make choices for themselves. If they want to eat meat: great. But advocate for better conditions for animals going through the process and outlaw kosher and halal practices because they’re just unnecessary cruel.

In any case, regardless of whether one is vegeterian or not, influencing others should be the main goal. After all, that is the only thing that would actually save animals. The only logical reason to be vegeterian that I can see, is that hopefully others will be influenced by watching, or something like that. But if someone is vegeterian "without" influencing others as a goal, then I don't see how that could possibly save animals.

I decided to become vegetarian due to dietary needs for myself. I love animals but it was never really about “SAVING THE ANIMALS” For me. That’s just an additional bonus but my choice doesn’t really change anything Because a large percentage people still eat meat and I am not about to go around telling people how wrong they are for doing such when we’ve eaten meat since the time of our earliest ancestors. Why should I push my living choices onto another even if I’d like to appear empathetic and holier than thou. I wasn’t even influenced to make this change and I think what’s more important like I’ve said multiple times in this post already is to advocate for better conditions for animal slaughter practices.

So having a slave should be a personal choice and shouldn’t be criticized by others, right?

How do you get to using slavery as an argument out of this?

So I’m wondering, why aren’t you vegan?

Why would you need to ask him? What does it matter to you if he is vegan, vegetarian, eats the air? It’s his choice. Just as it is my choice to be vegetarian.

If you are convincing others by lying, you have become dishonest and untrustworthy.

I know that this is a quote, so not directed at you but I agree. If you have to lie to convince others then you are dishonest and untrustworthy and any argument that you use to persuade others to do something that you do not end up doing yourself is hypocritical And often gets found out in the end Which then proves how untrustworthy you are.

So after your slaves are dead, you’re no longer a racist?

How do you feel about people now being accused of being racist because their great-great-great-great-great grandfather owned a slave? Does this make those people racist?

Similarly, if you, personally, killed the food you bought, then thats bad too.

I’d prefer it if people actually killed the food they consumed rather than buy it in the supermarket. You don’t know the conditions that came about in the supermarket’s meat products.

--- I am more compassionate than vegeterians because I would save the alive fish in teh store from being eaten by others, while vegeterians wouldn't

I see we are trying to be more “I’m more empathetic than these people”. You mentioned that you care about plants. Does this mean that you dont eat plant based foods?

And actually, there are some people who would argue that buying a pet is also just as bad…

So if an African slave trader sells a slave to you, you’re off the hook, right? Your slave was already sold into slavery to you, he was already a slave, so you’re not actually a racist.

Indigenous peoples also used to sell their own people as slaves. Or would sell slaves on further from those taken As slaves from tribal wars. There was slavery before the Transatlantic slave trade.


This ”debate” is extremely ridiculous.

 

[Luca]

Not directing this at anyone or trying to start an argument. I just think some things need to be clarified.
Just wanted to throw out there that I am a licensed dog breeder (registered, inspected, regulated, certified, affiliated with a kennel club.) I am EXTREMELY knowledgeable about what I'm going to be talking about here since it is my special interest and I have been educating myself on this daily, basically since I first learned to read.

You can breed and buy animals ethically as well, there is just the huge caveat that you have to do really intense research to find a breeder who is actually reputable. There are so many frauds and shady people in the industry. BUT there are also a lot of amazing, passionate, knowledgeable, educated, and kindhearted ones who truly love their dogs and want to find loving homes for their dogs.
The most important thing is that you should never buy from a breeder who isn't affiliated with a parent organization, isn't regulated, and doesn't health test their animals. Never buy from a breeder who won't let you physically go to their home and meet the puppies' parents in person. And I have a big problem with breeders that produce only "show quality" animals.

