Experience with a friend who has aspergers/autism

[spencer309]

Hi there, and thanks for allowing me to seek support through this forum. I’ll use false names throughout this post in order to protect identities etc. If this needs to be sent to another forum, please let me know.

One of my close friends, Julian who I know through football, I believe has aspergers syndrome or is certainly on the autistic spectrum. I find some of his behaviour towards me quite hurtful.

I was hoping you might be able to share your experiences on the most effective way to tackle the problem, without alienating him.

Julian is broadly the same age as me, in his early 30s, and we have developed a close friendship in the years I have known him (since May 2009). I’ve always found the friendship to be a little one sided - but I just accepted it as part of who he is.

However, in the last year, things have become more difficult for me with him. He has come on two occasions to stay with me in the city where I live. On the first occasion, he used Facebook to find another fan of our football club located here, a guy called Joey. Initially, I didn’t mind him doing this. Always good to meet someone locally with similar interests etc.

But since that first meeting, and when we have met since at football it feels like all he talks about it is Joey. When he came to visit me a second time, just last month, literally 90% of our conversation revolved around Joey. Personally, I felt really hurt, as Joey isn’t the one who is picking him up from the airport, driving him around the country to show him sights, and giving him a free room to stay in. I felt used.

Of the three days he was here, Joey only showed for one of these, making excuses the other times, including one which I found to be a lie. I had to bite my tongue on a number of occasions as Julian rattled on about how wonderful Joey is and all the wonderful plans they have.

Julian has treated me as a backup option when Joey is not available. Things are always based around what Joey wants to do and we all go along with it. I feel Julian would ditch me in a second if he had a better offer.

Joey has not been the best of friends to Julian - he was quite aggressive towards him as they were running late for a soccer match in Manchester, and being quite insensitive to his condition. I picked up the pieces after Joey had gone clubbing in the city - with Julian being quite upset. But a week later, it was as if nothing had happened.

The advent of a sustained period of success at our soccer club has made away tickets extremely hard to get hold of. Julian is a loyal fan, and is able to get tickets which would not be accessible to the likes of many other supporters.

Julian appears happy to go out of his way to facilitate Joey with tickets to these games, but he wouldn’t do the same for me.

There was an incident almost on the eve of Julian’s latest visit to see me that made my blood boil.

I had asked him if he could sort me out a soccer ticket which would have been readily available to him, and that I could attend the game with him. He initially promised. But then when it came to the crunch, in effect, he told me he had given it to somebody else.

I found this really distressing (I actually got quite tearful). It made me feel that he will never really truly appreciate how good of a friend I am to him. While Joey constantly asks Julian for away tickets, I only asked him on that one occasion. And based on that experience, I’m not sure I’d be able to trust him again.

I have gone out of my way for Julian. I’ve introduced him, and made him feel included into my group of friends at the football. When he has visited me, I have gone above and beyond what should be expected. As he could not be left alone, I have taken time off work, and the times I could not be with him, I‘ve organised friends to be around so as to ensure he is not left alone. The last occasion he came to visit me, I was in the middle of moving house, so it could not have been more inconvenient.

Ultimately, I’d like to try and get across to him how good of a friend I am to him, how hurtful I find his behaviour - and perhaps just ask him, if he ever does have soccer tickets going, to consider me. It’s not something I’d seek out on a regular basis, but occasionally it’d be nice.

I want him to be aware that friendship involves give and take, and there is very little of that from him at the moment. Conversely, I feel his friendship with Joey is very one-sided with Joey being the beneficiary.

At the same time, I don’t want to alienate him, or make him feel bad. But I do feel his behaviour towards me can be unacceptable at times and on a selfish level, it’s affecting my own mental health.

Anyway, sorry for the long tome and thanks for reading to the end - I’d love your thoughts.

- Spencer

 

[Southern Discomfort]

Well he obviously looks up to Joey for what ever reason. I would like to ask him what he sees in Joey.

Yes, this can seem difficult to talk about to him without coming across as if you're jealous. He does need to appreciate what you do for him more.

I think the only way you're going to get around this is if you have a calm, quiet talk with Julian. It is entirely possible he is blind to his behaviour, autistic or not. Just mention that you don't feel like he truly appreciates what you do for him and how you've made him feel included and that you would like to just make him aware of this.

I hope that helps.

 

[Lady Penelope]

You could discuss with him how he sees his friendship with joey and some of the reasons why...and how he sees you and your friendship and why, he may reveal his bias.
You could then raise the discussion of friendship in general and what makes a good friendship... point out some examples and discuss with him.

