Dealing with extreme loneliness

[BrianWV39]

I am a naturally happy and optimistic person. I doubt I would still be alive today if I were not. For perhaps obvious reasons my autism has led to great loneliness in life and that lead me to having real struggles with depression. I went to many years of therapy mostly to deal with my depression. The problem is we dealt with my depression and not my loneliness. I mean to be fair we talked endlessly about my struggles to make connections. But after more than a decade in therapy I was just as alone and lonely as ever.

One of the many downsides of severe depression is it can lead to a person losing joy in thigs they once got a great deal of joy from. The activities and interests I have has shrunk more and more as the years have gone by. It feels like my world has become smaller and smaller.

I'll admit I am not really sure what I would want to do with a girlfriend if I had one. I just don't know what interests might come back to me. I suspect I will tolerate both reading and watching tv and movies much more if I were in a relationship. Now I feel so disconnected from those worlds, from those stories. I don't do either anymore really. It is tough telling people you do not really know what you will like doing before you start dating them.

I miss my old friends from college. I miss them very much. I do not really have much interest in people anymore. Realizing how different I was made me feel like there was an unbridgeable gap between me and other people. So, I isolated. I am very lonely. I doubt I will ever be very social again. But I can imagine a world where I have a very small social circle and a few very close friends if I have the support of a girlfriend.

I feel like I am in a waiting stage of my life. I am trying to cope with my loneliness long enough to get a girlfriend and try and start building the interests and corners of my life back. I am so very lonely.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am thinking the worst thing we can do to ourselves is to physically self-isolate. I totally understand the implications of our "social battery". I don't have a problem with people, in general as long as it's in small doses. However, being Gen X, there were no computers and phones to hide behind and we certainly were not allowed to be in the house, so it more or less forced us out into society. Introverted or not, we had access to a lot of people and, being a heterosexual male, girls. The reality is that, as males, we simply became comfortable with rejection. Meet a 100 girls? Maybe you get the attention of 2 or 3. Maybe 1 becomes your girlfriend for a while. The reality is that it's a competitive world out there. Nowadays, people want to hide behind their electronic devices, men and women, and it's brutally difficult. The reality is that people need to see each other in the real world in order to socialize and communicate effectively. People need to see that smile and feel physical touch. And yes, there is the high risk of rejection, as there always has been.

Now, obviously, we require a "certain type" of person--- either someone completely the opposite of us that can complement ourselves, to fill in the gaps, and the two of you can be an unstoppable team or someone just like us that can bond with commonality. Those are two extremes, but frankly, by eliminating all the other potential candidates, it makes partner choices more simple.

Having said all that--- nobody, nobody---is going to be attracted to an outwardly depressed person. One look from across the room and "nope." Not going there. This requires some masking. Trying to come across as a bright eyed, friendly, open, kind, strong person when you're feeling depressed and lonely, and vulnerable. How you pull that off requires some acting skills. Bait on the hook, if you will. If you get someone to bite, then there's a potential for that loneliness and depression to fade away, and you won't have to mask any longer.

 

[BrianWV39]

If someone does not want to date me because I am depressed, then they are not the right person for me. I have severe depression due to always being single. That is who I am. I am looking for someone who can still accept me with that.

The good news is I believe my depression should go away very quickly with a little bit of help from a partner

 

[Chingching]

I am prone to depression, self-loathing and suicidal thoughts - and I'm in a stable, happy marriage.

 

[BrianWV39]

I am prone to depression, self-loathing and suicidal thoughts - and I'm in a stable, happy marriage.

I am sorry, want to switch?

 

[Hypnalis]

If someone does not want to date me because I am depressed, then they are not the right person for me. I have severe depression due to always being single. That is who I am. I am looking for someone who can still accept me with that.

The good news is I believe my depression should go away very quickly with a little bit of help from a partner

A generally useful principle:

"The best way to get what you want from another person is to give them what they want".

You have chosen to exclude yourself from that by demanding acceptance of you exactly as you are, without considering compromise or any form of exchange.

It's a valid adult choice, but you're moving the "statistics of possibility" far away from where they could be.

 

[BrianWV39]

A generally useful principle:

"The best way to get what you want from another person is to give them what they want".

You have chosen to exclude yourself from that by demanding acceptance of you exactly as you are, without considering compromise or any form of exchange.

It's a valid adult choice, but you're moving the "statistics of possibility" far away from where they could be.

I have never masked and never will. I have never told people what they want, and I have never played any games. I have no interest in starting now.

But I am a very honest, kind and loyal person

 

[Hypnalis]

I have never masked and never will. I have never told people what they want, and I have never played any games. I have no interest in starting now.