There is a HUGE difference between hobby/passion breeders (like myself), and commercial breeding operations/puppy mills/pet stores. People like to stay conveniently uneducated about this.
Commercial breeders are the ones that are bad and the ones that you should absolutely never buy from, and need to be stopped. I will never disagree with anyone who says that.
Reputable breeders don't usually profit from breeding. We lose more money than we pull in. Feeding dogs and paying vet bills is expensive, and not every puppy is going to be sold. So what do we do? We keep them until a good forever home comes along. Sometimes they stay with us forever.
So far, I have had one litter of puppies that I was a co-breeder on. My dog Hex is from that litter. And she's also a good example of "things can go wrong even if everything is planned perfectly," if anyone has followed her story. Any breeder who tells you they have never produced a dog with a health issue or a temperament issue is lying. It's like with human children. Mixed breed animals can also have health issues, because it takes two parents to make a baby. Whether the animals are purebred or not, it isn't always a known quantity. Reputable, responsible breeders will screen for genetic defects before pairing two dogs and will do their best to eliminate any possible health issues. But you can't completely get rid of every single disease, even if it hasn't shown up in the parents for generations.
Look at me, for example. I'm adopted, so not much is known about my family history. I am mixed race, mixed heritage. I have autism, multiple chronic illnesses and more than one genetic disease. It isn't clear why. Would it be the same if my parents were the same race and the same ethnicity? No one knows. Reproduction of any kind is always a bit of a gamble, regardless of how hard you try to make it seamless.

But putting me into the same category as a commercial breeder, a pet shop, or even a show breeder isn't fair.
I am a hobbyist breeder, and a performance breeder. I am passionate about keeping my favorite breed of dog alive and healthy. I also love to train my dogs and compete in obedience trials with them because it is fun for me, and mental stimulation and physical exercise for them.
I health test my dogs, very rarely compete in conformation shows, will never sell a puppy to anyone I haven't done a full background check on, and I don't inbreed or linebreed. Linebreeding is even controversial among dog breeders. I am also a certified dog behaviorist and professional dog trainer. I am knowledge-assessed, and I'm highly educated about behavior, training, and psychology. Dog genetics are also one of my special interests and I would never, ever breed a litter without intensely researching that beforehand.

And I am never going to stop anyone from adopting or rescuing animals, or spaying or neutering them. I also have three rescue dogs that I adopted and did not buy. I treat them exactly the same as dogs that I have purchased or bred. They're all dogs, regardless of background. All dogs deserve a home, period.
It might also be helpful to go visit an animal shelter and see how few of the dogs are purebred and registered. Stray dogs are mostly a result of uneducated, irresponsible owners not spaying and neutering their dogs. A lot of dogs in shelters are rescued from dogfighting rings, or are abandoned by thugs or criminals, or were feral or wandering stray for generations. Reputable breeders and responsible owners of purebred dogs are not tossing their dogs out onto the streets. This narrative has been pushed for decades and it isn't true or logical.
Just respect that not everyone wants a dog for the same reasons, and isn't going to obtain a dog exactly the same way. Some people, like myself, want a dog that fulfills a specific niche and looks, behaves, thinks, and responds to training in a certain way. Some people just want a family pet or a lifelong companion. And who's to say either of us are wrong?

I will always advocate for responsible rescue, and reputable breeding. I will always breed my own dogs, but I will also always rescue dogs from shelters. If I was not also serious about rescuing dogs, Enzo, who is the best dog I've ever had, would not be alive today. But if I had never wanted a purebred dog either, I wouldn't have found my lifelong passion for Dogo Argentinos, and dedicated myself to helping spread awareness about and advocating for the preservation of a unique, rare, and highly stigmatized breed that is starting to bounce back from the brink of endangerment.
People on both sides will try to tell you that you can't have both. You can absolutely have both. I have both. Anyone who is arguing entirely for one side without regard to the other is not looking at the full picture. And neither side needs to hate each other.
At the end of the day, a dog is a dog, whether they are purebred or mixed, adopted or purchased. Every dog everywhere deserves a good home.

