Hiding it with alcohol?

[MNAus]

I wrote you a huge response on my phone, but the sodding ads blocked the screen and it was lost. I'll write it again later, sorry, but you can blame the double glazing ad or whatever it was that decided to block my whole screen. You WILL get a reply though. Promise.

 

[AspieChris]

I wrote you a huge response on my phone, but the sodding ads blocked the screen and it was lost. I'll write it again later, sorry, but you can blame the double glazing ad or whatever it was that decided to block my whole screen. You WILL get a reply though. Promise.

I absolutely hated those stinking ads. So I spent the $10 and got the membership. Poof! No more ads. Best 10 bucks I can remember spending in a very long time.

Whatever you wrote was probably going to be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

 

[1ofakind]

Here is the website of one psychologist I found in Los Angeles, California (Including telehealth) who specializes in autism/asperger's (Including adults) that may be encouraging:

Autism Treatment For Adults │ Dr. Crystal I. Lee │ Los Angeles, CA

Are you tired of feeling like an outsider? Leverage your strengths, learn coping strategies, and level the playing field with adult autism treatment.

laconciergepsychologist.com

The website alone really seems to understand the struggles of the adult on the autism spectrum. But, admittedly, I have no idea regarding the details and would want other opinions. Perhaps, the doctor from the website's office could provide even further referrals to help make the search easier?

 

[MNAus]

I absolutely hated those stinking ads. So I spent the $10 and got the membership. Poof! No more ads. Best 10 bucks I can remember spending in a very long time.

Whatever you wrote was probably going to be very helpful. Thanks in advance.

It was more encouragement than useful advice. I know how difficult it is going to new therapists, they're so hit and miss. I find psychology is one of the disciplines where there's a MASSIVE variation in ability, a shocking level. IMO there's a lot of psychologists who do it for negative reasons and a lot of them are hopeless. And you really do need one that understands adult autism.

One route you might take is to go through a child autism diagnosis centre (maybe the one that diagnosed your kid?) as they often have parents who discover their own diagnosis through their child's. They can likely help you locate someone. You wouldn't be the first I'm sure.

 

[AspieChris]

Here is the website of one psychologist I found in Los Angeles, California (Including telehealth) who specializes in autism/asperger's (Including adults) that may be encouraging:

Autism Treatment For Adults │ Dr. Crystal I. Lee │ Los Angeles, CA

Are you tired of feeling like an outsider? Leverage your strengths, learn coping strategies, and level the playing field with adult autism treatment.

laconciergepsychologist.com

The website alone really seems to understand the struggles of the adult on the autism spectrum. But, admittedly, I have no idea regarding the details and would want other opinions. Perhaps, the doctor from the website's office could provide even further referrals to help make the search easier?

My wife is already investigating their website.

 

[AspieChris]

It was more encouragement than useful advice. I know how difficult it is going to new therapists, they're so hit and miss. I find psychology is one of the disciplines where there's a MASSIVE variation in ability, a shocking level. IMO there's a lot of psychologists who do it for negative reasons and a lot of them are hopeless. And you really do need one that understands adult autism.

One route you might take is to go through a child autism diagnosis centre (maybe the one that diagnosed your kid?) as they often have parents who discover their own diagnosis through their child's. They can likely help you locate someone. You wouldn't be the first I'm sure.

I self-diagnosed myself, and also diagnosed my son.

 

[AspieChris]

Today is day 1. I’m tapering.

My situation has many facets. It’s what I do at 3pm. It’s how I decompress. I gives me energy after a exhausting day. It’s how I START to deal with a wife and child who want to tell me about their day when I’m fried. It’s something that makes me sleep through the night without nightmares. And I love the taste, but it’s a flavor I’m not allowed to taste until I get home from work.

I’m going to try and solve less than everything at once. I drank about 1/2 of what I usually do. But I’m too gone right now to type more.

 

[AspieChris]

It was more encouragement than useful advice. I know how difficult it is going to new therapists, they're so hit and miss. I find psychology is one of the disciplines where there's a MASSIVE variation in ability, a shocking level. IMO there's a lot of psychologists who do it for negative reasons and a lot of them are hopeless. And you really do need one that understands adult autism.

One route you might take is to go through a child autism diagnosis centre (maybe the one that diagnosed your kid?) as they often have parents who discover their own diagnosis through their child's. They can likely help you locate someone. You wouldn't be the first I'm sure.

MNAus….. You’re the closest person I have ever encountered to someone who seems to understand and express yourself a way that makes sense to me. It’s too bad that I’m not able to meet you in person. I guess that the internet will have to do.

