1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Featured Functional or not functional, for what?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by 4na11, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    All tribes are stronger. Ours too.
    It is not only our aggressors who are more powerful.
    We are understanding ourselves better, we are gathering within our tribe, we are finding our space.
    Survival mood is the only option when we are unconscious, alone and in a hostile place. This is my present situation, but I am working on the 3 things: becoming more aware of who I am, gathering within my tribes (we have many), and getting the hell out of the hostile place that put me in this situation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. zozie

    zozie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    156
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Karma:
    +324
    Welcome, then. We're glad you're here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    First of all, @Neonatal RRT , thank you so much for this wonderful and clear presentation. It feels we are completing each others thoughts, and that is what makes the experience in this forum so gratifying.
    We humans in general want to group. This is why we are here, trying to find our tribe.
    The point is that we belong to many tribes, not just to one. As you said, there are tribes grouping people because of different reasons. Neurotypicals is one type of tribe. You could have several cross tribes between all of them. So, in fact we are all unique because you wouldn't be able to find 2 people belonging to the exact same tribes. This is the beauty of autism. It helps to see us all as different people. That is what we have in common - differences.
    You say some degree of avoidance behavior is needed, which would mean, I suppose, limiting contact with those who ‘attack you’. That is not that possible in my case. You also say the ‘teflon’ thing, that seems some kind of move Keanu Reeves must have performed in Matrix, I really don’t know how I can’t diverge, from it, even being neurodivergent. You seem to be more in control of those arts, and I suppose it gives you strength.
    The ‘seed dropping’ thing I found out by not insisting that much in the first time, then ‘abandoning the seed’, but as it was a great idea it grew. And you are right, I don’t care about the credit, we are very goal oriented, we just want things to move on.
    Well, what to say? You are so very right. I am just coming to my senses after being knocked out, but as I said, there is no other way. I would say I am a warrior waiting to recover before going back to battlefield, because she knows that if she enters in it too weak, she won’t last.
    I also see in myself that last moment of weakness, when I try to deny the inevitable war. As if I am waiting to see if something miraculously change. It is a denial thing. I think it is part of this process of acceptance before going to the battlefields.
    This phrase teases the hell out of me. It entices me, it makes me want to live. In fact, it is the only reason one would consider leaving. Yeah, I must remember that there are a bunch of things that only I can do. Once more, @Neonatal RRT , thank you so much!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,928
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2018
    Karma:
    +10,404
    I was talking to my NT daughter in law yesterday about hugging. I was trying to explain to her how some things NT's want out of us is just not going to be something we can do easily. I used hugging as an example and asked her: This person I know that thinks we are friends is a hugger and kisser and if she's been drinking will not stop. I asked her if it would be fair for her to keep doing that to me knowing how much I hate it. I used that example because this person recently posted something about struggling over not being able to hug and that it's a real thing. I responded that us no huggers were finally protected from the hugging others feel they can inflict on us. (She may not still think we're friends after that. lol) Anyhow - it all boils down to respect, I think.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    Yes @Pats it all depends of the value we give to things. For some hugging is demonstration of affection, and being denied that is rejection. For some hugging is invasion and imposing it is aggression.
    Love is like a language that must be translated if we want to be understood. We need to know in the world of the other person what our gestures mean. Otherwise misunderstandings can happen.
    It is plain stupidity to impose our meanings to others, it won't work.
    In this sense, we need to be some kind of a polyglots when dealing with people, we need to understand their emotional language. This is respect.
     
  6. Derp

    Derp Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2018
    Karma:
    +48
    Functioning means being able to live like a normal independent adult which most autistic people can not
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    I am trying to find something wrong with what you said but can't. It doesn't sound good but I can't quite contest.
    Every point I try to build doesn't stand.
    You were short but clear.
    I still don't like what you said but I think you are right. I wish I could find something wrong. Maybe somebody else here could.:confused:
     
  8. SliverOfSand

    SliverOfSand Active Member

    Messages:
    61
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2020
    Karma:
    +139
    To me, the functioning label is relative. I feel like it depends on the situation a person is in. For example, if I am working on a typewriter, or drawing, then there is nothing wrong with me. I can function exceptionally well in my ideal situation. I cannot function when I am in a loud area full of other people who expect me to keep up with their social games, because they quickly realize that I can’t. Other people on the spectrum might be able to deal with that situation better than I can. They can seem ‘functioning’ in that particular situation, but may not be able to cope with other things. I know that I cannot function with a lot of things that other people don’t realize.

    Your point with the sewing machine is a good illustration, but not all of us are just sewing machines. Some of us are typewriters, or lamps, or even washing machines. We all have different ‘functions’, or situations where we preform our best, and situations where we can’t. That’s why within the autism spectrum, to me there are many different forms of functioning, not just ‘high functioning’ or ‘low functioning’. I think that these labels can be damaging for some people. If labeled ‘high functioning’, your struggles might be minimized; and if labeled ‘low functioning’, then people might think it applies to every aspect of your life. I’m not saying this is the case for everyone, but that is how I see it. I’m not sure if this makes much sense, I’m just trying to find the right words to describe it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    autism sliders levels.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Deepthought

    Deepthought Active Member

    Messages:
    295
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2020
    Karma:
    +90
    Social functioning means the ability to interact easily and successfully with other people ~ which people on the autistic spectrum cannot do easily due to social interaction, imagination and communication difficulties ~ as requires low, medium or high levels of personal and or professional support.

