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Face awareness

Ken

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I saw this website about autistic and non-autistic face differences for different emotions.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-01-autistic-differ-anger-happiness-sadness.html

I have watched it over and over, but I am unable to distinguish any significant differences in any of the avatars. Maybe a little in the thermal avatars, but that's pretty subtle.

I don't know if that's just me or what. I do know that I suffer social blindness, but I don't know if that prevents me from seeing the differences in the avatars.

Can any of you see the differences?
 
Can any of you see the differences?
I'm someone very good with facial expressions and body language, but you can't imitate that very well with cartoons. I also don't see any differences in them, although I only looked at the first one.
 
I'm 90% sure there is no difference in the pictures. 🤔 Maybe some tiny differences but so small that they make no difference.
 
I can see differences in the images, but they're not good images.

For example ASD's are well known (with good reason) for not coordinating the muscles around their eyes with the muscles around their mouths.

The images don't show the eye muscles directly, which removes a lot of information (IMO this is a good part of why cartoons aren't good for this, as per Outdated's comment above).

@Ken
I can unwrap the three pix for you if you really want, but start here:

Angry: Eyebrow line
Happy: Mouth size
Sad: Eye size

IMO there's too much information missing from the images for them to be used to help any ASD learn to recognize someone's feelings from their face.
 
I saw this website about autistic and non-autistic face differences for different emotions.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-01-autistic-differ-anger-happiness-sadness.html

I have watched it over and over, but I am unable to distinguish any significant differences in any of the avatars. Maybe a little in the thermal avatars, but that's pretty subtle.

I don't know if that's just me or what. I do know that I suffer social blindness, but I don't know if that prevents me from seeing the differences in the avatars.

Can any of you see the differences?
... and I think this was the broader point of the full article. Autistics tend to have less activation of their facial muscles in response to emotional states... which makes us more difficult to "read" by neurotypicals...as well as fellow autistics, leading to misunderstandings and misinterpretations. Sure, I can understand strong emotional states... anger, grief, love... but all that subtle stuff... no way... totally clueless.

There are other articles related to "Do You Look Autistic?" They too, have identified these facial muscle differences. Part of the reason I absolutely cringe when I have my photo taken or am on video... I don't have an expressive face. People misinterpret and misunderstand how I am feeling all the time... and they don't believe me when I say, "You can't rely upon my facial expressions to reflect how I am feeling." People get really confused by that and don't want to believe me... which may lead to trust issues with them.
 
Those avatars are awful. They already look nothing like what human beings look like. What an awful example.
 
I am able to discern the differences, and as @Hypnalis pointed out it is all about the eyes and mouth. I detect more intensity in the non-autistic anger picture, specifically in the eyes, and for me the autistic correlary does not come across as angry at all.
 
I didn't see difference between autistic and non-autistic faces. Of emotions only "happy" I recognized immediately. Others were a neutral expression to me, unless I spend several seconds staring and analyzing the face. No wonder angry bursts from other people come as a surprise to me...

With real people there is a lot more signals to confuse me, starting from color of their hair, and dandruff on the hair. Considering that such cartoon faces are probably designed to show only those essential facial expressions, I am a little bit concerned if I can't see them immediately.
 
Can any of you see the differences?
I can see although I'm not sure if I agree with the authors of the article about the understanding of why. Neurotypical facial expressions in this material also seem more intense. Indeed, the autistic facial expressions would make me spot someone as autistic. I don't know what it is, but this something is distinctive to autistics.
 
Can any of you see the differences?
Yes. Easily. In all of them. They are very small but very noticeable to me. But only in still shots and the first video images before you press "play".

That said, the video just overwhelmed me -- I have very slow information processing so judging from that video (at regular speed - might be better if I slowed down playback speed, which I often do for animated short documentaries or videos where someone is talking and the words are the only actual information) is just impossible...

The video all just turns into a blur of meaningless, fragmented (metaphorical) nothing...

