Empathy and Autism vs. Aspergers

[BlueSky Aozora]

You already know I'm alexithymic, but that doesn't mean I/we don't feel affective empathy or that it doesn't have a powerful effect on us. Affective empathy is the act of picking up on moods. Some people can identify those moods with fine precision, but others who are neither alexithymic nor autistic can be oblivious to them.

I'll give another real world example. When my wife and I were dating we were at a Wetherspoons pub in the city we met. It was a Saturday night and it was a World Cup year. The England team had just suffered a humiliating defeat and the pub was full of young men wearing football shirts. I was uneasy from the moment we walked in but I bought our drinks and we went to sit outside since it was summer and we were both smokers back then.
After a few minutes my wife said: "We need to leave - there's going to be a fight."
"Who's going to be fighting?" I asked.
"I don't know, but it's going to happen in about 15 or 20 minutes." she replied.
We left our half finished drinks and went to another pub waaaay up the road. Whilst we were enjoying our drinks in the beer garden of the next pub we saw some people who had been in the last pub with us come in. They were talking about the brawl that had broken out which prompted them to leave. My wife went over to ask them what had happened and, sure enough, a huge fight had erupted in the beer garden there about 20 minutes after we left.
Similar things have happened throughout our years together. My wife can pinpoint with remarkable accuracy what is likely to happen but I cannot, yet I am aware of an "atmosphere". All I can say is it is positive or negative, but she is far more perceptive than me. On the other hand I have been in similar situations with countless NT exes who have been completely oblivious to even what I have sensed.
I have affective empathy which is more sensitive than many people I know, but I cannot identify it's exact nature in the way my wife can. That may be alexithymia, but I still feel "something" when many NT associates don't.

@Autistamatic @Varzar
Interesting. Is it some kind of instinct/intuition?
Or maybe the women can feel danger better than men (because they need to protect themselves from danger)?

I met a friend who always follow her instinct and her instinct is always right. Maybe these intuitive individuals are special. Kinda like sixth sense? But i do read somewhere that intuition can be practiced.

Regarding the empathy, and how @Autistamatic said that it's all guessing and stuff, i feel we still have hope. At least we do feel something, and as we experience more, we can understand more things, and can learn how to provide appropriate support. If possible, we can try to think & learn more than we're told.

In times of need, the other party (our partner or family etc) might be the one who need our support, they are vulnerable at that time. So it can be thought as they experience 'temporary disability' at that time. Just as we need support based on our needs, they also might need support based on their needs. Just like us, each of us & the people need support tailored to them. It's just whether we have the capacity/energy/willingness to do that or not, because usually we are full with ourselves trying to cope in daily life already.

Since this is learnt and not automatic, we might stop when we feel tired or no need to do it, so that's why some NTs might feel that it's not coming from our heart, that we're just masking it. Is it possible that we can change so it can be automatic, thus that'll be our default? Or is it kinda impossible?

 

[Judge]

Half of us on the spectrum are alexithymic meaning we can be slow to process emotions. They can take hours, days or weeks to express themselves, occasionally even longer, sometimes manifesting in meltdowns or shutdowns. Empathy of all types is externally measured by immediate emotional response, but if that response is muted or delayed by alexithymia we are judged by default to be lacking.

Good point. Yet another aspect of our difficulties in communicating with others in real-time. Where it can be easy for others to misunderstand what we say, and how we actually feel.

I can never dismiss how critical the element of real-time can be for so many of us on the spectrum of autism. And how they can unfairly skew NT perceptions of who and what we are.

 

[Varzar]

@Autistamatic @Varzar
Interesting. Is it some kind of instinct/intuition?
Or maybe the women can feel danger better than men (because they need to protect themselves from danger)?

I met a friend who always follow her instinct and her instinct is always right. Maybe these intuitive individuals are special. Kinda like sixth sense? But i do read somewhere that intuition can be practiced.

My wife identifies herself as an empath.. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...mpathy-and-being-empath-what-s-the-difference
From what I've read on here and other sites, I gather it amounts to off-the-scale affective empathy.

I have a theory that empaths and autistics often find each other and get along well. Because empaths have a higher likelihood of understanding the feelings of autistics, and because apparently to her at least, my mind is relatively "quiet" when it comes to emotions. Basically, for her, most NTs are "noisy" with emotions that she can't shut out.

Since this is learnt and not automatic, we might stop when we feel tired or no need to do it, so that's why some NTs might feel that it's not coming from our heart, that we're just masking it. Is it possible that we can change so it can be automatic, thus that'll be our default? Or is it kinda impossible?

