Empathy

[asman]

For sure as an aspie, we empathize in ways that an NT would not see. It is like Ereth said: '..we often don't know how to express our empathy..."
I do find there are so many times I would like to know how to show empathy to my wife (who is an NT), so she can knows that how i feel about certain situations.

How do my fellow aspies handle this situation? How do you let other NT know that you empathize with them?

btw. i am new to all this. Just been diagnosed a few weeks ago, so i am still learning about all this.

 

[Ylva]

I used to play things up a bit to get it across, but I have discovered that this is redundant since I'm quite emotionally transparent. If you ask your wife, maybe she will say that she can tell, or that she is fine with you not offering a hug when she would prefer to be alone.

Mostly when I don't offer hugs or consolatory remarks to people who are upset, it's partly because I would not have wanted that in their situation, and partly because they can turn their emotional crap on me and I don't know how violent they could get or how loud they could scream.

 

[Judge]

How do my fellow aspies handle this situation? How do you let other NT know that you empathize with them?

If that's your intent, I think all you can do is try. I suppose in the end, it is still the thought that counts, even when occasionally such thoughts don't necessarily materialize into the right words. Projecting empathy has always been a "hit/miss" thing for me. Most often expressed over something I can personally relate to.

 

[ShatteredUniverse]

It's my belief that we often don't know how to express our empathy---whether we feel an abundance of it or less than the average amount. The medical professionals who really know what they're talking about are aware of this key difference.

THANK YOU!!!!

A certain relative of mine is absolutely convinced I couldn't possibly be an Aspie, even though I exhibit many of the signs, because some so-called professional told her that Aspies don't possess the ability to be empathic, and I couldn't possibly be like that, because I've done things that indicated I can be empathic towards people.

(Ironically, this same relative has noted at times that I lacked any emotional response at all at times I "should have".)

We basically get into shouting matches when we discuss this, because she just won't listen. Keep in mind that this person is usually an intelligent debater and such. I try to tell her she's not being objective about the matter, that she can't be objective about it considering how close she is to the situation, but that doesn't do any good. I usually get this line: "Why are you trying to say that you've got Asperger's? Do you want to have it or something?"

It is so frustrating.

 

[Ylva]

Tell her to get over her prejudice and do some actual research.

 

[ShatteredUniverse]

Tell her to get over her prejudice and do some actual research.

XD

Yeah. I wish that would work. The likelihood of it working is rather low, however. Like I said in my post above, she's normally intelligent about subjects we debate, but she's got her heels dug in on this one. Most of the people in my family are rather stubborn, you see.

 

[radasp]

I think that Aspies have something that is better than empathy: (this is from my blog)

The tendency for an Asperger person is to assume that someone who expresses distress wants help, but this is rarely the case. If an Asperger offers an observation or suggests a solution, the well-intended advice is likely to be received with hostility – logic produces the wrong answer. An Asperger may observe that neurotypicals attempt to resolve real world problems through manipulation of their own emotions, and even more frequently, the emotions of other people. For the social majority, the environment is almost exclusively composed of other people, so bad feelings, aggression, shame and bullying are ever-present.

One might think that after being yelled at thousands of times, we Aspergers would ‘get’ that people’s stories of frustration (which often are the result of failed actions repeated over and over, or are due to a simple lack of practical or scientific knowledge) are not requests for help. We stupidly persist because it is in our nature to solve problems. If a person describes a situation that is causing them confusion and pain, and if I can unravel a tangle of erroneous beliefs and misinformation that is causing it, why wouldn’t I make the effort? (rhetorical)

As a group, Aspergers people are accused of being blind to the minds of other people, and that empathy, compassion, or any ability to put ourselves in someone else's shoes is absent from our soulless bodies. The truth is that it is our desire to help in ways that produce results. Unfortunately the social definition of empathy rejects and excludes rational response and tangible returns. A theater of gestures, facial expressions, and words of sympathy and commiseration are not only preferred, but demanded and scrutinized by the gatekeepers of ‘normal’ as the sole measure of human feeling. It’s a cruel system.

This narrow definition of what it means to be human not only impinges on the freedom of Asperger types, but neurotypicals as well are stripped of honest communication by the well-policed forms expression that society imposes (much of it by means of psych/psych). The majority of any population - low ranking children, women, minorities and the poor, are required to stifle their thoughts and reactions in order to preserve the power of the social pyramid. Empowering people with the courage to speak honestly is socially taboo, because honest communication between people confers equality.

 

[Nanda]

Folks, help me here. What mean empathy? Its the bond with others? Its the way we show love or kindness? Cause i don't really understand. And, what it properly express empaty? That's not a individual thing, neurotipical or not?

