does this quote sit with you? do you agree with it?

[dadko20]

"as a autists its like having a blind brain (not literally) making mistakes over and over again till it adapts learns from its past mistakes becomes stronger (wiser) and moves on in a better way than ever before"

 

[the_tortoise]

Not really for me personally...it seems like it would apply to everyone, because everyone makes the same mistake until they learn from the mistake, dont they? Maybe I am not understanding you properly?

But it reminds me a little bit of a quote I do relate to; One quote about autism that I feel applies to me is "Having autism is like driving 90 mph in the dark with no headlights"

(in the dark with no headlights because I cannot predict other people, how they will respond to me and how they think;

Also because my working memory is really bad and that means my central coherence is weak -- central coherence is ability to remember and simultaneously consider all relevent things that affect an outcome before and after acting and experiencing a consequence of the action -- i struggle to predict how all relevent factors interact and could affect outcome )

 

[Tired]

because everyone makes the same mistake until they learn from the mistake, dont they?

yes, that's how animals learn new things

 

[Neonatal RRT]

"as a autists its like having a blind brain (not literally) making mistakes over and over again till it adapts learns from its past mistakes becomes stronger (wiser) and moves on in a better way than ever before"

I have spoken recently on this very topic. There is two basic types of intelligence:
1. The one earned through some combination of studied knowledge, playful experimentation, mistakes, and life experience... some call it wisdom, some call it a "spotlight" intelligence. You've ruled out all the least likely solutions to a problem over time. It's then, when presented with a similar problem, you go straight to the most likely solution... quick, simple, efficient... you don't have to spend time thinking about it.
2. Then there is the one that is very childlike... when you are presented with something new and you are actively experimenting, making mistakes, learning. Some call it "lantern" intelligence. You are open to all possible solutions and will try one after another until finally, things are understood. More time consuming, less efficient, but better suited for finding solutions that are rather complex.

Neurodevelopmentally, wisdom is earned over time... and most adults, having already gone through the process will quickly filter out those less likely solutions and go straight for the most likely. Most of daily life as an adult, this works well. However, children are often better at solving complex problems than adults... several studies on this. Adults can have too much filtering on and are quick to disregard alternatives. Children do not suffer from closed-mindedness or cognitive dissonance... that's an adult phenomenon.

Now... to the quote above... I think this is an over generalization, but again, not without some truth... at least in my experience. If you are a neurodivergent, so-called "out-of-the-box" thinker, you are also open-minded, with less filters in place, and are more willing to engage in the alternative solutions, will "tinker" with ideas for a while before finally crystalizing your solution. Less efficient, more time consuming, but on the other hand, a significantly more information is obtained. If you have a special interest that you have spent a significant amount of time studying and engaging in, you end up quite knowledgable.

 

[dadko20]

yes, that's how animals learn new things

I feel like an animal. But not in a bad way. Its like everyone around me is human but im an animal minded aka (simple minded human being)

Thats why this whole topic reminds me of hunter gatherer societies. And i love them

 

[dadko20]

Not really for me personally...it seems like it would apply to everyone, because everyone makes the same mistake until they learn from the mistake, dont they? Maybe I am not understanding you properly?

But it reminds me a little bit of a quote I do relate to; One quote about autism that I feel applies to me is "Having autism is like driving 90 mph in the dark with no headlights"

(in the dark with no headlights because I cannot predict other people, how they will respond to me and how they think;

Also because my working memory is really bad and that means my central coherence is weak -- central coherence is ability to remember and simultaneously consider all relevent things that affect an outcome before and after acting and experiencing a consequence of the action -- i struggle to predict how all relevent factors interact and could affect outcome )

"Having autism is like driving 90 mph in the dark with no headlights"

yes! you understood it perfectly ! Now i wonder why we feel that way

 

[dadko20]

I have spoken recently on this very topic. There is two basic types of intelligence:
1. The one earned through some combination of studied knowledge, playful experimentation, mistakes, and life experience... some call it wisdom, some call it a "spotlight" intelligence. You've ruled out all the least likely solutions to a problem over time. It's then, when presented with a similar problem, you go straight to the most likely solution... quick, simple, efficient... you don't have to spend time thinking about it.
2. Then there is the one that is very childlike... when you are presented with something new and you are actively experimenting, making mistakes, learning. Some call it "lantern" intelligence. You are open to all possible solutions and will try one after another until finally, things are understood. More time consuming, less efficient, but better suited for finding solutions that are rather complex.

Neurodevelopmentally, wisdom is earned over time... and most adults, having already gone through the process will quickly filter out those less likely solutions and go straight for the most likely. Most of daily life as an adult, this works well. However, children are often better at solving complex problems than adults... several studies on this. Adults can have too much filtering on and are quick to disregard alternatives. Children do not suffer from closed-mindedness or cognitive dissonance... that's an adult phenomenon.

Now... to the quote above... I think this is an over generalization, but again, not without some truth... at least in my experience. If you are a neurodivergent, so-called "out-of-the-box" thinker, you are also open-minded, with less filters in place, and are more willing to engage in the alternative solutions, will "tinker" with ideas for a while before finally crystalizing your solution. Less efficient, more time consuming, but on the other hand, a significantly more information is obtained. If you have a special interest that you have spent a significant amount of time studying and engaging in, you end up quite knowledgable.