But I am a very honest, kind and loyal person

You present yourself as being uncompromising. Not criticizing - it's as I said it's a valid adult choice.
But you'd be wise to think more about the consequences.

Demanding a potential romantic partner accepts you exactly as you are is a terrible basis for a romantic relationship.
Even if you are otherwise perfect.

BTW: I'm not trying to convince you to change who you are. I'm suggesting you look at yourself from the perspective of other people.
This isn't as easy for ASDs as it is for NTs, and you might not do it as well as an average NT, but it's certainly not impossible.

 

[Azeth]

Personally. I think seeking a girlfriend to 'instantly' fix depression is not the right approach to this. People, who are NTs, who do this are typically see the same result. If there is a relationship that happens, it's typically unhappy due the "I can fix him/her" mentality. Not to say the potential of things improving can't happen, but it very slim chance.

Seeking someone else to fix your life, because you are not willing to do so yourself. This is unfair for both people involved. Though it's more so unfair to the potential partners. I agree with @Neonatal RRT in this regard with no one wanting anything to do with someone who outwardly depressed at all times. It's generally unattractive.

I know you stated that you have no desire make more friends but maybe try to do so anyway. I am not saying to give up trying to find a girlfriend. But make a effort to improve your situation with your socail interactions. The only way to practice is to try, try again.

As someone who has had alot depression on and off, and is likely still dealing with it. The things you feel you don't want to try doing, are likely the things that'll actually help.

Holding on to what you lost in the past, will perpetually stick you in this depressed state. You can say that you are not hanging onto your past friends internally. But by not moving on. You are still hanging on to what you lost, whether you know it or not.

I am not claiming to be an expert. I honestly cannot make you do anything. But all I can do is give you my two cents and general suggestions. That's all anyone can do. The rest is up to you.

 

[BrianWV39]

You present yourself as being uncompromising. Not criticizing - it's as I said it's a valid adult choice.
But you'd be wise to think more about the consequences.

Demanding a potential romantic partner accepts you exactly as you are is a terrible basis for a romantic relationship.
Even if you are otherwise perfect.

BTW: I'm not trying to convince you to change who you are. I'm suggesting you look at yourself from the perspective of other people.
This isn't as easy for ASDs as it is for NTs, and you might not do it as well as an average NT, but it's certainly not impossible.

I am not asking anyone else to change for me. I will fully accept someone as they come. I am not a believer in a person improving oneself. I accept people as they come. So I am just looking for the right person

 

[BrianWV39]

Personally. I think seeking a girlfriend to 'instantly' fix depression is not the right approach to this. People, who are NTs, who do this are typically see the same result. If there is a relationship that happens, it's typically unhappy due the "I can fix him/her" mentality. Not to say the potential of things improving can't happen, but it very slim chance.

Seeking someone else to fix your life, because you are not willing to do so yourself. This is unfair for both people involved. Though it's more so unfair to the potential partners. I agree with @Neonatal RRT in this regard with no one wanting anything to do with someone who outwardly depressed at all times. It's generally unattractive.

I know you stated that you have no desire make more friends but maybe try to do so anyway. I am not saying to give up trying to find a girlfriend. But make a effort to improve your situation with your socail interactions. The only way to practice is to try, try again.

As someone who has had alot depression on and off, and is likely still dealing with it. The things you feel you don't want to try doing, are likely the things that actually help.

Holding on to what you lost in the past, will perpetually stick you in this depressed state. You can say that you are not hanging onto your past friends internally. But by not moving on. You are still hanging on to what you lost, whether you know it or not.

I am not looking for anyone to fix me. I think the fix will come simply by being in a relationship and getting support and care in a relationship. Nothing special, just being in a relationship I think will help me tremendously with my depression.

I am not a naturally depressed person. I am depressed because of years of isolation. I wish there were other ways to fix my depression. But I think the only way is in a realtionship. So that is what I am looking for

I am not looking for anything else right now in my life.

 

[Hypnalis]

I am not asking anyone else to change for me. I will fully accept someone as they come. I am not a believer in a person improving oneself. I accept people as they come. So I am just looking for the right person

You're still doing a "me, me, me" analysis. Which is fine - you need to understand your side of any interpersonal interaction. But it's not what I suggested, because that's the most consistent aspect of all of your posts.

From the other side: your accepting people as they come is of no great value to them.

Unless you find a mirror of yourself, your attitude makes the simplest negotiation impractically difficult.
(And if you do find a mirror, the the "duplicated downsides" will be troublesome.)

