Black and White Thinking

[Aspychata]

I never know how quite to respond to very rigid thinking without offending said other. I can explain that there are other schools of thought. Not sure really if its even my business to bring it up.

Has anybody else come up with ways to discuss issues in a non-threatening manner that doesn't upset this type of thinker?

 

[Magna]

I'm not sure, but I do think that there's a prevailing social viewpoint that seems to be gained popular acceptance that "black and white" thinking is always a negative, always a shortcoming. It's true that life in general/overall is full of "grey areas". Life and human interaction is complex and isn't always just one way or another. In a lot of things however, it is. In the black and white aspects of life it's a detriment when a person or people get stuck in a grey quagmire, belaboring points, etc. A good way to look at it: If black and white thinking was always bad (it's not), wouldn't thinking that way about it be...black and white thinking?

This is a ridiculous example but if a hungry lion was charging at two people with the intent on eating both of them the people should either take immediate evasive action or...likely die. Black or white. If the people stood there debating or insisting that the situation is more nuanced, they'd be met and justifiably so, with a very "grey" death.

I contend that if a person is literally so rigid in their "black and white" thinking in their lives overall (ie related to most everything) and they absolutely refuse to ponder the possibility of "shades of grey", that would be a problem. I've personally never met someone who was literally that rigid across the board.

Like many autistic people, I do tend toward "black and white" thinking admittedly to the point at times where I don't think of/can't see the "grey" possibilities in a situation. However, when someone points out a logical "grey" reason, I may initially reject the notion but I will also think about it, being a contemplative person in general. In short, I'm usually not beyond learning new things and instead being open to new perspectives. There have been other times where I've "cut through the grey quagmire" others can get stuck in and ultimately show them that a particular issue or situation is actually a "black and white" situation.

 

[Sasha22]

I'm not sure, but I do think that there's a prevailing social viewpoint that seems to be gained popular acceptance that "black and white" thinking is always a negative, always a shortcoming. It's true that life in general/overall is full of "grey areas". Life and human interaction is complex and isn't always just one way or another. In a lot of things however, it is. In the black and white aspects of life it's a detriment when a person or people get stuck in a grey quagmire, belaboring points, etc. A good way to look at it: If black and white thinking was always bad (it's not), wouldn't thinking that way about it be...black and white thinking?

This is a ridiculous example but if a hungry lion was charging at two people with the intent on eating both of them the people should either take immediate evasive action or...likely die. Black or white. If the people stood there debating or insisting that the situation is more nuanced, they'd be met and justifiably so, with a very "grey" death.

I contend that if a person is literally so rigid in their "black and white" thinking in their lives overall (ie related to most everything) and they absolutely refuse to ponder the possibility of "shades of grey", that would be a problem. I've personally never met someone who was literally that rigid across the board.

I agree that "greyism" is a problem. A lot of the time, it seems to me that grey areas do tend toward dark grey or light grey, so toward black or white, and if you are to take action you might have to arbitrate quickly between black and white (even if you know that grey exists). Agreed that indecisive grey usually doesn't take us very far.

In the case of particularly rigid thinking, sometimes there's no other option than to either not respond, or to respond regardless of the reaction. Not sure you can have it all

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I never know how quite to respond to very rigid thinking without offending said other. I can explain that there are other schools of thought. Not sure really if its even my business to bring it up.

Has anybody else come up with ways to discuss issues in a non-threatening manner that doesn't upset this type of thinker?

Black and White thinking (and feeling) is part of autism. There are not a single autists who is not affected by this one way or another.

The way I have worked with my father and with myself is to force greys. Lets illustrate it with an example:

Lets say that when I was a kid, I met another kid at the shool and liked him. As I was affected by B&W thinking I did not considered him a classmate, but a SUPER GOOD FRIEND!!

Why? Because I lacked the intermediate categories that go from HATED ENEMY to SUPER GOOD FRIEND. There was no "Classmate" category, no "guy who gave me good first impression" category, no other category.

This is something that happens to all human kids, but as NT kids grow they create all kind of intermediate categories with all the correspondent body languages, reactions, what to share, social rules, etc... Autists dont. Some autists will create some of the many possible categories, but will never achieve the flexibility NT adults have to jump from one category to other.