Everyone here has been sooooo helpful. I’m deeply gray. Thank God for this site

 

[MNAus]

MNAus….. You’re the closest person I have ever encountered to someone who seems to understand and express yourself a way that makes sense to me. It’s too bad that I’m not able to meet you in person. I guess that the internet will have to do.

Everyone here has been sooooo helpful. I’m deeply gray. Thank God for this site

Mate, that's great to hear. I just burble out what's in my head, it's wonderful to know that it makes sense. Confirms I'm not insane too (or perhaps we're both insane... let's leave that aside).

Every drink left in the bottle is a drink that your body isn't dealing with. So drinking less today is wonderful news too.

Regarding psychologists, although you didn't go to one for your son's diagnosis, there are plenty around who specialise in that area and who might refer you on to a psychologist who can help an adult with autism. Like I say MANY parents find out when their kid get diagnosed, you wouldn't be the first to say "hey, I could use an expert, know of any?"

I know where you're coming from though. My wife used to say to me "You always look so unhappy when you get home from work, angry even. You should be happy to see your wife and kid". I didn't know at the time that how I experienced the whole work and commuting on a train with people thing wasn't the same as others experienced. I just thought "she's right, what am I doing wrong?"

But then again, it's one thing to know, and another thing to act on that new information to do things differently. I would guess we both need to be a little less demanding on ourselves to be what we are not and work on better ways to achieve the things we want to achieve, like listening to our loved ones about their day. I would guess too that they'd be happy to work with practical suggestions, for example "I love to hear everything, but my brain is absolutely buzzing when I get home. I'd be able to give you both the attention you deserve when my brain has quietened down, so perhaps I could have a shower every day with some music, then come downstairs fresh, ready to listen and hear everything." I don't think just trying harder to do things as they are is really going to work. I think we're going to have to do some actual, material things differently. That doesn't mean less fun or some sort of imposition for your loved ones, just different approaches.

 

[AspieChris]

Mate, that's great to hear. I just burble out what's in my head, it's wonderful to know that it makes sense. Confirms I'm not insane too (or perhaps we're both insane... let's leave that aside).

Every drink left in the bottle is a drink that your body isn't dealing with. So drinking less today is wonderful news too.

Regarding psychologists, although you didn't go to one for your son's diagnosis, there are plenty around who specialise in that area and who might refer you on to a psychologist who can help an adult with autism. Like I say MANY parents find out when their kid get diagnosed, you wouldn't be the first to say "hey, I could use an expert, know of any?"

I know where you're coming from though. My wife used to say to me "You always look so unhappy when you get home from work, angry even. You should be happy to see your wife and kid". I didn't know at the time that how I experienced the whole work and commuting on a train with people thing wasn't the same as others experienced. I just thought "she's right, what am I doing wrong?"

But then again, it's one thing to know, and another thing to act on that new information to do things differently. I would guess we both need to be a little less demanding on ourselves to be what we are not and work on better ways to achieve the things we want to achieve, like listening to our loved ones about their day. I would guess too that they'd be happy to work with practical suggestions, for example "I love to hear everything, but my brain is absolutely buzzing when I get home. I'd be able to give you both the attention you deserve when my brain has quietened down, so perhaps I could have a shower every day with some music, then come downstairs fresh, ready to listen and hear everything." I don't think just trying harder to do things as they are is really going to work. I think we're going to have to do some actual, material things differently. That doesn't mean less fun or some sort of imposition for your loved ones, just different approaches.

I’ve tried all of those things. But the universe ALWAYS steps in and the car breaks down, or somebody gets injured, or f’ing COVID hits and my wife freaks out when I forget to wipe the handle on the shopping cart (for the last 3 years!)

I’m at the edge of my sanity all day, every day. It’s a perpetual state of fight-or-flight. Alcohol, marijuana, oxycodone…. It’s the only time my life feels like I’m not overwhelmed.

I finally admitted to my wife that I fantasize about leaving it all behind and go be homeless. Not drunk and homeless, just without all of the responsibilities. I guess I am in crisis. Life hurts in ways that most people cannot even begin to comprehend. Alcohol takes it away and allows me to rest for a few hours.

I’m the mechanic, plumber, electrician, gardener, etc… and I’m also expected to sit and watch a movie or WANT to go to a birthday party, or listen to what the stupid ass neighbor did while I was at work and go deal with it. All of this while trying to teach my son (15 and Asperger’s) how to do what I do (hiding my symptoms). I’m beyond exhausted every minute of every day. And all of this after working a full time job that burns me out every single minute. And there’s no chance of ANY of this changing for at least the next 10 years.