 

[BrianWV39]

You're still doing a "me, me, me" analysis. Which is fine - you need to understand your side of any interpersonal interaction. But it's not what I suggested, because that's the most consistent aspect of all of your posts.

From the other side: your accepting people as they come is of no great value to them.

Unless you find a mirror of yourself, your attitude makes the simplest negotiation impractically difficult.
(And if you do find a mirror, the the "duplicated downsides" will be troublesome.)

I just read another post on here where someone was complaining that her boyfriend was trying to change her. This seemed to have upset her and other people on here very much. I am not looking to change anyone. This does not mean I would have a relationship with anyone. But I would never try to change someone.

I would love to find someone that was a lot like me that would be amazing. I have many great qualities and strengths that I would love to find in a partner so speak for yourself. I am not expecting to find someone a lot like me but if I did I would think that is a great thing

 

[Wizardry]

I understand what you're going through probably more than most people ever will. I've never been in a relationship either despite desiring one since I was much younger. My interests and reward pathways have also narrowed a great deal. I also have very limited interest in platonic connection if romantic connection is to remain unavailable.

What you're experiencing is not clinical depression. In fact, I wouldn't call it depression at all because doing so smuggles in assumptions you don't want people to make about you.

Clinical depression is pathological. It is a malfunction of perception and/or the biochemistry of their brain. It can be corrected with reframing, medication and talk therapy to explore confusing feelings. It is generalised, not rooted in something specific.

For someone with true clinical depression, it's almost impossible for a change in external circumstances (like getting a girlfriend) to cure their depression. That's not how clinical depression works. Low life satisfaction based on valid, tangible reasons ≠ Clinical Depression. When the emotional response is proportionate to the situation one is facing, that isn't mental illness, and it shouldn't be treated as mental illness.

I understand why you would call what you're going through "severe depression". In a lot of ways such as persistent low mood and narrowing of interests, it looks superficially like depression, but I'm strongly convinced that grief is the better label for it than depression. I explained the reasoning for this in another thread, so I'll quote it here.

This is a take that I think a lot of people aren't ready to hear yet, but for some people, permanent romantic absence manifests not as depression, not as entitlement, and not merely as longing, but as chronic grief. It's not just the absence of a positive, but the presence of a negative.

Grief is often defined as coming from loss or bereavement, but that is only the most visible and socially validated way that a grief state can occur. Relational grief is not fundamentally about loss. It is about the sustained absence of an expected, meaningful relationship or role. People experience childless/infertility grief when they really want children but aren't able to have them. People who grow up without a father can retrospectively grieve a paternal figure when they realise the developmental cost of fatherlessness. Some people grieve not being able to experience being and having a romantic partner when the desire for that kind of relationship is salient and there's no grounding reason to expect it's going to happen.

We acknowledge that spousal bereavement is emotionally difficult because a spouse is an important part of their partner's life. We validate break-up grief as being real because the benefits of being in a relationship and an imagined future with a significant other were lost. If romance was really as trivial and substitutable as some people like to pretend when confronted with someone experiencing permanent romantic absence, losing a partner should be as trivial as never getting to have one, but nobody thinks about it that way because getting to experience romantic relationships is important for most people.

The logic being used is like saying a rich person who becomes poor feels economically disenfranchised, but a person who's been poor their whole life doesn't feel that way, never did, and wouldn't be validated if they claimed they ever felt that way. Loss-based grief makes it so that somebody with a higher emotional baseline falls to a lower emotional baseline. Absence-based grief often results in a stably low emotional baseline, so it's less visible and commonly minimised.

People who are asking you to accept not having a romantic partner are unknowingly asking you to embrace grief as your permanent emotional baseline. Acceptance-based framing in the context of bereavement is only humane because there is no intervention that can revive the dead, so acceptance is tragically necessary. In the case of grief based on romantic absence, it may be difficult, but there is a way to resolve that grief, so acceptance-based prescriptions are lazy and unethical.

This phenomenon is poorly understood for several reasons. For one, most people do get to have partners and being single is temporary for them, so they can't empathise with what it's like being chronically single and having no reason to believe that will change. They instead project the state they're in while single and in between relationships on people who have never had relationships before, and those states are not the same at all.

Another reason is that this problem has no clear fix, so it exposes limitations of the mental health field. Therapy can't address this issue directly as therapy deals with trying to improve people's lives by focusing on thoughts and feelings. It focuses on things the individual can control, and leans towards acceptance for that which they can't control. Therapists are not dating coaches, and dating coaches are not mental health professionals. I've never seen someone whose primary problem is chronic romantic loneliness say that therapy helped them with that, though I've seen many who have said that it didn't.