So the way to combat B&W thinking is to create those categories in a purposed artificial way. So I need to create the "classmate" category and learn what are their characteristics, social rules, etc. The same with the "coworker", "boss", "teacher"... Then add labels like "religious person", "sensitive", "rigid" to know what topics to avoid or how to better adapt myself to them.

So once I have done that, my thinking is no longer SO black and white as it was. It is more flexible now. On that topic.

For every topic there is "grey" to build to fill the gap between black and white. So to help another person, you can guide them to create new categories that are in the grey zone. To decide how would it be appropiate to behave in that "not white/not black" situation.

Im not sure if I could explain myself, let me know if I missed something.

 

[Aspychata]

Sometimes at this forum, black and white thinkers believe they are right and just when things are in different contexts, and they are unable to see that gray/context because they are trapped with rigid thinking. But it crosses the line when they police others who don't hold their personal opinions. The black white prevents them from even entertaining other thoughts or opinions.

 

[Aspychata]

I may disagree with other members, but l try to understand their view point. Like l do try to understand the black/white thinking because all view points are valid. But sometimes accepting other view points seems to be a stumbling block for us on the spectrum.

 

[Rodafina]

It seems like a private message might be a more efficient way to manage these feelings you are having.

 

[Jordy]

Black and white thinking isn't an autism thing..

 

[Jordy]

For every topic there is "grey" to build to fill the gap between black and white. So to help another person, you can guide them to create new categories that are in the grey zone. To decide how would it be appropiate to behave in that "not white/not black" situation.

Don't know what you mean with "topic", but there are plenty of things that are binary.

 

[Aspychata]

I struggle accepting other view points too. That's why l opened up this discussion, l also need to know how to explain to others in a non-threatening manner that considering other viewpoints is healthy, but l don't know the right words to convey this.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

l also need to know how to explain to others in a non-threatening manner that considering other viewpoints is healthy, but l don't know the right words to convey this.

Why do you need to change that person?

Don't know what you mean with "topic", but there are plenty of things that are binary.

You asked me not to interact with you some days ago. Have you changed your mind?

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Black and white thinking isn't an autism thing..

There are lots of studies (and books) on the topic of black and white thinking as an autism thing. Im sure you can search it if you are interested in learning.

Here is an article that explains the same I posted in a better way and without english mistakes:

No Room For Gray Here - Black & White Thinking and Autism - Psychological and Educational Consulting

In honor of National Autism Month, we are looking to help define and give an understanding of a thinking pattern used by children, adolescents and adults with Autism. As a caregiver, friend, teacher or therapist, black and white thinking can sometimes feel intentional or manipulative, especially...

www.psychedconsult.com

 

[Aspychata]

@Atrapa Almas
I believe l am asking them to be more open perhaps, but l appreciate you asking this, it gets my small little brain moving along. Lol

 

[Rodafina]

If you are bothered by a specific member the best course of action is to address it in a private message. Or you could talk to a moderator.

Directness is efficient. Innuendos are confusing and open to misinterpretation.

 

[Aspychata]

@Rodafina
It's good for me to ask, as l do fall into B/W thinking with certain issues . So it's important for me to hear other people's ideas, maybe learn something new.

 

[Rodafina]

@Rodafina
It's good for me to ask, as l do fall into B/W thinking with certain issues . So it's important for me to hear other people's ideas, maybe learn something new.

Well, it feels very much relevant to our recent interaction on another thread. This feels like a passive aggressive attempt to figure out my behavior. I did not want to say this in public, but clearly you are not interested in sending a private message. If you would like further information about how much I value peoples’ differing opinions and when I have hard lines in what I think, then you can private message me. If you would like to pretend that this has nothing to do with me, then at least I have said my peace to the forum folk. I will be clear in letting you know that it very much sounds like I am this black and white thinker that you are discussing. I kindly request that we take this to a private message to resolve any remaining issues that you have with my comments.