Of course I want to escape every afternoon.

 

[AspieChris]

I’ve been trying to help a 13 year old boy in Pakistan who’s pretty much the same as me, but in a horrible situation with bullying at school. He’s not really listening to advice. He’s too stressed to really get what me and Rodafina are trying to help him understand. I hate to ditch him, but I gotta start somewhere.

It’s very hard for me to not feel someone else’s pain and not try to help. It’s like the movie “The Green Mile”. The main character can absorb a person’s illness, such as cancer. But it makes him very sick. And I usually assume that whatever is happening to that person is not their fault. I understand now that people make choices and it is their decisions that put them in a bad situation. Such as myself: I can quit my job and go on disability, but that cuts my income in half. So if my family loses their house it would be my fault…. Not just some random problem that someone else should fix.

But I still see them hurting and I want to help. The problem is that in Los Angeles, absolutely everyone is suffering in some way. Even rich people have children on drugs or a cheating spouse.

 

[stevens]

You are not alone. And you are right that it works. But it costs, too. It worked for decades for me. The only way I felt "normal." And when I drank around others, the fact that others were drinking meant they were less wary of my social quirks. It was a two way street in some ways.

But one day in 2007, the realization that I basically was doing express checkout to "fit in" bothered me to the point that I decided to stop. I wasn't doing anything but zoning out after work, and felt bad in the morning. By then I was even less social. Alcohol for me was like one of those fake AI chatbots--a companion (that isn't really there). After I quit, I allowed myself to regress to my childhood, masking wise, and found enjoyment in some other ways. I don't miss drinking, because now I know I would be far worse off or even dead. I'm actually grateful that I am in OK health.

No, you're not alone. A lot of us had to settle for this "sub-prime" solution because nothing else worked. It's especially telling, when you're 50-something and basically have run out of new ideas for social get-rich-quick schemes. The booze did it though. It's fast, re-wires the mind in a way that, for autism, bypasses the brick wall. I just couldn't figure out if that was an illusion, too. I still don't know.

 

[AspieChris]

You are not alone. And you are right that it works. But it costs, too. It worked for decades for me. The only way I felt "normal." And when I drank around others, the fact that others were drinking meant they were less wary of my social quirks. It was a two way street in some ways.

But one day in 2007, the realization that I basically was doing express checkout to "fit in" bothered me to the point that I decided to stop. I wasn't doing anything but zoning out after work, and felt bad in the morning. By then I was even less social. Alcohol for me was like one of those fake AI chatbots--a companion (that isn't really there). After I quit, I allowed myself to regress to my childhood, masking wise, and found enjoyment in some other ways. I don't miss drinking, because now I know I would be far worse off or even dead. I'm actually grateful that I am in OK health.

No, you're not alone. A lot of us had to settle for this "sub-prime" solution because nothing else worked. It's especially telling, when you're 50-something and basically have run out of new ideas for social get-rich-quick schemes. The booze did it though. It's fast, re-wires the mind in a way that, for autism, bypasses the brick wall. I just couldn't figure out if that was an illusion, too. I still don't know.

You said it better than I did…..probably because you stopped drinking so long ago.

 

[MNAus]

I’ve tried all of those things. But the universe ALWAYS steps in and the car breaks down, or somebody gets injured, or f’ing COVID hits and my wife freaks out when I forget to wipe the handle on the shopping cart (for the last 3 years!)

I’m at the edge of my sanity all day, every day. It’s a perpetual state of fight-or-flight. Alcohol, marijuana, oxycodone…. It’s the only time my life feels like I’m not overwhelmed.

I finally admitted to my wife that I fantasize about leaving it all behind and go be homeless. Not drunk and homeless, just without all of the responsibilities. I guess I am in crisis. Life hurts in ways that most people cannot even begin to comprehend. Alcohol takes it away and allows me to rest for a few hours.

I’m the mechanic, plumber, electrician, gardener, etc… and I’m also expected to sit and watch a movie or WANT to go to a birthday party, or listen to what the stupid ass neighbor did while I was at work and go deal with it. All of this while trying to teach my son (15 and Asperger’s) how to do what I do (hiding my symptoms). I’m beyond exhausted every minute of every day. And all of this after working a full time job that burns me out every single minute. And there’s no chance of ANY of this changing for at least the next 10 years.

Of course I want to escape every afternoon.

