Confidence, masking, and general weirdness

[NB79]

So, you didn’t know then, you are aware of it now, but here’s your chance to learn much more.

Spend some time learning about the history of people who identify as transgender and the struggles they have faced and the challenges they have overcome. Read the experiences of people who are transgender but also very similar to you, people you can identify with and show more compassion toward. It could be fascinating and interesting to you to realize that there is a huge population of people out there who are fighting to simply be themselves in a society that has been cruel and unkind. This is our chance to change that and to stop this fear that trans people can have to simply say I am who I am. Many of us got to do that without a fight and everybody deserves at least this much.

I don't have anything against particular persons, i just think the whole idea shouldn't be promoted, less among kids, and gender ideology is bad in general imo.

 

[Rodafina]

I don't have anything against particular persons, i just think the whole idea shouldn't be promoted, less among kids, and gender ideology is bad in general imo.

Again, I must highlight your misinformation. I’m trying very hard to objectively analyze your comments because I refuse to bring a fight into Misery‘s thread, but you keep bringing further evidence that a response is necessary.

To say “the whole idea shouldn’t be promoted” trivializes the experience of people who are transgender. It is not an idea that is being promoted. It is a way that people have felt for a long time throughout the history of human existence. It is a complex social problem that has been denied for many generations because of the unreasonably fearful response of a cisgender public. People have suffered because of this.

So, I will go back to love and compassion and implore you to think about your words here. This is your chance. This is your chance to learn. Don’t listen to me, clearly you don’t want to, but read all the post above and see the humanity there. See the depth of the problem, please. This is not some fad that just showed up in our lifetime. This is your chance to open your mind and your heart and understand something better than you already do. We all have things that we can learn in this life and newness is scary, but it is real and it is there. If the idea of people being transgender is new to you, give it time and try to get more comfortable with it. We are just talking about humans who want to be themselves.

 

[Misery]

I don't have anything against particular persons, i just think the whole idea shouldn't be promoted, less among kids, and gender ideology is bad in general imo.

I'm going to mostly echo what @Rodafina said here, but I want to say a bit myself too.

Here's a question: would you say this very thing about, say, someone's sexuality? Or, here's a better analogy: Would you say that line related to autism?

The reason I say this is because gender identity shares one very, very specific trait with both sexuality and autism: IT IS NOT A CHOICE.

I promise you this: Nobody would choose to be this way. Nobody suddenly goes "Gee golly, I could use some more utter torment and mental anguish in my life, I think I'll be trans now" or whatever.

And, simply "deciding" to do it wouldnt work in any case. It's not like, say, choosing a color of paint for your room. In the case of that, you simply reason it out... what color fits best for this specific room? You dont pull out an already existing color from inside of the bloody wall using wacky magic.

Someone being transgender, or gay, or autistic, whatever... those things are inherent. You cannot simply add them to someone that does not have those traits... it doesnt work like that. You can only bring the knowledge of that trait to the surface of realization with someone who ALREADY has those traits deep inside. And note, "realization" does not mean "activation". It's not like the transgender aspect lies dormant, inactive, unless someone says the magic word. It is always on. It always was on. It always will be on. It cannot be turned off. But until "realization" occurs, it will not be understood, and will thus be even more torturous. I speak from experience here.

I promise you this: if your kid (or any given kid) is not ALREADY transgender deep inside without ever so much of having heard the word... no amount of talking about it around them will make them so. The idea that it would do so is a myth, generally pushed around by bigots with an agenda of hate. Just like how some people believe a similar thing about autism (yes, really, there are those who think someone can "catch" it if they hear too much about it).

Note that, if that trait is present deep inside, they absolutely still will experience that torment even if they've never heard of the concept and thus dont realize it is in them. They dont have to know what it is, or that it is there, for it to make their life into a living nightmare.

And before you or anyone says it: No, there is no such thing as a transgender "trend". It's not trendy to be this way. That's another frankly stupid myth. The reason the amount of people in this category is rising is simply because more and more knowledge is gained (and thus, understanding of the condition... and knowledge that someone has it... can now be reached. In other words, it is now possible to "diagnose" more easily, so to speak). And also because, over time, just like with homosexuality more and more people are coming around to a point of ACCEPTANCE of those who fall into that category. This process is slow, of course... but it IS happening.