 

[Aspychata]

I have never said anything. You are free to interpret however you wish. I am learning to ask questions to understand if my reasoning is wrong. I have learned to be more accepting of other views. I don't wish to antagonize or continue something l have clearly moved on from. I love talking about black and white thinking. I really really wish there were more posts on it. But it doesn't seem to be discussed alot, so l am curious why, because it does happen for me. Tonite in my vehicle, l switched into b&W thinking when a vehicle drove up to my car so close l couldn't open my door. My thinking was, l feel threatened, and l am leaving this situation. I believe the person was trying to speak to me. I didn't feel comfortable. Was this b&w thinking?

 

[LadyS]

I guess I'm in the minority -- I love the grey. I try to live in the grey. It's more comforting to me than B&W. But it's a very lonely place since most people, not just autistics, prefer B&W. It's more comforting to them and I understand. Grey is acknowledging that life is not simple and orderly and no one likes that. So much of the world functions on B&W. Just the way it is in order to move forward collectively I suppose. And it makes sense to me.

The thing about trying to explain the 'grey' is that it's not just you that has to communicate in a way that is easily considered, the other person also has to have an open mind on that particular topic and also capacity to accept the grey idea, which is not easy. And some can reject these ideas violently and aggressively in order to cling on to the binary ...our brains still have binary instincts as a means of survival as mentioned above, a categorizing function in order to make neat and tidy worlds for ourselves:

Fight or flight: Eat or be eaten. All about survival
Us vs them: Tribalism. once primitive human decided that it's safer in groups than being isolated.
Right vs Wrong: a tool that was created to promote social order (still being morally debated today)

So to answer your question: there isn't a straightforward answer (ahem grey). Depends on who is on the receiving end of the debate. For some, I use examples: For example, many years ago autism fell into the BW trap.. but now we know it's a spectrum. It's grey. You can't lump us all together and say we're all the same. Nor can you do the same with NTs. And now gender, we know it's no longer a B&W area. APPLY that concept to other things. Even right vs wrong: opinions vary on this. Morality is all full of grey areas. Because it's all based on opinions. Sure you can think your opinion is right but doesn't make it more valid than the next person's.

Tolerance is all gray. It forces you to step out of the Us vs Them mentality and accept that another person's reality is not your own and that they should be allowed to continue to live and think their way, same as you.

Empathy is all gray. You can empathize with a person even if you don't agree with them, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I can empathize with a person who committed a terrible crime if I stepped back and considered their background, maybe they had untold crimes committed against them, has mental issues because of it and is lashing out. Do I agree committing a crime was justified? No. But can I empathize more for this person as opposed to someone who simply did it just for selfish personal gain? Maybe? Or maybe the person who did it for selfish reasons did it because it's what they were taught and all they know (their parents did it therefore it's a learned behavior).

Now others would say, "my parents did some very bad things to me but that doesn't mean I followed their lead". Well of course you didn't, because you are NOT that other person. You don't have the same genes, same personality, same weaknesses, same decision-making skills, same temperament, etc. Does that make you morally superior? Debatable.
Gray.

I believe there was another post recently about how we might all find out one day that there's no such thing as genetic free will. We each are all biologically pre-programmed to think and feel based on our unique set of genes and have little control of it. Yet again, another grey area that's going to be hard to grapple with if that's true.

As you can see it's just entering an endless rabbit hole which destroys the orderly world we want it to be (which is also ironic because autism is still considered a disorder isn't it? We are literal greys in the NT world --they collectively still have to figure out "what to do with us"). That's why I think it's important to embrace the grey cuz we know what it's like to live in it.

 

[Au Naturel]

I never know how quite to respond to very rigid thinking without offending said other. I can explain that there are other schools of thought. Not sure really if its even my business to bring it up.

Has anybody else come up with ways to discuss issues in a non-threatening manner that doesn't upset this type of thinker?

I have never successfully found a way to discuss controversial issues nonthreateningly with someone who disagrees as a matter of faith or has built their life upon a priori assumptions for which I see no evidence. The notion that you disagree with what they hold fundamental - or even that you're willing to be the devil's advocate - is inherently threatening. Challenging one detail of the structure threatens the entire structure.

And you need to be silenced.

 

[Aspychata]

@LadyS

Think your answer was so poignantly explained. This is where l trip up, am l to strive for grey or should l keep it clutter free and strive b&w.