 

[islandria]

I think there's a big difference between being empathetic with your fellow man and feeling compassion towards your fellow man. I think we would all be little more than robots if we felt no compassion.

Empathy is having the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes. This is a concept I really struggle with. Every time I try to do it, it's a long drawn out process thst takes time and imagination.

 

[islandria]

Sorry, I wasn't finished. The site interface on my phone lost the words.

Anyway, I happened to take an 'empathy test' this morning. Guess what? I scored 7 points out of a possible 80.

That doesn't mean I don't feel compassion. I cry for people. I can get incredibly hurt. I can feel compassion for those who suffer... I'm human.

I just have a really hard time trying to actually put myself in the shoes of someone else. I can't stand listening to people's problems - it drains me after 5 minutes. I avoid those conversations - empathy does not come naturally.

 

[gonzerd]

THANK YOU!!!!

A certain relative of mine is absolutely convinced I couldn't possibly be an Aspie, even though I exhibit many of the signs, because some so-called professional told her that Aspies don't possess the ability to be empathic, and I couldn't possibly be like that, because I've done things that indicated I can be empathic towards people.

(Ironically, this same relative has noted at times that I lacked any emotional response at all at times I "should have".)

We basically get into shouting matches when we discuss this, because she just won't listen. Keep in mind that this person is usually an intelligent debater and such. I try to tell her she's not being objective about the matter, that she can't be objective about it considering how close she is to the situation, but that doesn't do any good. I usually get this line: "Why are you trying to say that you've got Asperger's? Do you want to have it or something?"

It is so frustrating.

Turn it around. The question isn't "Why are you trying to say that you've got Asperger's?" but "Why are you trying to say I haven't got Asperger's?". Why does it matter to her? Why doesn't she want you to have it?

 

[Atay]

He doesn't do a lot of research, then? I mean, he doesn't actually check his hypotheses.

Yeah, even his premise on narcissist and borderline empathy is completely wrong. When professionals are willing to throw out harmful opinions without base, it cheapens the entire field.

Having studied it somewhat, it's my belief that one's ability to process sadness in a very specific/accurate/present way increases one's access to empathy. In the absence of flooding, I believe both Aspies and NTs would have the ability for empathy if this function is in place.

 

[asman]

I think there's a big difference between being empathetic with your fellow man and feeling compassion towards your fellow man. I think we would all be little more than robots if we felt no compassion.

Empathy is having the ability to put yourself in another person's shoes. This is a concept I really struggle with. Every time I try to do it, it's a long drawn out process thst takes time and imagination.

Well put islandria. I think empathy can be summarized as "putting yourself in another person's shoes. This means to be able to understand how the other person is feeling in that particular point in time or how that person would feel in a specific situation. As an aspie it is hard (almost impossible) to do that, but I do understand what it is in principal.

 

[Ylva]

blog.theautismsite.com/stuff-people-say-to-people-with-autism/?utm_source=social&utm_medium=autaware&utm_campaign=stuff-people-say-to-people-with-autism&utm_term=20140501

Show your ignorant relative this video.

 

[radasp]

There are different definitions of empathy:
From a medical dictionary: "the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also: the capacity for this" - which to me, as an Asperger,sounds like telepathy, since the person CANNOT TELL YOU what they are feeling (as if that would be cheating!) You have to 'get it' nonverbally.

Another version: "Ability to imagine oneself in another's place and understand the other's feelings, desires, ideas, and actions. The empathic actor or singer is one who genuinely feels the part he or she is performing. The spectator of a work of art or the reader of a piece of literature may similarly become involved in what he or she observes or contemplates. The use of empathy was an important part of the psychological counseling technique developed by Carl R. Rogers."

It's always good to check word origins: "The word 'empathy' is a 20th-century borrowing of Ancient Greek ἐμπάθεια (empatheia, literally “passion”) coined by Edward Bradford Titchener to translate German Einfühlung. The modern Greek word εμπάθεια has an opposite meaning denoting strong negative feelings and prejudice against someone."

No mystery as to why this concept confuses just about everyone! Personally, I can understand that someone is emotionally upset - but what if it's because they got caught stealing a car and beat up the driver in the process? Am I supposed to feel empathy for them? I just don't agree with the psychological expectation that all humans MUST REACT in prescribed ways. That's saying that certain people (psychologists) get to define and dictate what it means to be human.

 

[Timmy1]

Hi,
Does anyone know if this empathy or what?:

A guy was on the net and saying that he wanted to kill himself and was asking question how to do it.