 

[Rodafina]

Not directing this at anyone or trying to start an argument. I just think some things need to be clarified.
Just wanted to throw out there that I am a licensed dog breeder (registered, inspected, regulated, certified, affiliated with a kennel club.) I am EXTREMELY knowledgeable about what I'm going to be talking about here since it is my special interest and I have been educating myself on this daily, basically since I first learned to read.

You can breed and buy animals ethically as well, there is just the huge caveat that you have to do really intense research to find a breeder who is actually reputable. There are so many frauds and shady people in the industry. BUT there are also a lot of amazing, passionate, knowledgeable, educated, and kindhearted ones who truly love their dogs and want to find loving homes for their dogs.
The most important thing is that you should never buy from a breeder who isn't affiliated with a parent organization, isn't regulated, and doesn't health test their animals. Never buy from a breeder who won't let you physically go to their home and meet the puppies' parents in person. And I have a big problem with breeders that produce only "show quality" animals.

There is a HUGE difference between hobby/passion breeders (like myself), and commercial breeding operations/puppy mills/pet stores. People like to stay conveniently uneducated about this.
Commercial breeders are the ones that are bad and the ones that you should absolutely never buy from, and need to be stopped. I will never disagree with anyone who says that.
Reputable breeders don't usually profit from breeding. We lose more money than we pull in. Feeding dogs and paying vet bills is expensive, and not every puppy is going to be sold. So what do we do? We keep them until a good forever home comes along. Sometimes they stay with us forever.
So far, I have had one litter of puppies that I was a co-breeder on. My dog Hex is from that litter. And she's also a good example of "things can go wrong even if everything is planned perfectly," if anyone has followed her story. Any breeder who tells you they have never produced a dog with a health issue or a temperament issue is lying. It's like with human children. Mixed breed animals can also have health issues, because it takes two parents to make a baby. Whether the animals are purebred or not, it isn't always a known quantity. Reputable, responsible breeders will screen for genetic defects before pairing two dogs and will do their best to eliminate any possible health issues. But you can't completely get rid of every single disease, even if it hasn't shown up in the parents for generations.
Look at me, for example. I'm adopted, so not much is known about my family history. I am mixed race, mixed heritage. I have autism, multiple chronic illnesses and more than one genetic disease. It isn't clear why. Would it be the same if my parents were the same race and the same ethnicity? No one knows. Reproduction of any kind is always a bit of a gamble, regardless of how hard you try to make it seamless.

But putting me into the same category as a commercial breeder, a pet shop, or even a show breeder isn't fair.
I am a hobbyist breeder, and a performance breeder. I am passionate about keeping my favorite breed of dog alive and healthy. I also love to train my dogs and compete in obedience trials with them because it is fun for me, and mental stimulation and physical exercise for them.
I health test my dogs, very rarely compete in conformation shows, will never sell a puppy to anyone I haven't done a full background check on, and I don't inbreed or linebreed. Linebreeding is even controversial among dog breeders. I am also a certified dog behaviorist and professional dog trainer. I am knowledge-assessed, and I'm highly educated about behavior, training, and psychology. Dog genetics are also one of my special interests and I would never, ever breed a litter without intensely researching that beforehand.

And I am never going to stop anyone from adopting or rescuing animals, or spaying or neutering them. I also have three rescue dogs that I adopted and did not buy. I treat them exactly the same as dogs that I have purchased or bred. They're all dogs, regardless of background. All dogs deserve a home, period.
It might also be helpful to go visit an animal shelter and see how few of the dogs are purebred and registered. Stray dogs are mostly a result of uneducated, irresponsible owners not spaying and neutering their dogs. A lot of dogs in shelters are rescued from dogfighting rings, or are abandoned by thugs or criminals, or were feral or wandering stray for generations. Reputable breeders and responsible owners of purebred dogs are not tossing their dogs out onto the streets. This narrative has been pushed for decades and it isn't true or logical.
Just respect that not everyone wants a dog for the same reasons, and isn't going to obtain a dog exactly the same way. Some people, like myself, want a dog that fulfills a specific niche and looks, behaves, thinks, and responds to training in a certain way. Some people just want a family pet or a lifelong companion. And who's to say either of us are wrong?