So, the myth of a "trend" is merely an increasing number of people who not only understand enough to come out, but also an increase in the number of those who feel SAFE enough to come out. The actual percentage of true transgender people has not changed, has not increased. It's just that more of them are becoming KNOWN, instead of hidden.

Am I making sense here? Someone let me know if I'm making sense here. Also I apologize if anything I said was redundant. I aint so good with that aspect of communication.

Anyway, as Rodafina said, what is presented to you here and now is a chance to learn more and gain understanding yourself. Just like how it's important to learn about autism so you can better understand and interact with anyone who has it.

Please do feel free to ask any questions you might have directly. Keep in mind, every little thing I'm saying here is from the viewpoint of someone who has been experiencing this since... always. Since always.

Okay I have to stop there, my PC's fans just... turned off. I best go deal with that.

 

[Rodafina]

Am I making sense here?

Absolute perfect sense.

 

[Ken]

This is also inaccurate. It is important to be educated on social topics in o

When i was in high school there were zero i mean zero trans students, not only that i didn't even know it was a thing.
Ideas spread around sometimes, and some are bad.

rder to discuss them in a way that is not regressive to social progress that is being made.

You may find the following link interesting.

What Is Trans History? | Perspectives on History | AHA

When I was a kid - actually until late in life, no one knew anything about autism. It was never discussed or mentioned or thought about. However, I suffered from it regardless of the ignorance of it. Indeed, I suffered more then than I do now since it is now known - and disclosed - that I am autistic. None of my suffering was due to any form of promotion. Keeping things unknown or secret is only beneficial to bigots; never to the people who are suffering. Because you don't see something or are ignorant to something doesn't mean it isn't there. When things are actively kept hidden, it is intended that you don't see it and kept ignorant about it. Rest assured, there are a lot of things in life that society successfully keeps hidden. And, that is morbidly painful to those who are kept hidden.

It is said that ignorance is bliss. In reality, that is a catastrophically false statement. People die everyday due to ignorance. At best, people suffer every day due to ignorance.

 

[Streetwise]

Again, I must highlight your misinformation. I’m trying very hard to objectively analyze your comments because I refuse to bring a fight into Misery‘s thread, but you keep bringing further evidence that a response is necessary.

To say “the whole idea shouldn’t be promoted” trivializes the experience of people who are transgender. It is not an idea that is being promoted. It is a way that people have felt for a long time throughout the history of human existence. It is a complex social problem that has been denied for many generations because of the unreasonably fearful response of a cisgender public. People have suffered because of this.

So, I will go back to love and compassion and implore you to think about your words here. This is your chance. This is your chance to learn. Don’t listen to me, clearly you don’t want to, but read all the post above and see the humanity there. See the depth of the problem, please. This is not some fad that just showed up in our lifetime. This is your chance to open your mind and your heart and understand something better than you already do. We all have things that we can learn in this life and newness is scary, but it is real and it is there. If the idea of people being transgender is new to you, give it time and try to get more comfortable with it. We are just talking about humans who want to be themselves.

I'd like to know why WOMEN have to be erased, so men who say they are women, can invade WOMENS safe spaces,leer at young girls in changing rooms,rape WOMEN in prisons,intimidate,now impact even health care

 

[Forest Cat]

I promise you this: if your kid (or any given kid) is not ALREADY transgender deep inside without ever so much of having heard the word... no amount of talking about it around them will make them so. The idea that it would do so is a myth, generally pushed around by bigots with an agenda of hate.

There has been a huge discussion here about that and the thing people are protesting against is 5 year olds in kindergarten being exposed to adult sexuality and adult problems. Many people think kids should be allowed to be kids, they shouldn't have to deal with it, they are too young. They don't think about things like that unless people force them to.

 

[Rodafina]

I'd like to know why WOMEN have to be erased,

They don’t.

so men who say they are women,

This does not describe trans women.

can invade WOMENS safe spaces,leer at young girls in changing rooms,

These people sound like predators… Again, this does not describe trans people, so it is irrelevant.

rape WOMEN in prisons,

Prisons are full of very serious problems including violence from one prisoner to another, also including violence from staff toward prisoners. I agree that prisons are a problem for prisoners, but again, I don’t understand the relevance because this does not describe trans women.

intimidate,now impact even health care

This sounds like a generalization followed by misinformation.