I kind of think that would be impossible. Even with my wife, I still use a mask sometimes to give her what she needs to feel loved. She in turn gives me alone time that allows me to recuperate. Being an empath, she often needs her own time to recuperate anyways (but from trying to keep other people out, not from trying to fit in/get along). She also accepts my actions at face value instead of trying to "feel my emotions" which may/may not be actually present in real-time.
I can't imagine it ever being automatic for me.. That being said, I also find masking is a bit like a muscle. The more it's exercised, the stronger it gets, and the longer you can go without feeling so exhausted..

 

[AuBurney Tuckerson]

Autistic and 5, depending on what I'm empathetic about.

 

[Tesseract]

Our tendency to be oblivious to norms can make us seem to lack empathy, we say things that sound cold harsh or overly rationalised to NTs where we are just speaking our truth, being simple and direct.

Exactly! One of those "norms" appears to be an emotional attachment to complete strangers who happen to be famous for one reason or another. That's something I simply have never been able to understand, and I've lost count of the number of times I simply stated a fact and people either took it personally, as an insult of some kind.

 

[Tesseract]

She was also considered charismatic, which people on the spectrum may not understand.

That's news to me. I've always been able to appreciate charisma. People who are charismatic have the ability to interact with others that makes everyone around them feel as though they are special, can accomplish any task assigned, and believe what they are doing is for a good cause.

 

[Canismajoris]

I've lost count of the number of times I simply stated a fact and people either took it personally, as an insult of some kind.

Happens to me too daily when encountering social situations. I just naturally say the things they are from my point of view. During the years I have learnt or tried to learn to remain silent for a while to ponder what people would like to hear. This is stupid, but quite often necessary way to behave with NT.

Ps. I love this situation of social distancing (not the pandemic though obviously...). I only interact with my wife who understands me better than anyone else.

 

[Rasputin]

It has been a while since this post was started, and since that time I have been officially diagnosed as ASD-1, which as I understand it was formerly known as Asperger's. Additionally, I have read several books on ASD, as well as blogs online. I have met with a psychiatrist twice since January, and Theory of Mind and Empathy were discussed. I can say without hesitation that I have difficulty understanding what my wife is thinking or feeling most of the time. That doesn't mean I lack empathy altogether, but it is a very low level of empathy. When she communicates a problem to me, I immediately begin solving the problem. I have learned that this irritates her, as she just wants me to listen while she vents. This makes no sense to me at all. So, I have very little Cognitive Empathy.

Another example was after a college aged boy who goes to my church committed suicide. The family was grief stricken, and everyone at my church visited the family at their home. My wife had me go with her to visit their home. I felt very awkward because I felt absolutely nothing. I faked it and hugged the father, even though I do not like to be hugged. Intellectually, I understood it was an emotional time for the family, but I felt nothing. That was last Summer, and I still have not felt anything regarding their loss. So, I have very little Compassionate Empathy.

The exception to my low level of empathy is that I am very empathetic to animals. I have had pets that for some reason I am able to read their body language, yet I struggle in reading people. Not only am I able to read animals, but they seem to be able to read me. For example, I had a pet Shetland Sheepdog that I was very close to. Closer than most family members. He was very oberient, and I could discipline him just by looking at him. He could read my body language and facial expressions, and he responded appropriately. At the same time I could read his body language and tell when he was hungry, when he wanted to play, it when he wasn't feeling well. Maybe this is normal, I do not know.

 

[Dadamen]

Emapthy is something that can be trained even with ASD. I feel empathy, but sometimes people find me lacking empathy because I sometimes have trouble showing it. I feel more like Asperger's than autism because my school marks are good. I would rate emapthy in my head 7 out of 10, but showing it to others 2 out of 10.

 

[Soleil]

Another example was after a college aged boy who goes to my church committed suicide. The family was grief stricken, and everyone at my church visited the family at their home. My wife had me go with her to visit their home. I felt very awkward because I felt absolutely nothing. I faked it and hugged the father, even though I do not like to be hugged. Intellectually, I understood it was an emotional time for the family, but I felt nothing. That was last Summer, and I still have not felt anything regarding their loss. So, I have very little Compassionate Empathy.

I can very much relate to this. When my best friend´s mom died, I really couldn't feel very much about it, and it makes me feel like an asshole. And while talking with someone who's lost a loved one can be hard for anyone, it was especially hard for someone like me, who has trouble figuring out what to say in basic conversations. I did my best to listen to him and console him, saying what I thought I should say, but it felt so forced.

This comes up in happier situations, too; when my friend got a new job, I understood why this made him feel good, but it was hard for me to feel anything.

I feel empathy, but sometimes people find me lacking empathy because I sometimes have trouble showing it.

^This. It's not that I don't feel anything at all, it's just that my true reactions are much quieter than people would like, so I have to exaggerate a bit to show them that I care. And I do care, really; I'm just not as expressive about it.

But I can express my own joy, sorrow, anger, etc, just fine; it's empathy that I have a hard time showing.