I will always advocate for responsible rescue, and reputable breeding. I will always breed my own dogs, but I will also always rescue dogs from shelters. If I was not also serious about rescuing dogs, Enzo, who is the best dog I've ever had, would not be alive today. But if I had never wanted a purebred dog either, I wouldn't have found my lifelong passion for Dogo Argentinos, and dedicated myself to helping spread awareness about and advocating for the preservation of a unique, rare, and highly stigmatized breed that is starting to bounce back from the brink of endangerment.
People on both sides will try to tell you that you can't have both. You can absolutely have both. I have both. Anyone who is arguing entirely for one side without regard to the other is not looking at the full picture. And neither side needs to hate each other.
At the end of the day, a dog is a dog, whether they are purebred or mixed, adopted or purchased. Every dog everywhere deserves a good home.

I was going to ask about a few things with the spay/neuter topic, but you answered all my questions! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience, here.

 

[Luca]

I was going to ask about a few things with the spay/neuter topic, but you answered all my questions! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience, here.

Aww I'm so glad you found it useful!!
Yeah, I should've clarified in my original post... people who have dogs just as pets/companions absolutely need to spay/neuter their dogs. I just don't "alter" my dogs because they are either breeding dogs or performance dogs, and it's a personal preference.
Obviously, I'm a professional, "Don't try this at home!"

 

[Owliet]

Not directing this at anyone or trying to start an argument. I just think some things need to be clarified.
Just wanted to throw out there that I am a licensed dog breeder (registered, inspected, regulated, certified, affiliated with a kennel club.) I am EXTREMELY knowledgeable about what I'm going to be talking about here since it is my special interest and I have been educating myself on this daily, basically since I first learned to read.

You can breed and buy animals ethically as well, there is just the huge caveat that you have to do really intense research to find a breeder who is actually reputable. There are so many frauds and shady people in the industry. BUT there are also a lot of amazing, passionate, knowledgeable, educated, and kindhearted ones who truly love their dogs and want to find loving homes for their dogs.
The most important thing is that you should never buy from a breeder who isn't affiliated with a parent organization, isn't regulated, and doesn't health test their animals. Never buy from a breeder who won't let you physically go to their home and meet the puppies' parents in person. And I have a big problem with breeders that produce only "show quality" animals.

There is a HUGE difference between hobby/passion breeders (like myself), and commercial breeding operations/puppy mills/pet stores. People like to stay conveniently uneducated about this.
Commercial breeders are the ones that are bad and the ones that you should absolutely never buy from, and need to be stopped. I will never disagree with anyone who says that.
Reputable breeders don't usually profit from breeding. We lose more money than we pull in. Feeding dogs and paying vet bills is expensive, and not every puppy is going to be sold. So what do we do? We keep them until a good forever home comes along. Sometimes they stay with us forever.
So far, I have had one litter of puppies that I was a co-breeder on. My dog Hex is from that litter. And she's also a good example of "things can go wrong even if everything is planned perfectly," if anyone has followed her story. Any breeder who tells you they have never produced a dog with a health issue or a temperament issue is lying. It's like with human children. Mixed breed animals can also have health issues, because it takes two parents to make a baby. Whether the animals are purebred or not, it isn't always a known quantity. Reputable, responsible breeders will screen for genetic defects before pairing two dogs and will do their best to eliminate any possible health issues. But you can't completely get rid of every single disease, even if it hasn't shown up in the parents for generations.
Look at me, for example. I'm adopted, so not much is known about my family history. I am mixed race, mixed heritage. I have autism, multiple chronic illnesses and more than one genetic disease. It isn't clear why. Would it be the same if my parents were the same race and the same ethnicity? No one knows. Reproduction of any kind is always a bit of a gamble, regardless of how hard you try to make it seamless.