 

[Judge]

Selfishness, jealousy, and lots of one-sided socialization happening. I'm not saying it can't happen with neurodiverse people, but IMO you haven't provided enough to really look at such issues from that perspective alone.

In all honesty I can't seem to get past questioning whether your friend is on the spectrum of autism at all. I think you'd have to provide far more details to allow me to even consider approaching your concerns from a perspective of neurodiverse traits and behaviors.

Many of us here are profoundly alone and isolated. So listening to someone discuss intricate, but relatively common social dynamics like this almost sounds alien to me and perhaps others reading this post. I'd just feel more comfortable elaborating only with more information relative to your friend possibly being on the spectrum as opposed to just guessing under such circumstances.

 

[Lady Penelope]

P.s.
Personally i tend to 'obsess' over one friend.
I do not have a large circle of friends and in school found it extraordinarily difficult to determine appropriate behavior with more than one friendship. However.... recently i globbed on to a new friend. My previous friend supported the new friendship as he saw the positive growth. Until he realised my friendship was one sided. Me giving, them taking. It was made abundantly clear to me how rotten my new shiny friend really was. But i needed to be told. I would never admit it to myself and would have ruined my real friendship for my fake one.
Tell Julian what you think and how you feel.
Just be kind and let him draw his own conclusion about joey slowly. Give him tests to prove Joey is a true friend...he will see who is real and who he has romanticised.

 

[Ambi]

Hi there, and thanks for allowing me to seek support through this forum. I’ll use false names throughout this post in order to protect identities etc. If this needs to be sent to another forum, please let me know.

One of my close friends, Julian who I know through football, I believe has aspergers syndrome or is certainly on the autistic spectrum. I find some of his behaviour towards me quite hurtful.

I was hoping you might be able to share your experiences on the most effective way to tackle the problem, without alienating him.

Julian is broadly the same age as me, in his early 30s, and we have developed a close friendship in the years I have known him (since May 2009). I’ve always found the friendship to be a little one sided - but I just accepted it as part of who he is.

However, in the last year, things have become more difficult for me with him. He has come on two occasions to stay with me in the city where I live. On the first occasion, he used Facebook to find another fan of our football club located here, a guy called Joey. Initially, I didn’t mind him doing this. Always good to meet someone locally with similar interests etc.

But since that first meeting, and when we have met since at football it feels like all he talks about it is Joey. When he came to visit me a second time, just last month, literally 90% of our conversation revolved around Joey. Personally, I felt really hurt, as Joey isn’t the one who is picking him up from the airport, driving him around the country to show him sights, and giving him a free room to stay in. I felt used.

Of the three days he was here, Joey only showed for one of these, making excuses the other times, including one which I found to be a lie. I had to bite my tongue on a number of occasions as Julian rattled on about how wonderful Joey is and all the wonderful plans they have.

Julian has treated me as a backup option when Joey is not available. Things are always based around what Joey wants to do and we all go along with it. I feel Julian would ditch me in a second if he had a better offer.

Joey has not been the best of friends to Julian - he was quite aggressive towards him as they were running late for a soccer match in Manchester, and being quite insensitive to his condition. I picked up the pieces after Joey had gone clubbing in the city - with Julian being quite upset. But a week later, it was as if nothing had happened.

The advent of a sustained period of success at our soccer club has made away tickets extremely hard to get hold of. Julian is a loyal fan, and is able to get tickets which would not be accessible to the likes of many other supporters.

Julian appears happy to go out of his way to facilitate Joey with tickets to these games, but he wouldn’t do the same for me.

There was an incident almost on the eve of Julian’s latest visit to see me that made my blood boil.

I had asked him if he could sort me out a soccer ticket which would have been readily available to him, and that I could attend the game with him. He initially promised. But then when it came to the crunch, in effect, he told me he had given it to somebody else.

I found this really distressing (I actually got quite tearful). It made me feel that he will never really truly appreciate how good of a friend I am to him. While Joey constantly asks Julian for away tickets, I only asked him on that one occasion. And based on that experience, I’m not sure I’d be able to trust him again.

I have gone out of my way for Julian. I’ve introduced him, and made him feel included into my group of friends at the football. When he has visited me, I have gone above and beyond what should be expected. As he could not be left alone, I have taken time off work, and the times I could not be with him, I‘ve organised friends to be around so as to ensure he is not left alone. The last occasion he came to visit me, I was in the middle of moving house, so it could not have been more inconvenient.

Ultimately, I’d like to try and get across to him how good of a friend I am to him, how hurtful I find his behaviour - and perhaps just ask him, if he ever does have soccer tickets going, to consider me. It’s not something I’d seek out on a regular basis, but occasionally it’d be nice.

