Cognitive empathy/theory of mind

[Gift2humanity]

Aspergers/autistics are known to have a lot of affective empathy, which is often misunderstood by professionals. The ability to feel what someone else is feeling.

What I lack, and many other people on the spectrum, is cognitive empathy/theory of mind, the ability to gauge others intentions, mental states.

It is the lack of this second type of empathy, the title of the thread that has caused vulnerability in me, as lacking this type of empathy means I am easily manipulated.

My question is, who on here has got cognitive empathy/theory of mind?
My other question is, what helped you get cognitive empathy/theory of mind?

 

[Thinx]

Mines not bad, though I can be naive and realise it sometimes in retrospect, but presumably other times I don't. I am very much a thinker, and have done a lot of therapy, I think a combination of liking to think things through and reflect, developing logical thinking and reflective thinking through education and trainings, and doing therapy, all have helped me have a version of cognitive empathy that works quite well.

Just to say, I do not think our emotional empathy works the same as what is often meant by the term. What I sometimes get emotionally is a kind of download effect from others, whereas I think usually what is meant by this term is that the person, picks up on what the other is feeling in an emotional and cognitive way, a way that implies emotional and cognitive understanding.

I actually don't usually empathise through feeling anything, but my close observation of others along with my thinking produces quite a good substitute. Useful for a counsellor.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Mines not bad, though I can be naive and realise it sometimes in retrospect, but presumably other times I don't. I am very much a thinker, and have done a lot of therapy, I think a combination of liking to think things through and reflect, developing logical thinking and reflective thinking through education and trainings, and doing therapy, all have helped me have a version of cognitive empathy that works quite well.

Just to say, I do not think our emotional empathy works the same as what is often meant by the term. What I sometimes get emotionally is a kind of download effect from others, whereas I think usually what is meant by this term is that the person, picks up on what the other is feeling in an emotional and cognitive way, a way that implies emotional and cognitive understanding.

I actually don't usually empathise through feeling anything, but my close observation of others along with my thinking produces quite a good substitute. Useful for a counsellor.

Thank you, it sounds as if you do have Tom. Did you read fiction as a child?

 

[Finder]

This gives me a lot of problems. Not only am I manipulated, but I cannot see the hidden agendas other have.

 

[Gift2humanity]

This gives me a lot of problems. Not only am I manipulated, but I cannot see the hidden agendas other have.

Me neither

 

[Thinx]

I did read fiction as a child, tons of it. That probably did help. Except actually the world isn't a lot like school stories from the turn of the century, E. Nesbit adventures of a similar era, Rosemary Sutcliff stories of Roman Britain etc. I had a romantic view of the world, but it's an aspect of how things are I guess.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I did read fiction as a child, tons of it. That probably did help. Except actually the world isn't a lot like school stories from the turn of the century, E. Nesbit adventures of a similar era, Rosemary Sutcliff stories of Roman Britain etc. I had a romantic view of the world, but it's an aspect of how things are I guess.

Like me, we’re you easily manipulated?

 

[Thinx]

I wasn't easily manipulated, I think because I always had a certain mistrust of others that came from my father's approach to the world. I think he was an Aspie. But I was never so cynical as he seemed at times. I was and am more of a health and safety officer, as it were. Pointing out potential dangers and pitfalls to myself and sometimes others.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I wasn't easily manipulated, I think because I always had a certain mistrust of others that came from my father's approach to the world. I think he was an Aspie. But I was never so cynical as he seemed at times. I was and am more of a health and safety officer, as it were. Pointing out potential dangers and pitfalls to myself and sometimes others.

Thanks. I hope it’s ok that I have decided to follow you.
I wanted to read more of your posts but I respect that you prefer to keep your profiles readership limited.
Do you think it was fiction reading that helped you to spot dangers and pitfalls, or your Dads influence?
Although I am risk averse, my impulsivity has opened me to dangers and pitfalls in my life.

 

[Soleil]

I don't quite understand these terms...

I think I'm pretty good at cognitive empathy. I don't really have a lot of experience dealing with people, so I don't have a lot of real life practice, but I've taken some online tests and come out pretty much on the same level as NTs.

As for feeling other people's emotions, I don't know. Honestly, if they're upset or anxious, then I get anxious too. If they're sad, then I feel awkward because I don't know how to fix it. And if they're happy, everything is fine.

I am pretty naïve though, and it once cost me almost all of my Pokémon cards. And if people treat me nice, I'm nice back, even if they have a history of being mean to me. Not because I'm super forgiving or anything, it just doesn't occur to me to act otherwise.