Also it is an artificial scene using not-very-realistic faces where you cannot see individual muscle groups or skin creases -- they are like cartoonified wax statues, basically --

And it causes information-overload with side-by-side comparison of THREE pairs of faces simultaneously in a perfect grid-row of six....nothing about that imitates any real life context with any number of actual people and that automatically throws me
off....

The video is a very different thing to looking at still shots of real or artifical comic-like faces; Or even just a more natural side by side comparison of 2 real or animated faces....

Notes:
(1) I do not have alexythemia. Not at all. Have been told I am unusually self-aware of both my emotions and other inner-state things like why I think and do things compared even to many neurotypical people.

(2) I have extreme hypervigilance when it comes to the nonverbals of other human beings. Plus visual-spatial strengths that compensate for verbal weaknesses in all aspects of life, including social interaction...

(3) I have spent my life relying on my ability to notice even the tiniest subtle changes or "ill-fitting" bits of people's nonverbals to help get me through interactions where I did not know what was happening or what anyone was saying...nonverbals are a really helpful clue;

And responding to the nonverbals generally is often good enough, and all I can do when I can't figure out what they are talking about....

Sometimes, though, it gets me into trouble (for example:_) because I respond to something the other person is deliberately trying to hide...they then respond to my response by feigning confusion and/or get angry and start arguing something I cannot compute and I become more lost and often panic...

This is a survival thing, I think, not just a strength in visual-spatial vs verbal...I have complex PTSD and a life full of continuous traumatic stress -- my earliest memories of child abuse start at about 2 years old. Seeing the subtle details in people's facial expressions helped me to notice asap when things were going downhill or about to be dangerous, because someone was getting upset even if they were trying to hide it....it helped me eventually idenfity bullying when I never understood the insult/joke or what was going on...to this day it helps me protect myself from people with predatory intent....

(4) But the fact that I see tiny details easily doesn't mean I interpret them easily;

Usually I can categorize very broadly into positive, negative, or neutral emotional range;

But only sometimes can I guess specifics ... a lot of the time I see the tiny changes, the fine details, and have no idea what they signify nor how to respond to them.
 
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Update:

I didn't play the video last time I looked /lol.

The "blue man" faces are helpful. They show e.g. the "frown" part of the angry face in red, and the muscles at the corner of the mouth for the happy face. Those are things I was going to cover for Ken if he asked for a more detailed analysis, but the blue pix are better than an explanation..

FWIW I occasionally get a "false positive" for "sad" when I relax and let my "Aspie face" show.
That's consistent with the "blue man" images, where the sad face is closest to neutral.
 
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The video all just turns into a blur of meaningless, fragmented (metaphorical) nothing...

Also it is an artificial scene using not-very-realistic faces where you cannot see individual muscle groups or skin creases -- they are like cartoonified wax statues, basically --

And it causes information-overload with side-by-side comparison of THREE pairs of faces simultaneously in a perfect grid-row of six....nothing about that imitates any real life context with any number of actual people and that automatically throws me
off....
It's interesting to get to know how someone else might perceive it. I have to say I had to replay the video a few times and it was too fast for me to understand everything the first time I played it. It seems like it wasn't intended this way anyway. Then I stopped it at the most characteristic moment.

What spoke the most to me without analysing was the movement. I just got an instant intuition about all of them. It's a "black box" for me.

And I'm known to have a broad field of vision. I might be looking in one direction, but I notice everything 180 degrees.

Having said that - I also apparently have an unexpressive face. But I've been told I make facial expressions around the eyes too when I do and that it looks genuine. Expression just of the mouth looks false.
 
What spoke the most to me without analysing was the movement. I just got an instant intuition about all of them.
That's quite interesting!
And I'm known to have a broad field of vision. I might be looking in one direction, but I notice everything 180 degrees.
Me too. I use peripheral vision a lot, and people cannot sneak up on me unless they are completely behind me and absolutely silent.