I find your post lacking salience as everything you wrote has nothing to do with transgender women.

 

[Rodafina]

They don't think about things like that unless people force them to.

This does not seem true. Children definitely start thinking about these things on their own. It is very natural for children to discover their identity at a young age.

 

[Misery]

This does not seem true. Children definitely start thinking about these things on their own. It is very natural for children to discover their identity at a young age.

Well put. Also, you're just in time, as I was typing this up.

Here, have a look at this:

The story relates to a transgender child... who declared herself to be a girl at about 4 years old. Note that her mom was very AGAINST the concept at the time (against any LGBTQ stuff at all), so no... the kid wasnt pushed or pressured or influenced into it. And likely hadnt even heard of the concept.

Like I've said so many times, the thing about all of this stuff is that nobody teaches it to you. Kids dont learn to be transgender. Nobody does. Including me. You either start out that way, or you never will be that way... just like with autism. You cant "learn" to be autistic any more than you can learn to be transgender.

I appreciate the constant support, by the way, Rodafina. Really. I'm so glad you're on this forum.

Many people think kids should be allowed to be kids, they shouldn't have to deal with it, they are too young.

Yes! I agree! They should be allowed to just freaking be themselves and have good childhoods and everything. I got fortunate myself in that my parents always let me be myself... even when I was being "weird" (neither my gender stuff OR my autism was known at the time, so we had no other label for any of my behaviors or tendencies, and "weird" always suited me just fine in my own mind).

But for a lot of transgender kids... they arent allowed that. They arent allowed to be themselves and they are forced to endure it... they get no choice. There's a reason the suicide rate for them is so ridiculously high.

Just something to keep in mind.

As for what kids should learn? Just in general? Honestly the only thing kids need to learn is kindness.... that's it, when it comes to this. That's all they need. Just teach them some bloody kindness towards others... that's all. So much bigotry of all types could be avoided by JUST doing that. Imagine how many of us here, on this very site, could have avoided torment if the bullies that harassed us had been taught such a thing?


Also, on a side note, I want to point out that this thread was brought back by like, a master necromancer or something. Like seriously this thread is over a month old. I barely even remember what was going on in it. I posted it looking for support (obviously) but I'm now a month down the line from that, I already got whatever it was I needed out of it, so I'm *entirely* lost on whatever was going on before.

Just wanted to point that out.

 

[Rodafina]

Yes but the problem people have is kids being forced to deal with adult sexuality and adult problems. And that some people try to get involved with how other peoples kids are raised and what they learn. For example, teachers teaching young children about adult things, things kids should not have to deal with until they get older.

That's pretty much the worst thing people can do. Peoples kids are where the line is drawn, when people cross that line things get ugly fast. You can do a lot to people and get away with it but when you're talking about people kids, that's the most important thing for them.

What about transgender children? Do they not need protection, too?

 

[Rodafina]

Come on, 4 year old kids are not old enough to understand what these things are

Are you sure? Child development theory suggests the opposite.

The only reason a 4 year would ever talk about something like that, is because someone exposed them to it

Again, this goes against child development research and theory.

If my 4 yeard old daughter came home and started talking about these things

I would argue that children come home from school thinking about all kinds of things and it is a parent’s role to guide them as they see fit.

 

[Misery]

Come on, 4 year old kids are not old enough to understand what these things are. A 4 year old have no clue what transgender is or means, they just repeat what they have seen or heard. They are not old enough to make big desicions or understand, they're 4. The only reason a 4 year would ever talk about something like that, is because someone exposed them to it. If my 4 yeard old daughter came home and started talking about these things, someone would have to quickly pack their things and move to the other side of the country before I found them. It's so wrong, leave the poor kids alone, let them be kids, there's plenty of time for them to deal with the horrible world later.

Have a look at the bit where I point out that video there. The big obvious video there. Watch if you want, but to explain: Transgender girl, that kid. The kid declared it herself. Just out of nowhere. At four years old (to a parent who REALLY wasnt on the LGBTQ side, so no, she wasnt influenced towards it). She didnt understand "what these things are". But she DID understand that she was a girl. It's that bloody simple. There's no deep complexity or "adult issues" there.