I want him to be aware that friendship involves give and take, and there is very little of that from him at the moment. Conversely, I feel his friendship with Joey is very one-sided with Joey being the beneficiary.

At the same time, I don’t want to alienate him, or make him feel bad. But I do feel his behaviour towards me can be unacceptable at times and on a selfish level, it’s affecting my own mental health.

Anyway, sorry for the long tome and thanks for reading to the end - I’d love your thoughts.

- Spencer

I feel really bad about how I've treated friends, without even realizing it. I have found that what friends remain must naturally have a huge amount of graciousness that they have extended towards me over the years. That said, I am so glad for wisening up (as much as I can so far) about who is a true friend, and who is not. To me, it sounds obvious that this other guy doesn't really like your friend - maybe he's just not sure how to get rid of him, the usual indirect indications that say "hey, I don't really want to hang out with you that much" are bouncing off of your friend. Since your friend is constantly talking about him, maybe that at least gives you opportunity to bring up the fact that he's not a good friend, and what that hints at. Draw up (even verbally) a list of comparison of the difference between real friends and fake/non-existent ones in terms of how they act (using this other guys behaviors vs yours). Be gentle but also emphatic that you do this out of concern for him as a friend, and that he is worth better treatment than that. Maybe he is just all starry eyed that someone like this other guy, who maybe normally doesn't give the socially awkward or those on the spectrum the time of day, has spent some time with him. Or maybe I am wrong, maybe this guy doesn't dislike your friend, but he clearly is not nearly as interested in forging a bond as your friend is. Perhaps your friend is so used to not being treated that well, maybe he has a lower sense of how well he should be treated, so he is willing to let this neglect go and keep pursuing that other guy. OR he's just oblivious. I know you're a very special person in just having the grace and forgiveness to extend to someone who offers a more one-sided relationship, even if he doesn't realize it - maybe that talk would help him understand how to be a better friend, too - which would help him gain more friends in general, as I can't imagine he has loads of great friends if the experience tends to be one-sided - most people would not be very understanding of that, I would think. I am still trying to learn to be a good friend - I am terrible at it. It is a specific goal for me now.

p.s. I'm also not saying that I think you should have to put up with your friend's behavior - you could lay it out and be firm that you just need more give and take, that would naturally flow from the convo I described above, I think. I generally learned from walking into social walls and feeling the pain of that. And people abandoning me - that was humiliating and hurtful, but now I understand why they did it, and how I need to work on certain things socially if I want to prevent that from happening. Even my closest friend has gone through periods where she was completely distant - it hurt/confused me more than if she had just explained what was wrong, but perhaps that conversation would have been too awkward - either for me, or perhaps it was just too strained for her, and after all the effort she already put into it, perhaps that's where she drew the line and though, "hey, I don't need to suffer this additional effort of high awkwardness" and walked away because she needed space from me - like for months. Maybe she couldn't even understand what my issues were. We have been friends for decades now, but I had to learn about boundaries at a FAR slower rate than others, also about give and take. She actually happened to be one of the people I was kind of obsessed with though (yeah, that sounds creepy), so I have done a lot for her, but socially I was hard to take. I think we are at a better balance now, though it will always be an awkward/unnatural balance for me to maintain, I will fall off sometimes. But with her, I know it's never a big deal now. We're friends - like sisters. When I sense I am being too one-sided about things, I correct myself and apologize - she is used to this goofiness in me Humor about it helps a lot!

I think if that kind of conversation or even disruption has never happened in your friendship due to his behaviors, than he hasn't been "trained" to treat you better - he does take you for granted, but doesn't realize he's doing it. I don't say "trained" in a derogatory way. I was "trained", that's the way I saw it. I needed to be, because I wasn't naturally aware of these things.

 

[Gritches]

Hello, Spencer. First of all I'd like to say you're a good friend indeed for seeking advice rather than just cutting Julian off.

Here's my take: it's not uncommon for an Aspie to become enamored with someone else, in this case Joey. It usually doesn't work out so well because the two will use each other in their own varying ways; Joey using Julian for tickets and Julian using Joey in the emotional sense. See, if I'm assuming right here (and you did give quite a bit of detailed info, thanks for that) Julian probably views Joey as a much, much better friend than he is. When the inevitable happens and Joey decides he's done with Julian, Julian will probably be absolutely blindsided. At that point he'll probably fall back on his "network of support", of which I'm seeing that you are probably a part of; that would explain why he takes you for granted, anyhow.