I once said to an optometrist how I hate glasses because they make it so all the outer "edge" (it's actually a huge amount of my field of vision -- easily more than 30%) of the world horribly blurry and I constantly see all but the eyebrows-aligned part of the lens-containing part of the frames including part of the arms on each side and she said, "Really?...That's not right..." with this look of frowny disbelief on her face.

Having said that - I also apparently have an unexpressive face. But I've been told I make facial expressions around the eyes too when I do and that it looks genuine. Expression just of the mouth looks false.
That's also interesting. I have been told I have an expressive face, period...

But I know this is only true sometimes. Because often people are surprised or disbelieving when I try to tell them of extreme distress...they said "I would never guess" and "you seem fine"...

In my case, though, I think there may be an element of being trained to hide emotions -- to suppress expression because I would be punished for having the "wrong" look on my face. And have been pathologized for having feelings about things that normal people are not supposed to have...and faced no end of punishment and pathologizing and misunderstanding for being unable to explain the feelings showing on my face.

I also think I go very blank in overload states...in the space between early overload and complete meltdown. And I spend a lot of my life in overload state.
 
I have watched it over and over, but I am unable to distinguish any significant differences in any of the avatars. Maybe a little in the thermal avatars, but that's pretty subtle.
Yes, it is subtle.
I can barely perceive the differences.
Anger was more obvious to me, around the eyes of the NT.
 
... and I think this was the broader point of the full article. Autistics tend to have less activation of their facial muscles in response to emotional states... which makes us more difficult to "read" by neurotypicals...as well as fellow autistics, leading to misunderstandings and misinterpretations. Sure, I can understand strong emotional states... anger, grief, love... but all that subtle stuff... no way... totally clueless.

There are other articles related to "Do You Look Autistic?" They too, have identified these facial muscle differences. Part of the reason I absolutely cringe when I have my photo taken or am on video... I don't have an expressive face. People misinterpret and misunderstand how I am feeling all the time... and they don't believe me when I say, "You can't rely upon my facial expressions to reflect how I am feeling." People get really confused by that and don't want to believe me... which may lead to trust issues with them.
People often think I am angry when I am really only thinking.
 
I am able to discern the differences, and as @Hypnalis pointed out it is all about the eyes and mouth. I detect more intensity in the non-autistic anger picture, specifically in the eyes, and for me the autistic correlary does not come across as angry at all.
The same for me.
The angry NT face was the easiest to identify.
 
I have very slow information processing
You and me both, sister, erm, I mean brother...
Yooouuu haaavvve toooo taaaalk verrrry sloooowwwwllly tooo meeeeeeee... lol
It is like a meme.

But once the information is in there, I seem to handle it reasonably well.
It was very confusing to me all my life. 🤔
 
You and me both, sister, erm, I mean brother...
? (joke? confused)

[edit: confused if you actually thought I was female, or are joking, or what?

and why you would think I am female...?

and if you just randomly presumed for some reason, then double checked (as i have for gender both ways with people on here) and discovered you were wrong....why you wouldn't just edit it out?

this is bothersomely weird to me...2 reasons:

1. I grew up in an era and community where, as a boy, being seen as anything but embodying the epitome of stereotypical masculinity was an insult and its very very hard to erase that from my brain

2. I'm touchy about being presumed to be or equated with anything I'm not (pick a thing - intelligence, motor/physical skills, interests, age, sexuality, gender, culture, nationality, political ideology, socioeconomic class, level of education, favorite ice cream or preferred temperature of drinking water (<<joke...usually)...if you get it wrong and don't immediately and fully course-correct and there is any hint of emphasizing or arguing your misperception has actual validity, I will probably be at least slightly bothered.)

I truly see nothing wrong with being female (or male, or neither) but it more often than not bothers me when I am misperceived -- especially when it happens a lot of times in a short period of time in random contexts and I don't understand why or how in any of them.]
 
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