Ye gods, it's freaking CHRISTMAS, by the way, did I mention that? Are we really going to dive into hateful nonsense today? I dont mean specifically you, you arent the one who resurrected this accursed thread and you arent the source of my current irritation. The one who IS the source posted exactly one super nasty statement out of nowhere and then ran off, because of course.

Normally I'm all willing to get irritable and argue for freaking pages and such because I'm an incendiary little snot, but I aint in the mood to put up with this nonsense this time. From anyone.

If this whole thing gets any slimier, I'm merely going to allow the mods to handle it this time around while I simply wander off and do something else.

 

[Rodafina]

I appreciate the constant support, by the way, Rodafina. Really. I'm so glad you're on this forum.

Thank you.

This is wrong to be having to listen to this at this time on this forum.

It is hateful and closed minded to speak of other humans in this way. Transgender children deserve support and love and protection so they can grow into adults who are free and sure and safe in the world.

@Misery, I will stand by you.

 

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[Forest Cat]

It's difficult to understand that people think 4 year old children are capable of understanding this or make desicions. Because they are not, they are 4. I don't think these people have kids. And they are trying to expose other peoples kids to this. I had a daughter. And I would have done anything to protect her from this. It's just sad, that's all. It makes me sad. Kids are innocent, they shouldn't have to deal with the adult world or adult problems. That's our job, the adults. Don't put that weight on their tiny shoulders.

 

[1ForAll]

@Streetwise

Women are not being erased. More women are standing up for their rights, are being more involved in powerful positions and refuse to be pushed down and be defined by stereotypes. By opening up the door there for more opportunities for themselves, by being more assertive and sharing their struggles, abuses against them and needs, they are actually opening up more doors for more others that are being repressed and being judged unfairly too because of gender, race, identity, nationality, age, etc. How many of those women who are gaining or striving for equal footing may be very empathetic to LBGQT rights? I bet the majority. And yet you make it sound like you are for all women? Well, could it be these women know more than you about LBGQT persons? Your ignorance of transgender persons and stereotyping there does not shock me. After all, you have stereotyped ASD guys and males too, in other posts of yours, showing them in very unflattering, unfair and prejudicial light. That's a poor reflection on you, not them.

 

[Rodafina]

It's difficult to understand that people think 4 year old children are capable of understanding this or make desicions. Because they are not, they are 4. I don't think these people have kids. And they are trying to expose other peoples kids to this. I had a daughter. And I would have done anything to protect her from this. It's just sad, that's all. It makes me sad. Kids are innocent, they shouldn't have to deal with the adult world or adult problems. That's our job, the adults. Don't put that weight on their tiny shoulders.

It is clear that you care about young children. I just wish this compassion extended to children who do not feel like themselves and grow up in a society that tells them everything about them is wrong, when it is not.

Any of us here on the spectrum, I would imagine, can have some understanding of this - having to come to terms with who we are and accept that, regardless of what bigots, bullies, and the misinformed say.

Please remember two things:

One, as you shared recently, you come from a culture where conformity is highly valued, and being transgender does probably fall outside of the realm of conformity at this point in time. So you are influenced by your culture, and others are influenced by a different one.

Secondly, accepting trans people and showing decency and humanity has nothing to do with hurting young children. Nobody here wants to hurt young children and arguing that treating trans people like humans harms young children does not compute for me.

These arguments are based on fear and archaic ideas. I would urge you to read more about the science of child development. Understanding this from a parent’s point of view, a researcher’s point of view, and a mental health provider’s point of view can all add up to greater understanding of what children actually experience as they grow.

@Forest Cat, we have become buddies through the games, and I know we have things in common, although it is clear we disagree here. I do want to respect the mods and the ethos of the site, so I don’t intend to post on this thread any longer. But if you want to discuss it through private message, I will do that.

I respect the idea that you are entitled to your own opinion, but I believe it is hurting people. The reason I am so assertive here is because of the following.…

This is a life and death situation. Transgender peoples’ lives are at risk for simply being who they are. In the States, there is a huge problem of violence toward people who are transgender and it is horrifying and heartbreaking and unacceptable. The real risk for loss of life is to adults and teens who are transgender, not four-year-old children in the classroom.