This us some serious high iq stuff it takes some real brains to be able to dechiper this

 

[JayLapointe]

"as a autists its like having a blind brain (not literally) making mistakes over and over again till it adapts learns from its past mistakes becomes stronger (wiser) and moves on in a better way than ever before"

take out the word "autist" and it just seems a quote that applies to everybody. Neurodivergent and neurotypical both. I'd be curious where it is coming from, the initial quote that is.

 

[the_tortoise]

1. The one earned through some combination of studied knowledge, playful experimentation, mistakes, and life experience... some call it wisdom, some call it a "spotlight" intelligence. You've ruled out all the least likely solutions to a problem over time. It's then, when presented with a similar problem, you go straight to the most likely solution... quick, simple, efficient... you don't have to spend time thinking about it.

I feel like my ability to do this is ...awful. I do it, but usually (there are some exceptions but they really are exceptions) any previously-arrived-at-solution/answer is just a possibility, like all possibilities -- even when all possibilities amount to blank space waiting for truly anything when I am totally lost, baffled...It upset: people and make: them impatient and angry with me, makes them think I'm stupid and not worth explaining anything to.

2. Then there is the one that is very childlike... when you are presented with something new and you are actively experimenting, making mistakes, learning. Some call it "lantern" intelligence. You are open to all possible solutions and will try one after another until finally, things are understood. More time consuming, less efficient, but better suited for finding solutions that are rather complex.

This is what I normally do...maybe I should be happy that in some ways my brain is developmentally stuck at earlier stages than people expect based on how old I am, since I will never be efficient anyways.

 

[the_tortoise]

"Having autism is like driving 90 mph in the dark with no headlights"

yes! you understood it perfectly ! Now i wonder why we feel that way

Probably lots of reasons -- lots of differences in how we think...

Plus just the differences themselves are a reason, I think. NTs assume we think like them...and it is hard for NTs or autists to bridge the gap, because we don't know what it is we have to compare our differences..:we can only see our side in our own minds.

Lots of explanation is required to explain the differences, and NTs have less practice with this I think. They are used to being mostly like everyone else and having their guesses and assumptions be right.

 

[Judge]

Philosophically speaking, I prefer a quote attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche:

- "That which does not kill us makes us stronger".

Then again maybe not everyone on the spectrum necessarily has a "blind brain" , or an inability to rise above making those same mistakes.

https://discover.hubpages.com/health/Ten-Historical-Figures-Who-May-Have-Had-Aspergers-Syndrome

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I feel like an animal. But not in a bad way. Its like everyone around me is human but im an animal minded aka (simple minded human being)

Thats why this whole topic reminds me of hunter gatherer societies. And i love them

I would not characterize it as “simple minded”, but more “different minded”. In a world created by and for neurotypical individuals, we do experience things differently than they do… quite literally. Pros and cons. Many of us have some degree of “mind blindness” when it comes to other people… but neurotypicals experience the same with us. Once you have that epiphany, it then comes wise to ask clarifying questions… and assume nothing… do not come up with premature conclusions. I often feel like an observing alien disguised as a human… studying from a distance.

 

[velociraptor]

"as a autists its like having a blind brain (not literally) making mistakes over and over again till it adapts learns from its past mistakes becomes stronger (wiser) and moves on in a better way than ever before"

I think this is simply being human.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

I would not characterize it as “simple minded”, but more “different minded”. In a world created by and for neurotypical individuals, we do experience things differently than they do… quite literally. Pros and cons. Many of us have some degree of “mind blindness” when it comes to other people… but neurotypicals experience the same with us. Once you have that epiphany, it then comes wise to ask clarifying questions… and assume nothing… do not come up with premature conclusions. I often feel like an observing alien disguised as a human… studying from a distance.

I was just reading a study which showed that everyone is totally unable to know what it is like for another person. I’m sorry I didn’t bookmark the page.

 

[the_tortoise]

I was just reading a study which showed that everyone is totally unable to know what it is like for another person. I’m sorry I didn’t bookmark the page.

I hope you post it if you ever find it again. Makes sense to me and i would love to see a good study about it.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I was just reading a study which showed that everyone is totally unable to know what it is like for another person. I’m sorry I didn’t bookmark the page.

Yes and no... shades of grey, as it were. I would have to read upon what perspective(s) they were taking on the subject.

I tend to be a keen observer of people... and I work with the public, so I have a huge data base of experience to pull from.

1. When we are looking at it from say, a neurotypical vs. neurodivergent mind perspective... my point here... I would definitely agree. Very different ways of thinking... far less intuitive... fraught with misinterpretation, misunderstanding... can be quite difficult to understand each other. Clear communication is so critical. My wife and I, for example.