I hear you completely not least because I'm talking to my psychologist for precisely the same reasons and same feelings. And I'm not anywhere near figuring it out, so this isn't going to be a lecture. But I have had a few insights that made me pause to reflect; maybe these resonate a bit with you too. If it's of no use, then apols, likewise if it's no revelation, but just some ideas anyway.

First off is that my stress reaction actually slows me down, because it causes freezing, procrastination and escapism. And that's honestly true about me. From an objective point of view, and setting aside how it would feel, I could get a LOT more done if I could order things, finish what I start, not put things off till they're urgent, etc. But that's f'ing hard to do with this chaos of pressure, noise, expectations. So although I'm mega busy and I say yes to everything and load it up on my back, I DO drop things. I think that's important to note, because it reveals that we're actually more than capable of doing all this stuff: right now we get (nearly) all of it done with this monkey on our back (problems, not addiction) so without that we could probably do it all with little hassle.

That leads to the second thing I thought, which is how it might be to do all this without the stress feelings. As in, what would it look like if I were to not feel that way, but everything else is the same task-wise. Not some mindless drone serving everyone's needs, but just doing the things I do now without the feeling of stress. How would it be to just navigate my day, doing what I do (not more load, that doesn't change) but without the feeling of pressure in my head from everything cramming in and weighing down.

Here's an aside. I travel quite a bit for work. Pre-covid I travelled more. Everyone assumes I like travel, including me. And I guess I do, sort of. But here's how the usual trip goes.
- Pre-trip (assuming a big flight) I'll prep seats on the flight, look at the stuff I'll get, what the movies are. I'll get the feeling "Come on already flight". Which is why everyone assumes I like travel, cause I look forward to it. I imagine sitting in the lounge, happy, relaxed.
- At the airport, I'm in the lounge wondering what time the flight boards. Is it going to take off on time? What do I need in my various bags. I think "Come on already boarding!"
- And then onto the plane, settle into my seat, choose my first movie, watch a bit, then think "Hmm, how far have we gone, what time is the plane going to land, what's my transfer like. Come on already, let's get there"

You get the picture. Even when I get there I'm working out how many nights I have to spend there before I can get home to my family and you can imagine the trip home. It's not ADHD, it's a constant pressure I put on myself to work out what's next. An inability to live in the moment at all. It's all about what needs doing, what needs sorting, where should I be. A non stop feeling of urgency. Even if I don't actually plan events for the next thing, it's a feeling in my stomach of "come on already".

But the plane flies no faster with all that buzzing going on inside my head.

And the tasks don't go any better, faster or smoother thanks to my stress reaction - in fact they probably go worse. And it's not that the tasks are outlandishly complex or challenging or unreasonable. In fact, it worries me that other folk seem to do twice as much and still have time for a break to do something nice. The problem, for me at least, is my reaction. I have learned a reaction which doesn't work. I don't think it always led to this level of stress, but the approach of "I should own that problem" has been there a long time, it's just it's moved from a self reflection of "look at me, able to carry the world" (even though I don't) to "F*****kkkk, the world's on my shoulders".

I have a faulty reaction. It's not all learned, of course, because I have ASD which has meant practical approaches, the need for structure and harmony has flavoured my approach to life heavily. I can't get rid of that, but I CAN learn to react differently. And we must. Because if we don't, you and me, we're dead men. We can't live with this level of stress. I haven't yet arrived at the actual driver for this, on why I feel the need to fix everything and reach some level of harmony that is utterly unrealistic. I'm starting to suspect I'm going to get the answer of "yeah, autistic people do that, sorry" but perhaps there's a need I can identify that I'm trying to answer. I'll let you know if I work it out (if any of this is relevant in the slightest). But in the meantime, I think it's worth reflecting on how many of these might apply to you. None of them are wrong, but they are unhelpful.

Unhelpful Thinking Styles | Autistica

Find out how everyone uses thinking styles that can sometimes be unhelpful and can add to anxiety.

www.autistica.org.uk

Hoping some of that resonated with you and was a bit helpful. We'll work out what's causing this mate. No worries.

 

[AspieChris]

First off is that my stress reaction actually slows me down, because it causes freezing, procrastination and escapism.

Me too. Everything you said is EXACTLY what I do. I try soooo hard to get in front of my stress, particularly with flying because I subconsciously know that I won’t be able to get in my car and start heading home (even if it’s thousands of miles away). I’d bet that I appear to be getting excited about the trip, but I’m really just getting my mask ready.

The stress makes me literally shut off. It’s as if I’m staring at a burglar with a gun and I’ll say or do whatever he wants to get him to leave. And all it takes to get me there is an angry look from my wife. The alcohol takes that all away and I have boundless energy, with a huge amount of creativity and awesome ideas.