Another factor is that this issue raises uncomfortable questions for society. Everybody should agree that relationships should always be formed based on mutual interest and that coercive relationships are never acceptable. That said, if for some people, a life-long lack of romantic relationships can result in a chronic unresolvable grief state that can in some cases make the value proposition of life itself incoherent, what kind of responsibility does society have towards helping people in this situation or reducing the emotional pain being experienced? The current attitude from all sides of the political spectrum for this situation seems to be a bootstrapping mentality rather than any kind of serious analyisis or offering of genuine help. Intersectional analysis goes out the window here (unless you're me).

 

[Azeth]

I am not looking for anyone to fix me. I think the fix will come simply by being in a relationship and getting support and care in a relationship. Nothing special, just being in a relationship I think will help me tremendously with my depression.

I know I came off a little accusatory. I am sorry for that. But the point I am trying to make is that if a relationship happens. It likely will be from the person doing it out of pitty. Which is why I mentioned the 'I can fix him/her' mentality. There are people who fall into that trap. Not that I am saying that anyone is setting one.

Could being in a relationship help improve depression? It may work. But there is no garentee.

I am not a naturally depressed person. I am depressed because of years of isolation.

No one is 'naturally depressed'. NT or ND.

I wish there were other ways to fix my depression. But I think the only way is in a realtionship. So that is what I am looking for

This just means you gave up trying for yourself. Whether you realize it or not. No matter how you want to reason it out for yourself. This will come of as you seeking a relationship to instantly fix your depression. Even if you this isn't your intentions.

I am not a believer in a person improving oneself. I accept people as they come.

This is a disturbing statement. I hope this isn't meaning what I think it means. But I'll ask anyway.

Are you saying you don't think people are generally capable of any kind self-improvement?

Or do you mean that you don't think people should try to change something about themselves to make a relationship work?

 

[BrianWV39]

I understand what you're going through probably more than most people ever will. I've never been in a relationship either despite desiring one since I was much younger. My interests and reward pathways have also narrowed a great deal. I also have very limited interest in platonic connection if romantic connection is to remain unavailable.

What you're experiencing is not clinical depression. In fact, I wouldn't call it depression at all because doing so smuggles in assumptions you don't want people to make about you.

Clinical depression is pathological. It is a malfunction of perception and/or the biochemistry of their brain. It can be corrected with reframing, medication and talk therapy to explore confusing feelings. It is generalised, not rooted in something specific.

For someone with true clinical depression, it's almost impossible for a change in external circumstances (like getting a girlfriend) to cure their depression. That's not how clinical depression works. Low life satisfaction based on valid, tangible reasons ≠ Clinical Depression. When the emotional response is proportionate to the situation one is facing, that isn't mental illness, and it shouldn't be treated as mental illness.

I understand why you would call what you're going through "severe depression". In a lot of ways such as persistent low mood and narrowing of interests, it looks superficially like depression, but I'm strongly convinced that grief is the better label for it than depression. I explained the reasoning for this in another thread, so I'll quote it here.



This phenomenon is poorly understood for several reasons. For one, most people do get to have partners and being single is temporary for them, so they don't can't empathise with what it's like being chronically single and having no reason to believe that will change. They instead project the state they're in while single and in between relationships on people who have never had relationships before, and those states are not the same at all.

Another reason is that this problem has no clear fix, so it exposes limitations of the mental health field. Therapy can't address this issue directly as therapy deals with trying to improve people's lives by focusing on thoughts and feelings. It focuses on things the individual can control, and leans towards acceptance for that which they can't control. Therapists are not dating coaches, and dating coaches are not mental health professionals. I've never seen someone whose primary problem is chronic romantic loneliness say that therapy helped them with that, though I've seen many who have said that it didn't.

Another factor is that this issue raises uncomfortable questions for society. Everybody should agree that relationships should always be formed based on mutual interest and that coercive relationships are never acceptable. That said, if for some people, a life-long lack of romantic relationships can result in a chronic unresolvable grief state that can in some cases make the value proposition of life itself incoherent, what kind of responsibility does society have towards helping people in this situation or reducing the emotional pain being experienced? The current attitude from all sides of the political spectrum for this situation seems to be a bootstrapping mentality rather than any kind of serious analyisis or offering of genuine help. Intersectional analysis goes out the window here (unless you're me).

Thanks that is all really kind of you to write. That is why I stopped going to therapy. I realized it was serving me no purpose. And I could not agree more I have long looked at my depression as an extreme and lasting form of grief. It is just easier to tell people you are depressed as opposed to suffering from extreme grief- because the next question would be what are you grieving. And like you said society is not accepting of the true answer.