But putting me into the same category as a commercial breeder, a pet shop, or even a show breeder isn't fair.
I am a hobbyist breeder, and a performance breeder. I am passionate about keeping my favorite breed of dog alive and healthy. I also love to train my dogs and compete in obedience trials with them because it is fun for me, and mental stimulation and physical exercise for them.
I health test my dogs, very rarely compete in conformation shows, will never sell a puppy to anyone I haven't done a full background check on, and I don't inbreed or linebreed. Linebreeding is even controversial among dog breeders. I am also a certified dog behaviorist and professional dog trainer. I am knowledge-assessed, and I'm highly educated about behavior, training, and psychology. Dog genetics are also one of my special interests and I would never, ever breed a litter without intensely researching that beforehand.

And I am never going to stop anyone from adopting or rescuing animals, or spaying or neutering them. I also have three rescue dogs that I adopted and did not buy. I treat them exactly the same as dogs that I have purchased or bred. They're all dogs, regardless of background. All dogs deserve a home, period.
It might also be helpful to go visit an animal shelter and see how few of the dogs are purebred and registered. Stray dogs are mostly a result of uneducated, irresponsible owners not spaying and neutering their dogs. A lot of dogs in shelters are rescued from dogfighting rings, or are abandoned by thugs or criminals, or were feral or wandering stray for generations. Reputable breeders and responsible owners of purebred dogs are not tossing their dogs out onto the streets. This narrative has been pushed for decades and it isn't true or logical.
Just respect that not everyone wants a dog for the same reasons, and isn't going to obtain a dog exactly the same way. Some people, like myself, want a dog that fulfills a specific niche and looks, behaves, thinks, and responds to training in a certain way. Some people just want a family pet or a lifelong companion. And who's to say either of us are wrong?

I will always advocate for responsible rescue, and reputable breeding. I will always breed my own dogs, but I will also always rescue dogs from shelters. If I was not also serious about rescuing dogs, Enzo, who is the best dog I've ever had, would not be alive today. But if I had never wanted a purebred dog either, I wouldn't have found my lifelong passion for Dogo Argentinos, and dedicated myself to helping spread awareness about and advocating for the preservation of a unique, rare, and highly stigmatized breed that is starting to bounce back from the brink of endangerment.
People on both sides will try to tell you that you can't have both. You can absolutely have both. I have both. Anyone who is arguing entirely for one side without regard to the other is not looking at the full picture. And neither side needs to hate each other.
At the end of the day, a dog is a dog, whether they are purebred or mixed, adopted or purchased. Every dog everywhere deserves a good home.

Feel like this is a response to what I wrote — but I was thinking that it was more about those who just breed animals for more profit than anything else. So this leads to health problems for both mom and the offspring because they dont really care about anything except money... I was also thinking about those hobby breeders also who were making certain new breeds from specific genetics that were negative. I agree that reputable breeding with a license is something that is a must and responsible people should research as much as they can before going with a breeder rather than selecting just any breeder. I know that some countries are less likely to manage and control this than others. Sorry that you felt like you had to elaborate further on this, it was not my intent.=(

 

[Luca]

Feel like this is a response to what I wrote — but I was thinking that it was more about those who just breed animals for more profit than anything else. So this leads to health problems for both mom and the offspring because they dont really care about anything except money... I was also thinking about those hobby breeders also who were making certain new breeds from specific genetics that were negative. I agree that reputable breeding with a license is something that is a must and responsible people should research as much as they can before going with a breeder rather than selecting just any breeder. I know that some countries are less likely to manage and control this than others. Sorry that you felt like you had to elaborate further on this, it was not my intent.=(

Oh no, I'm so sorry if you felt like I was attacking you or you were offended! I wanted to clarify it to everyone.
Yes, some breeders do breed for profit and I hope I made it very clear that I disagree with that. I'm also pretty against creating new breeds like "Doodles." So yes, I agree with your points!
Hope your feelings aren't hurt!!! Sorry if I was rude

 

[Owliet]