I then made a post to him such as oh hi m8 how are you doing, forget everything bad that is happening,etc and just get some green tea or hot coco, something to eat and then get cozy, then I was saying to him to think of being in a field with yellow flowers, and that him and all of the the good people are there together. also gave him some really nice music links that are really happy.

but then, he posted thank you but also he said that i am for heaven and he is for hell and the reason he is in the situation and why he wants to die (and you know, he really really was on the line of that despair). but once I then readed his reason and what situation he was in, tears came from my eyes and got this euphoria in my body just thinking and feeling how bad he feelings and how in his situation and just hug him with this compassion and if I would give him my life. i then got this motivation in me that, if he was close enough in my country, then I would cycle to him (i don't own a car yet(i am almost 18), also it was around 1am as and try to give him all the support or help he needed (while i'm not saying if i would make a difference or not i dont know, but I would try my best to save him or keep him good, and I put him in front of my life, I would die for him). and really, he was a really good nice guy and truly in his situation he really was that susidial (like i don't know im not doctor of course) but for him he was in this situation as his mother loved him but he felt gulity of not being good enough,etc.

but just reading his post I got this feeling in my head that just went straight to the front of my head and it was like this motivation and drive and compassion for him. and all everything I just felt like I lit up and would do anything for him if I really could. really, at the time, if he was near enough for him that I could psychially cycle to him to provide or keep him good then I would have, and this was at 1am. (i'm not that fit, but I would push myself to every limit and use EVERY cell in my body to get to him).



its like I would have the concern and do, but when I see that someone is really hurt for example then I just feel my brain and body goes to over drive and would do anything to save them, provide my life for them and at those times I have tears and really feel deep deep down for them.



question; but what type of Empathy is that? ???? any ideas?


thank you.

 

[gonzerd]

Doesn't it also depend on the person one's supposed to empathize with? And the situation that person's in. The more different two people are, the more difficult it might be to put themselves in each other's shoes. For an aspie, it's probably easier to empathize with other aspies, for NT's it's easier to empathize with other NT's. It's very much a relational thing (in a mathemical sense).

Different example: it's easier for a dog owner to feel the pain of someone losing their cat as it is for someone who never had pets.
(I'm getting a déja vu. Maybe I wrote this already, or there's a glitch in the matrix.)

When I see how difficult it can be for us to be understood by NT's, I'd say they aren't especially good at empathizing either. It's just that there's more of them, so those few instances they can't empathize can be written of as an exception.

 

[Atay]

THANK YOU!!!!

A certain relative of mine is absolutely convinced I couldn't possibly be an Aspie, even though I exhibit many of the signs, because some so-called professional told her that Aspies don't possess the ability to be empathic, and I couldn't possibly be like that, because I've done things that indicated I can be empathic towards people.

(Ironically, this same relative has noted at times that I lacked any emotional response at all at times I "should have".)

We basically get into shouting matches when we discuss this, because she just won't listen. Keep in mind that this person is usually an intelligent debater and such. I try to tell her she's not being objective about the matter, that she can't be objective about it considering how close she is to the situation, but that doesn't do any good. I usually get this line: "Why are you trying to say that you've got Asperger's? Do you want to have it or something?"

It is so frustrating.

Sorry to hear it; crazy family members are so frustrating. Personally, I would assert my authority and boundaries in that situation by saying:

"Of the two people in this room, I am the authority on my brain. I have Aspergers, and I know best. This conversation is over."

If he/she tries to twist your words or tangentiate to a different part of this concept, just repeat the phrase. Most controlling people will try at least half a dozen tactics to regain control of the conversation. Just repeat - even if one of the tactics is judging you for repeating.

I exclusively use this when the other party is being objectively controlling and dismissive, and will not engage in a productive conversation. If you can "stay on message," you will likely eventually feel a sense of centering and healthy control after several rounds. It does feel awkward at first, though. I try to keep in mind that the person clearly isn't hearing me, and must need the repetition.

 

[Atay]

question; but what type of Empathy is that? ???? any ideas?

It's probably a mix over too much empathy and too much sympathy. These are wonderful traits that you have, but you must learn how to keep them within healthy boundaries. I didn't, and regrettably lost my 20s to trying to save people. The other direction I've seen is someone being so overwhelmed by their emotions that they shut them down. Neither direction ends well.

 

[Judge]

Reading so many comments about empathy, I realize now that in consciously attempting to better socialize with NTs, at select times I have projected empathy only because I thought it was the right thing to do in pursuit of socialization techniques. Not how I actually felt about the specific misfortune of another.

Small wonder how I comment about empathy as being "confusing". The frustrating thing is that as a social strategy with NTs it works. Yet it's disingenuous on my part. I shouldn't do that even if it invites ridicule over appearing uncaring. Or should I?

You see? It really IS confusing to me one way or another. Very frustrating.