That is why I know getting into a romantic relationship is my only way out of this extreme grief. I am just doing my best to get a girlfriend and get into a relationship. Thank you so very much for sharing all of that

 

[BrianWV39]

Azeth:

What can I say I would be very happy to be in a relationship even if she was only dating me for pity. I am not afraid to admit I am desperate for a relationship. So, no complaints from me. Even if the relationship does not last at least I will have gotten to experience a relationship and I can move on from there however I would see fit. But I would love a relationship, even if it is given out of pity. I am in no position to be picky.

As far as my belief that humans cannot improve themselves. I do not talk about my religious beliefs much. But I am a Quaker. To me everyone has a spark of God inside of them. To me everyone is perfect and loved just as they are. It is certainly not my desire to improve other people. I like and accept people just as they are

 

[Wizardry]

I think telling people that you're experiencing grief over never having had a girlfriend is much better than telling people you're experiencing depression, even if they don't understand it or ask further questions. When you tell people you're depressed, a lot of people will look at the "depression" as a completely separate issue from long-term discontentment over never having had a girlfriend, and recommend that you treat the "depression" before trying to date, or see you as someone who is depressed generally rather than not being content with life for a very specific reason. When you frame it as grief over never having experienced a romantic relationship, whether people like or accept that framing or not, they can't try to separate the grief from never having had a girlfriend and tell you to work on the grief first, as that makes no sense.

This issue is poorly understood enough that I think applying the wrong terms like "depression" only give people even more room to misunderstand you, and thus they make suggestions that miss the point. Some people don't like acknowledging difficult or uncomfortable realities, and are prone to give others advice that make themselves feel comfortable rather than seriously considering what would actually help that individual out. I at least prefer to make my predicament impossible to misconstrue or misunderstand, so people (who probably have good intentions) are much less likely to reach for advice or suggestions that miss the mark. In my view, receiving no advice is better than being misunderstood and receiving advice that doesn't account for the reality of the situation.

 

[BrianWV39]

I think telling people that you're experiencing grief over never having had a girlfriend is much better than telling people you're experiencing depression, even if they don't understand it or ask further questions. When you tell people you're depressed, a lot of people will look at the "depression" as a completely separate issue from long-term discontentment over never having had a girlfriend, and recommend that you treat the "depression" before trying to date, or see you as someone who is depressed generally rather than not being content with life for a very specific reason. When you frame it as grief over never having experienced a romantic relationship, whether people like or accept that framing or not, they can't try to separate the grief from never having had a girlfriend and tell you to work on the grief first, as that makes no sense.

This issue is poorly understood enough that I think applying the wrong terms like "depression" only give people even more room to misunderstand you, and thus they make suggestions that miss the point. Some people don't like acknowledging difficult or uncomfortable realities, and are prone to give others advice that make themselves feel comfortable rather than seriously considering what would actually help that individual out. I at least prefer to make my predicament impossible to misconstrue or misunderstand, so people (who probably have good intentions) are much less likely to reach for advice or suggestions that miss the mark. In my view, receiving no advice is better than being misunderstood and receiving advice that doesn't account for the reality of the situation.

I know you said you have never been in a relationship before. I am curious though if you are still trying for a relationship?

 

[BrianWV39]

I think telling people that you're experiencing grief over never having had a girlfriend is much better than telling people you're experiencing depression, even if they don't understand it or ask further questions. When you tell people you're depressed, a lot of people will look at the "depression" as a completely separate issue from long-term discontentment over never having had a girlfriend, and recommend that you treat the "depression" before trying to date, or see you as someone who is depressed generally rather than not being content with life for a very specific reason. When you frame it as grief over never having experienced a romantic relationship, whether people like or accept that framing or not, they can't try to separate the grief from never having had a girlfriend and tell you to work on the grief first, as that makes no sense.

This issue is poorly understood enough that I think applying the wrong terms like "depression" only give people even more room to misunderstand you, and thus they make suggestions that miss the point. Some people don't like acknowledging difficult or uncomfortable realities, and are prone to give others advice that make themselves feel comfortable rather than seriously considering what would actually help that individual out. I at least prefer to make my predicament impossible to misconstrue or misunderstand, so people (who probably have good intentions) are much less likely to reach for advice or suggestions that miss the mark. In my view, receiving no advice is better than being misunderstood and receiving advice that doesn't account for the reality of the situation.

Fair enough

To be fair I might be lonely enough to prefer bad advice to no advice

I am lonely as hell all the time.