Oh no, I'm so sorry if you felt like I was attacking you or you were offended! I wanted to clarify it to everyone.
Yes, some breeders do breed for profit and I hope I made it very clear that I disagree with that. I'm also pretty against creating new breeds like "Doodles." So yes, I agree with your points!
Hope your feelings aren't hurt!!! Sorry if I was rude

Oh no, not at all. I was just worried that you were upset.=) I dont know what a doodle is but it sounds terrifying. I know that there’s a lot of cases in Europe about puppy farming that sees them be breeding in awful conditions because there’s no Safe guards which I think they were trying to address. It’s very sad that people have little consideration for this, and it ruins the trust of those who know what they‘re doing and breed the animals responsibly. It’s like those tea cup pigs that were all very popular not too long ago. =/

 

[Rodafina]

Feel like this is a response to what I wrote — but I was thinking that it was more about those who just breed animals for more profit than anything else. So this leads to health problems for both mom and the offspring because they dont really care about anything except money... I was also thinking about those hobby breeders also who were making certain new breeds from specific genetics that were negative. I agree that reputable breeding with a license is something that is a must and responsible people should research as much as they can before going with a breeder rather than selecting just any breeder. I know that some countries are less likely to manage and control this than others. Sorry that you felt like you had to elaborate further on this, it was not my intent.=(

Oh no, I'm so sorry if you felt like I was attacking you or you were offended! I wanted to clarify it to everyone.
Yes, some breeders do breed for profit and I hope I made it very clear that I disagree with that. I'm also pretty against creating new breeds like "Doodles." So yes, I agree with your points!
Hope your feelings aren't hurt!!! Sorry if I was rude

Sorry to nose in like an eager pup, but I just wanted to say it's really nice to see people respecting each other and hearing each other out in friendliness. Y'all are being good role models and very decent folks.

 

[Owliet]

Sorry to nose in like an eager pup, but I just wanted to say it's really nice to see people respecting each other and hearing each other out in friendliness. Y'all are being good role models and very decent folks.

It’s easy to do when @Luca is decent person.=)

 

[Luca]

Oh no, not at all. I was just worried that you were upset.=) I dont know what a doodle is but it sounds terrifying. I know that there’s a lot of cases in Europe about puppy farming that sees them be breeding in awful conditions because there’s no Safe guards which I think they were trying to address. It’s very sad that people have little consideration for this, and it ruins the trust of those who know what they‘re doing and breed the animals responsibly. It’s like those tea cup pigs that were all very popular not too long ago. =/

Yeah, now people hate me just because I have the "dog breeder" and "purebred dog" label, because people have really ruined our reputation. It sucks.
Doodles are intentional crossbreeds, like Goldendoodles and Labradoodles. I don't think they're "bad" dogs or anything but I don't like that they exist because I don't feel that most of them are responsibly bred.

 

[Luca]

It’s easy to do when @Luca is decent person.=)

Awww thank you!!! <3 You are too!
And thank you for respectfully engaging me and listening instead of jumping up my ass like a lot of people do without hearing my professional perspective lol

 

[Owliet]

Yeah, now people hate me just because I have the "dog breeder" and "purebred dog" label, because people have really ruined our reputation. It sucks.
Doodles are intentional crossbreeds, like Goldendoodles and Labradoodles. I don't think they're "bad" dogs or anything but I don't like that they exist because I don't feel that most of them are responsibly bred.

And that’s the problem. I think a lot of people see animals as commodities. Something to have and whatever is the latest trend. Hate trends.. It’s the same for cats. The persian cats with the squashed faces were once a trend and yet it leads to a lot of breathing problems.

Awww thank you!!! <3 You are too!
And thank you for respectfully engaging me and listening instead of jumping up my ass like a lot of people do without hearing my professional perspective lol

You’re the expert in the breeding of these animals Luca. You know what you are talking about. Why should I not respect that?=)

 

[Luca]

You’re the expert in the breeding of these animals Luca. You know what you are talking about. Why should I not respect that?=)

That means a lot to me!!! You are always so kind!