My wife found a great therapist who specializes in adults with ASD. He must be good. There’s a 4 month waiting list to get an appointment. Mine’s in October.

I’m working on the tapering thing. But I sort of failed miserably last night because the wife was ‘in the mood’ and it’s the only way to make it last for more than 2 seconds. It hurts me terribly when I fail her in that way, and I’d rather be a drunk than leave her without her ‘needs’ being met.

 

[MNAus]

The stress makes me literally shut off. It’s as if I’m staring at a burglar with a gun and I’ll say or do whatever he wants to get him to leave. And all it takes to get me there is an angry look from my wife. The alcohol takes that all away and I have boundless energy, with a huge amount of creativity and awesome ideas.

Because you naturally have boundless energy, a huge amount of creativity and awesome ideas, but the stress reactions prevent you from enjoying those. It's all there, waiting to be used. So if you're a guy with all this and who has a proven ability to problem solve and succeed, then really the only thing you need to happen for everything to be pretty awesome is to react differently. Because you can do all this stuff - and let's be honest if someone took half off your plate you'd find other things - so it's just about being in a place where you're able to do all the stuff you do now without the worry which is not doing a damned thing to help. Where your ability to be that energetic, creative guy with awesome ideas is released. That person is in there. The alcohol numbs the stress enough to let him peek out but it's a version of you that's compromised by the effect of booze. Like watching a band performing while they're on prozac: the gold is there, but it's not the real deal.

That angry look thing with your wife. Take care. If you're like me (seems you might be) you probably tend to have black/white thinking, personalisation and catastrophising which turns a throwaway look that probably has nothing to do with you into you sitting there with a stone in your stomach playing out scenarios. Of all the situations to try and avoid these thought patterns, with your partner is probably the most important.

If you can tell the therapist you're happy to take a cancellation. What with covid and the general nature of patients going to therapists, they can get a fair amount of cancellations. You might not need to wait till October. I hope you fit well together.

And regarding the bedroom. You don't need me to tell you that a mindset of "I must service her needs lest she be angered and......gulp...... then what?" is going to make it a trial. But don't panic too much, it will improve once the stress levels come down I'm sure. Hey you might even enjoy it. Remember that experience?

 

[AspieChris]

And regarding the bedroom. You don't need me to tell you that a mindset of "I must service her needs lest she be angered and......gulp...... then what?" is going to make it a trial. But don't panic too much, it will improve once the stress levels come down I'm sure. Hey you might even enjoy it. Remember that experience?

Everything you have said is spot on. Exactly correct. But just taking this one small (huge) snippet from all of the advice you have given:

Yes I remember that experience. Young, dumb, and full of….. I’m sure you know the phrase. I’m older now. 20+ years of marriage and I know the rules. Get it right and I’m a hero. Get it wrong and I’ll feel like a zero for days, maybe weeks. And she will try not to show her disappointment (or worse), but I’ll feel it. Suddenly I’m acting different and that will quickly turn into the new reason she’s mad. Now I’m back into fight-or-flight mode and I forget things for no reason, like something she reminded me to do twice already. And in the blink of an eye, we’re deep into a soul crushing argument where nobody’s even arguing that lasts for days but feels like years. Suddenly I’m on the freeway fantasizing about driving to the ocean and pressing the gas pedal to the floor when I get to the beach and preying to God that the car won’t get stuck in the sand. Minutes feel like days. Days feel like years. You know what I mean.

I asked her a while back if I should get Viagra and she got really angry. I’ve learned through trial and error that it must be some version of perfect or I’m completely screwed (no pun intended). I’m suspicious that she may be a little bit on the spectrum, but I know I’m probably just making excuses for my inability to understand.

I genuinely believe that talking to a good therapist will help immensely because SHE needs to hear what I have been trying to say from an expert, instead of listening to me and thinking I’m just making excuses for being lazy or selfish. Maybe then I can be allowed (and allow myself) to do and have the things I need to survive.

 

[AspieChris]

And, of course, hopefully get some answers and advice.

 

[Rodafina]

No advice for you today @AspieChris. Just appreciating the enormity of your struggle and offering compassion and strength. Keep breathing.

 

[AspieChris]

Tapering totally sucks. I know that I need 3 days to create a new pattern. It’s miserable, but it’s over quickly. I keep looking back and saying “If I had just quit 3 days ago….”. But then I get home from work, fried, and step back into my pattern of drinking at 3:00. It’s worse because my wife loves me so much, and she can see that I’m at the end of my rope, so she tells me that I need a drink.