2. When we are looking at it from a neurotypical-neurotypical perspective... similar ways of experiencing their environment and styles of communication... there is more of a connection and cognitive empathy where individuals can make certain assumptions about one another and be more or less correct. They are less "mind-blind" with each other... more intuitive. On the other hand, it's been my general observation that the neurotypical mind... especially as adults... operate more tightly filtered, are not as open-minded, and are more likely to use assumptions, cognitive biases, and can be victims of their own cognitive dissonances. They are generally quicker to disregard and shut down anything perceived as "different"... including neurodiverse people.

3. When we are looking at it from a neurodiverse-neurodiverse perspective... because of the sometimes rather extremes within said neurodiversity... there may be some significant differences in the sensory experience and styles of communication again. However, we tend to be more open-minded, less filtered... in general. We will entertain alternative perspectives, explanations, and neurodiverse people more readily... in general. However, because of that general lack of cognitive empathy... that connection, we are still rather "mind blind" amongst ourselves... but more willing to engage in clarifying conversation.

The exception: I also find it interesting that the overwhelming majority of people who might be considered spiritual (not religious, per se), mystical, more in tune with nature, who often seek out "oneness" with the universe and collective consciousness, who may have various "psi" abilities, perhaps are sensitive to frequencies, can see auras, etc. are not neurotypical, but quite neurodiverse. They are operating on a totally different level of consciousness. Now, these people are often quite empathic... may even be telepathic with loved ones... can literally feel each other... share physical pain, etc... in which case, there is a level of clarity there that I only wish I had... that I wish we all had.

As I am reading this, I am hoping I am getting these thoughts out in the correct way. Generalizations. Shades of grey.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

Yes and no... shades of grey, as it were. I would have to read upon what perspective(s) they were taking on the subject.

I tend to be a keen observer of people... and I work with the public, so I have a huge data base of experience to pull from.

1. When we are looking at it from say, a neurotypical vs. neurodivergent mind perspective... my point here... I would definitely agree. Very different ways of thinking... far less intuitive... fraught with misinterpretation, misunderstanding... can be quite difficult to understand each other. Clear communication is so critical. My wife and I, for example.

2. When we are looking at it from a neurotypical-neurotypical perspective... similar ways of experiencing their environment and styles of communication... there is more of a connection and cognitive empathy where individuals can make certain assumptions about one another and be more or less correct. They are less "mind-blind" with each other... more intuitive. On the other hand, it's been my general observation that the neurotypical mind... especially as adults... operate more tightly filtered, are not as open-minded, and are more likely to use assumptions, cognitive biases, and can be victims of their own cognitive dissonances. They are generally quicker to disregard and shut down anything perceived as "different"... including neurodiverse people.

3. When we are looking at it from a neurodiverse-neurodiverse perspective... because of the sometimes rather extremes within said neurodiversity... there may be some significant differences in the sensory experience and styles of communication again. However, we tend to be more open-minded, less filtered... in general. We will entertain alternative perspectives, explanations, and neurodiverse people more readily... in general. However, because of that general lack of cognitive empathy... that connection, we are still rather "mind blind" amongst ourselves... but more willing to engage in clarifying conversation.

The exception: I also find it interesting that the overwhelming majority of people who might be considered spiritual (not religious, per se), mystical, more in tune with nature, who often seek out "oneness" with the universe and collective consciousness, who may have various "psi" abilities, are not neurotypical, but rather neurodiverse. They are operating on a totally different level of consciousness. Now, these people are often quite empathic... may even be telepathic with loved ones... in which case, there is a level of clarity there that I only wish I had... that I wish we all had.

As I am reading this, I am hoping I am getting these thoughts out in the correct way. Generalizations. Shades of grey.

I agree with you. You are better at expressing these things than I am.

My point was that it never occurred to me that NT-NT did not have mind=mind. (Even if it all is shades of gray.)

The Golden Rule has always bothered me, and this article agreed. The Golden Rule asks we treat others as we would like to be treated. But many people are going to want something different from what I want. So if I give distance to someone hurting, because that is what I would want...well, you see where that is going. It's the first time in writing I have ever heard of someone disagreeing with the Golden Rule in the same manner as I. But I am not widely read on the topic.

 

[Shamar]

"as a autists its like having a blind brain (not literally) making mistakes over and over again till it adapts learns from its past mistakes becomes stronger (wiser) and moves on in a better way than ever before"

The problem is, we build our knowledge on a foundation of ...... nothing. This is why we keep making mistakes. We have to keep making the mistakes in order to build up the foundation we never had. That lack of foundation is the "blind brain."

 

[RemyZee]

The problem is, we build our knowledge on a foundation of ...... nothing. This is why we keep making mistakes. We have to keep making the mistakes in order to build up the foundation we never had. That lack of foundation is the "blind brain."

I don't know...don't really agree that all knowledge is built on Nothing. There are all kind of knowing...including knowledge that is gained by making mistakes. It's kind of up to us how and where we get our knowledge, and what type of Nothing it is built on.

 

[lunarious]

I feel like an animal. But not in a bad way. Its like everyone around me is human but im an animal minded aka (simple minded human being)

Thats why this whole topic reminds me of hunter gatherer societies. And i love them

We must be strong like animals. And intelligent like Angels. And thus become better than both.

There a Japanese (?) Martial Art quote saying: Discipline the mind, Savage the body.