 

[Forest Cat]

Interestingly, I hold the opposite opinion. My personal choice, is just one person. My ability to force others to do something is about masses of people. In order for less animals to be killed, it is important to stop masses of people from buying meat, but its not important to stop one single individual, such as myself, from doing so. Therefore, the most logical thing to do for someone who is concerned about animals, is to continue to eat meat themselves, while trying to force everyone else to become vegitarian.

Isn't that called facism? Forcing people to do as you want, that never ends well. It doesn't sound good. It has been tried many times before. We also have to look at the planet we live on. Everyone is eating everyone. The normal thing on this planet is that everyone eats everyone, it's a food chain. Not saying it's great or anything, it's just how life is on earth. If you and I get stranded on an island with no food, one of us will eventually eat the other one to survive. Earth is a rough place, it's not a Disney movie.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

Yeah, now people hate me just because I have the "dog breeder" and "purebred dog" label, because people have really ruined our reputation. It sucks.
Doodles are intentional crossbreeds, like Goldendoodles and Labradoodles. I don't think they're "bad" dogs or anything but I don't like that they exist because I don't feel that most of them are responsibly bred.

I actually don’t mind breeders who are responsible and only have a few litters each year and take good care of the puppies or kittens until they are old enough to go to a new home. It’s the puppy mills that I don’t want to support. I enjoy watching videos of puppies that the responsible and reliable breeders post on YouTube and you can see how happy all the adult dog are whenever they run past the camera freely. I would buy a puppy from a breeder if I know that they are reliable and actually care about the health of all of their dogs.

 

[Owliet]

Isn't that called facism? Forcing people to do as you want, that never ends well. It doesn't sound good. We also have to look at the planet we live on. Everyone is eating everyone. The normal thing on this planet is that everyone eats everyone, it's a food chain. Not saying it's great or anything, it just how life is on earth. If you and I get stranded on an island with no food, one of us will eventually eat the other one to survive. Earth is a rough place, it's not a Disney movie.

I think that it is important to know that life isn’t like a Disney movie. In nature, the shark will always need to eat a seal, even if you watch it struggle and feel sad that it’s died, it is one of those things in life. You cant ask a shark to go vegetarian or vegan. Sid will always need to eat (living) worms And whilst he can eat vegetables and fruit, he’s an omnivore that needs both. Primates (like chimpanzees) are often seen in the wild hunting smaller primates for meat because they need it in their died. That’s the food chain. And some people even just resort to eating each other without being stuck on an island.

 

[Forest Cat]

I think that it is important to know that life isn’t like a Disney movie. In nature, the shark will always need to eat a seal, even if you watch it struggle and feel sad that it’s died, it is one of those things in life. You cant ask a shark to go vegetarian or vegan. Sid will always need to eat (living) worms And whilst he can eat vegetables and fruit, he’s an omnivore that needs both. Primates (like chimpanzees) are often seen in the wild hunting smaller primates for meat because they need it in their died. That’s the food chain. And some people even just resort to eating each other without being stuck on an island.

Yeah when we take a step back and look closely at this planet we live on, it's incredibly rough. It's violent and hard. And that has always been normal here. Again, not saying it's great or that I think it's wonderful or anything like that. It's just facts, we live on a very rough planet. Especially if you have empathy and feel bad for animals and such, that makes it even rougher. I have a lot of empathy for animals so this is a rough place for me.

 

[Rodafina]

Yeah when we take a step back and look closely at this planet we live on, it's incredibly rough. It's violent and hard. And that has always been normal here. Again, not saying it's great or that I think it's wonderful or anything like that. It's just facts, we live on a very rough planet. Especially if you have empathy and feel bad for animals and such, that makes it even rougher. I have a lot of empathy for animals so this is a rough place for me.

We are all animals at the end of the day and if you take away the modern conveniences and resources that many humans have acquired, I think we would pretty quickly resort to the wild ways of our caveman ancestors.