But you don't want to be the "backup friend", which is understandable; who does? If Julian is indeed on the spectrum, there's a good chance he's never been taught how to "act right"; for the rest of humanity that comes naturally, so it is assumed it will come naturally to us, but really we need to be taught. With that in mind I'd suggest a direct approach. Not aggressive, not condescending, just direct and frank. It probably sounds counter-intuitive, but if he is on the spectrum that'll probably be your best shot.

 

[Grandmother B]

Hi there, and thanks for allowing me to seek support through this forum. I’ll use false names throughout this post in order to protect identities etc. If this needs to be sent to another forum, please let me know.

One of my close friends, Julian who I know through football, I believe has aspergers syndrome or is certainly on the autistic spectrum. I find some of his behaviour towards me quite hurtful.

I was hoping you might be able to share your experiences on the most effective way to tackle the problem, without alienating him.

Julian is broadly the same age as me, in his early 30s, and we have developed a close friendship in the years I have known him (since May 2009). I’ve always found the friendship to be a little one sided - but I just accepted it as part of who he is.

However, in the last year, things have become more difficult for me with him. He has come on two occasions to stay with me in the city where I live. On the first occasion, he used Facebook to find another fan of our football club located here, a guy called Joey. Initially, I didn’t mind him doing this. Always good to meet someone locally with similar interests etc.

But since that first meeting, and when we have met since at football it feels like all he talks about it is Joey. When he came to visit me a second time, just last month, literally 90% of our conversation revolved around Joey. Personally, I felt really hurt, as Joey isn’t the one who is picking him up from the airport, driving him around the country to show him sights, and giving him a free room to stay in. I felt used.

Of the three days he was here, Joey only showed for one of these, making excuses the other times, including one which I found to be a lie. I had to bite my tongue on a number of occasions as Julian rattled on about how wonderful Joey is and all the wonderful plans they have.

Julian has treated me as a backup option when Joey is not available. Things are always based around what Joey wants to do and we all go along with it. I feel Julian would ditch me in a second if he had a better offer.

Joey has not been the best of friends to Julian - he was quite aggressive towards him as they were running late for a soccer match in Manchester, and being quite insensitive to his condition. I picked up the pieces after Joey had gone clubbing in the city - with Julian being quite upset. But a week later, it was as if nothing had happened.

The advent of a sustained period of success at our soccer club has made away tickets extremely hard to get hold of. Julian is a loyal fan, and is able to get tickets which would not be accessible to the likes of many other supporters.

Julian appears happy to go out of his way to facilitate Joey with tickets to these games, but he wouldn’t do the same for me.

There was an incident almost on the eve of Julian’s latest visit to see me that made my blood boil.

I had asked him if he could sort me out a soccer ticket which would have been readily available to him, and that I could attend the game with him. He initially promised. But then when it came to the crunch, in effect, he told me he had given it to somebody else.

I found this really distressing (I actually got quite tearful). It made me feel that he will never really truly appreciate how good of a friend I am to him. While Joey constantly asks Julian for away tickets, I only asked him on that one occasion. And based on that experience, I’m not sure I’d be able to trust him again.

I have gone out of my way for Julian. I’ve introduced him, and made him feel included into my group of friends at the football. When he has visited me, I have gone above and beyond what should be expected. As he could not be left alone, I have taken time off work, and the times I could not be with him, I‘ve organised friends to be around so as to ensure he is not left alone. The last occasion he came to visit me, I was in the middle of moving house, so it could not have been more inconvenient.

Ultimately, I’d like to try and get across to him how good of a friend I am to him, how hurtful I find his behaviour - and perhaps just ask him, if he ever does have soccer tickets going, to consider me. It’s not something I’d seek out on a regular basis, but occasionally it’d be nice.

I want him to be aware that friendship involves give and take, and there is very little of that from him at the moment. Conversely, I feel his friendship with Joey is very one-sided with Joey being the beneficiary.

At the same time, I don’t want to alienate him, or make him feel bad. But I do feel his behaviour towards me can be unacceptable at times and on a selfish level, it’s affecting my own mental health.

Anyway, sorry for the long tome and thanks for reading to the end - I’d love your thoughts.

- Spencer

Just because he is an Aspie is no excuse to be a jerk. I would just explain to him (one time only) how these things made me feel, and if it happens again, just learn to say no to him about staying with you, and your driving him around. Aspies have to have things like that explained to them, as they don't "get" how their behavior affects others sometimes. But he is obviously intelligent; their IQ's are often really high; so once he knows how you feel, if he continues these behaviors, I would just say no to him because you don't owe anyone a constant disruption of your life. Best of luck to you! I hope you can work it out.