    Your metaphorical analogy of sewing machines and washing machines involves though two completely different machines that perform entirely different functions, which are not socially representative as comparable operations.

    I often use for instance the two basic differences involved with how cars operate to analogise social functioning ~ by likening the body-mind relationship of allistic people to automatically-geared cars, and that of autistic people's to manually-geared cars.

    Allistic people for instance don’t have to think or even know about how to manage cognitive gear changes socially ~ as that occurs automatically for them without much effort, whilst we as autistic people have to think and learn about managing psychological gear changes with cognitive ones socially ~ which we have to do pragmatically with more and more effort required with increasing numbers of people. Obviously social 'driving' lessons as such for autistic people from allistic people do tend to get a bit baffling and frustrating!
    Firstly the Ego is a projection of our personalities as a focal point for the pitch, tone and volume of our voice. Using the Ego for any other purpose is a major energy drain and super inefficient.

    Secondly, the depletion of the Ego involves Ego-state re-characterisations that have converted the dynamic flexibilities of our personality embodiments into mechanistically fixed systems of assumed behaviourisms (Personae) ~ as which are mimicked from and adapted with others ~ in accordance with societal ‘non-autistic’ conventions, as tends generally to inhibit and debilitate our individual reality.
    In that sewing machines do not wash clothes, and washing machines do not make or repair them either ~ neither can do the work of the other in any way, manner, fashion or form better or worse! And if we do not make or obtain reasonable adjustments in respect of how we deal with things professionally or otherwise, we may be as sure to fail as a seamstress or tailor trying to make fine silk attire with a sewing machine that is only set-up for making tough leather attire ~ as involves a thicker thread, a broader needle and a longer stitch length.
    In that will-power is more often used to project behavioural intentions via the ego ~ rather than vocalisations and verbalisations, and that it re-characterises the dynamic constitutions of ourselves to become mechanical ego-states ~ which in excess beyond our adolescence restricts our vitality and obstructs our mobility ~ it is generally found that nurturing aspiration is more relevant than will-power in terms of strengthening our self-development.
    Regarding the path of self-development, my favourite metaphysical witticism about will-power is, "Where there is a will ~ there is a stray!" in that will power is derived from a social pretence requiring an enforced behavioural attitude, and the more one fails in respect of socially enforced pretences ~ the less vitalised our actual aptitudes can be, hence the thing with feeling depleted and jaded and all that.
    If we apply ourselves according to the constructs of a socially shared and enforced inferiority complex (involving blame and shame) it is hardly surprising we do not learn to appreciate what we truly are in ‘awe’, and what we are truly capable of in ‘wonder’ ~ remembering that each and every living thing is an indefatigable mystery; characteristically embodied.
    Not quite, in that different wavelengths of empathy are involved ~ with autistic people generally being more in tune with and having empathy for the neurologically divergent, and allistic people generally being more in tune with and having empathy for the neurologically typical ~ on the basis of social similarities and therefore personal identifications.
    We as autistics are but a tiny number of people amongst massive numerations more of allistics that treat us in the same way they have themselves been treated ~ on the basis of sharing in and enforcing societal compliance, and like them we have learnt the abusively normalised ‘ways-and-means’ of society ~ so that we may as ‘outsiders’ better recognise this along with others and raise awareness by exemplifying instead a healthier way of life.
    Autistic people are though proportionally just as much peaceful, wrathful and everything else in between as allistic people are, what with the peaceful gravitating with the peaceful and the wrathful gravitating with the wrathful ~ and so on and so forth all ‘birds of feather flock together’ and ‘different strokes for different folks’ with every other variety and admixture of social or tribal grouping.
    And yet ‘will-power’ is force, as is used to project an imagined state of affairs in place of an actual state of affairs ~ all ‘mind over matter’ and all that ~ which when not befitting depletes ourselves in terms of them having been obstructed and disassociated from our true sense of self, which is our conscious vitality ~ or personal power consisting of unconditional love and intuitive wisdom.
    The less will-power is used to project imagined behavioural ego-states via the ego beyond the current reality of ourselves; the more sensibly we can associate with the conscious vitality of our self within and through our experiential selves ~ generating thus a more balanced state of vitalised and attentive awareness.
    Most of my problem used to be continually recovering ego-state identities that served only to fragment and shatter, leaving my mind burnt out with addled confusion and my body shut down with aching exhaustion. I mean it was difficult enough just being me in the first place ~ so pretending to be other versions of myself just made things increasing more difficult, and then impossible. Since though having given up social camouflaging and personal masking ~ things have very much improved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021 at 8:46 PM
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. 4na11

    4na11 Active Member

    Messages:
    45
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2021
    Karma:
    +111
    Dear @Deepthought I don't know how many times I read your so well written long post and fought with it, trying to destroy each of your points. But you are right when you say will power is a force. I myself am committing this mistake of not letting things just be and use what is here. I could read and try to bring different arguments to all of what you said, but in your last paragraph you say:
    This took me by surprise, because I could recognize here the cause of my present state and the mistake I am trying to avoid. This is what is causing the exhaustion, the burn out: those identities.
    I am so very lost right now, I am trying to find who I am, when in fact it really doesn't matter, and it is better not to be anyone, not to establish someone for me to be.
    I am very thankful @Deepthought that you reminded me that this is what I wanted. This freedom of being fluid, of not being. Maybe it wasn't your intention, you just described your experience. But you reminded me of mine.
     
    • Like Like x 1