 

[Thinx]

Well I think it's often a combination of things that add up to the way a person is, different aspects of personality, upbringing, parental influences, neurology, intellect, etc. And what one then does to address issues, like self development, trainings and therapy.

I think the idea that reading fiction helps children predict real life outcomes and make links cognitively has something in it, but probably it doesn't go much beyond childhood, as an aid to understanding life. But it may get processes linked up or fire development I suppose, if that's how the brain works?

 

[John M]

I would saying growing up in a very manipulative home and having to sometimes deal with manipulative people due to the nature of my job gave me a certain degree of cognitive empathy. For me, its based on observing patterns of behavior and intuition. I don't know that this is especially helpful but, if people try to manipulate you enough you develop strategies to deal with it. When I was young this meant suppressing my emotions to an extreme. You can't manipulate my feelings if I don't feel them. This made other things very difficult of course but I care a great deal about my autonomy. Sacrifices just had to be made. As I aged I got better at identifying and dealing with manipulative behavior, at least if it involved matters I cared about. I pick my battles because I'm not ever going to be in a position where I can deal with all the manipulation that occurs. Most of its fairly harmless anyway. Deal with the manipulations that you know will cause harm to you and others and ignore the rest.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I don't quite understand these terms...

I think I'm pretty good at cognitive empathy. I don't really have a lot of experience dealing with people, so I don't have a lot of real life practice, but I've taken some online tests and come out pretty much on the same level as NTs.

As for feeling other people's emotions, I don't know. Honestly, if they're upset or anxious, then I get anxious too. If they're sad, then I feel awkward because I don't know how to fix it. And if they're happy, everything is fine.

I am pretty naïve though, and it once cost me almost all of my Pokémon cards. And if people treat me nice, I'm nice back, even if they have a history of being mean to me. Not because I'm super forgiving or anything, it just doesn't occur to me to act otherwise.

I resonate with being nice as it doesn’t occur to me to act otherwise, then I feel resentful.
You feel others feelings I can tell from your post.

 

[Gift2humanity]

Well I think it's often a combination of things that add up to the way a person is, different aspects of personality, upbringing, parental influences, neurology, intellect, etc. And what one then does to address issues, like self development, trainings and therapy.

I think the idea that reading fiction helps children predict real life outcomes and make links cognitively has something in it, but probably it doesn't go much beyond childhood, as an aid to understanding life. But it may get processes linked up or fire development I suppose, if that's how the brain works?

I believe fiction helps kids as they go characters successes and failures on a visceral level, so they don’t have to experience unnecessary risks, problems, confrontations in real al life as they have already experienced them in books.

 

[Wolfsage]

Blind. Can't read people at all.

 

[Gift2humanity]

I would saying growing up in a very manipulative home and having to sometimes deal with manipulative people due to the nature of my job gave me a certain degree of cognitive empathy. For me, its based on observing patterns of behavior and intuition. I don't know that this is especially helpful but, if people try to manipulate you enough you develop strategies to deal with it. When I was young this meant suppressing my emotions to an extreme. You can't manipulate my feelings if I don't feel them. This made other things very difficult of course but I care a great deal about my autonomy. Sacrifices just had to be made. As I aged I got better at identifying and dealing with manipulative behavior, at least if it involved matters I cared about. I pick my battles because I'm not ever going to be in a position where I can deal with all the manipulation that occurs. Most of its fairly harmless anyway. Deal with the manipulations that you know will cause harm to you and others and ignore the rest.

It sounds as if you read a lot of fiction, am I right?
I grew up in a manipulative household and met a lot of manipulative people but because I did not mean I was actually manipulated and did not learn how to identify and deal with it. I did not read fiction

 

[Gift2humanity]

Blind. Can't read people at all.

I knew a blind girl, her other senses developed to compensate.
From her wise and mature personality, she may have read a lot of Braille fiction.

 

[Aspychata]

Sadly , l wish to believe the best of people but l now realized that that is a skewed view and is totally useless. But l do find that my customers welcome my authenticity in their life,and l do feel validated in my lifetime.

 

[Wolfsage]

Sadly , l wish to believe the best of people but l now realized that that is a skewed view and is totally useless. But l do find that my customers welcome my authenticity in their life,and l do feel validated in my lifetime.

I know I would. Struggling with that beleif myself.

 

[Wolfsage]

I knew a blind girl, her other senses developed to compensate.
From her wise and mature personality, she may have read a lot of Braille fiction.

Blind in that I can't read people at all. Sorry for not being clear. I read a lot of Sherlock Holmes fiction.