Autism Traits Or Individual Character Traits?

[Captain Caveman]

How does one separate them as things I once assumed to be my unique character I was surprized to find them to be autism traits. BUT what is me? What parts are me?

 

[Jumpinbare]

I wondered the same thing. I have learned things by reading other people's posts as well as some of the books available on autism.

 

[Tired]

Why exactly do you want to separate autism traits from, as you call it, "your unique character" traits? What do you think you'll gain by doing that?

 

[The Pandector]

If someone asked, ‘what part of you is unique, and what part of you is simply human?’ you would have about the same chance of finding an answer.

The autism in you is you. (The lovely lady who plays with inflatable cats taught me that last month.) Trying to separate which part of you is you from which part of you is not you seems like contemplating the sound of one hand clapping.

 

[Rodafina]

@Captain Caveman

I’m not sure this way of thinking will be helpful to understanding yourself. You are just you, with all the different traits you have noticed. Each of us still has a unique response to the ways in which autism affects our lives. Some of your traits may be familiar to other autistic people, but you are still a unique being and everything about you, including autism, makes you who you are.

 

[marc_101]

It's an artificial distinction. You can't separate them. Each trait is expressed in different ways in different people. It can be counterintuitive, but think of a any concrete trait you have. It's yours in a unique way. Or think about anything, say, liking food. Most humans like food, but you have your unique way of liking food even if you could argue that many other people like similar food. It's still part of you. It's not as if you had appropriated other people's tastes.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Thats Why I do not to get diagnosed and fixed.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

How does one separate them as things I once assumed to be my unique character I was surprized to find them to be autism traits. BUT what is me? What parts are me?

The answer is "All those parts are you."

One can look at the DSM and/or have a psychologist identify specific autistic traits one has, but even so, these will vary. There is likely more neurodiversity within the autistic community than within the neurotypical community. There are all the primary genetic, anatomical, and physiological aspects that are all present within autistic individuals, but vary highly, then all the secondary psychological and cognitive traits associated with all of that, then there are all the psychiatric and learned behaviors and cognitive biases that are a result of our life experiences and how we internalized them. I might suggest here that there are 3 layers, the primary, secondary, and tertiary layers, all of which are highly variable and make us all unique, but the first two layers are more the autism.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I was a bit taken aback when I saw the results of my assessment as they were deeper into the autism side than I expected! I initially thought I was boarderline, as I had gone through life without being assessed. Always was different from most and was excluded for being so, so I learned to keep myself to myself which is what one does when in this situation so one can avoid being picked on or bullied.

But being much further onto the spectrum than one thought is an eyeopener! I am somewhat embarissed by this because those who are not on the spectrum themselves would not understand. I can't explain myself very well, as I go off on tangent after tangent and never reach the point, and besides that, putting inner feelings into thoughts is not that easy! And yet, very few people apart from those who know they are on the spectrum themselves know much about autism, as the natural thoughts of people (Including those who themselves are on the spectrum who for years didn't know) stem around the worst case senarios they see on the news. Example of this is a lady schoolteacher who didn't teach me, but when in conversation my Mum.mentioned I was on the list to be assessed said to me "You can't be autistic. You are not in a wheelchair!"

So most of us who spent most of our lives undiagnosed have really gone through some tough times but not been able to realize why!
I remember thinking to myself when failing at certain subjects at school where the teachers themselves knew I was above average intelligence and I knew that too, but for me everything was such an effort to be rewarded with the words "Must try harder" when I jolly well knew I did not have any harder left to give! Yet those who I knew were not blessed with much intelligence were doing the same lessons and getting better results and I knew they were not even trying! (Likewize in other subjects the opposite was the case where I was getting good results and they were not, but what was strange was their results were constant and did not vary too much, and mine were even up and down to the extremes in the same subject from one exam to the other!

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Looks similar to my schooling in elementary school I was still accepted by the advanced program in high school 5 years including grade thirteen all math and science courses. Even got accepted in university but decided to go to college instead. They even informed me that my family was the brightest the school has ever seen. On a math test
I would study a bit have a barely passing mark then study get a mark in the mid eighties. My issue was not wanting to study. Even on great courses no issue following the most complex subjects. just watching to fool around. Too late to effect my life. Multivariable calculus, Octonions, easy to follow.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I was a bit taken aback when I saw the results of my assessment as they were deeper into the autism side than I expected! I initially thought I was boarderline, as I had gone through life without being assessed. Always was different from most and was excluded for being so, so I learned to keep myself to myself which is what one does when in this situation so one can avoid being picked on or bullied.

But being much further onto the spectrum than one thought is an eyeopener! I am somewhat embarissed by this because those who are not on the spectrum themselves would not understand. I can't explain myself very well, as I go off on tangent after tangent and never reach the point, and besides that, putting inner feelings into thoughts is not that easy! And yet, very few people apart from those who know they are on the spectrum themselves know much about autism, as the natural thoughts of people (Including those who themselves are on the spectrum who for years didn't know) stem around the worst case senarios they see on the news. Example of this is a lady schoolteacher who didn't teach me, but when in conversation my Mum.mentioned I was on the list to be assessed said to me "You can't be autistic. You are not in a wheelchair!"

So most of us who spent most of our lives undiagnosed have really gone through some tough times but not been able to realize why!
I remember thinking to myself when failing at certain subjects at school where the teachers themselves knew I was above average intelligence and I knew that too, but for me everything was such an effort to be rewarded with the words "Must try harder" when I jolly well knew I did not have any harder left to give! Yet those who I knew were not blessed with much intelligence were doing the same lessons and getting better results and I knew they were not even trying! (Likewize in other subjects the opposite was the case where I was getting good results and they were not, but what was strange was their results were constant and did not vary too much, and mine were even up and down to the extremes in the same subject from one exam to the other!

Sort of my experience, as well. My wife was not a believer initially and even after a few months after my diagnosis, she said to me that I wasn't THAT autistic. Of course, all my test results put me on the rather extreme end of the autism spectrum. All I can figure is that when most people think of autism, they want to imagine a severely debilitated child, not an adult, let alone one that is of normal to high intelligence. I am of the mind, the more intelligent one is, the more likely that we find ways to adapt and overcome, as well as self-consciously hide our autistic traits. I don't know, I mean, I am very conscious of my autistic traits and it's very obvious to me, but I don't think others around me are so perceptive nor can put my behaviors into an autism context.

My wife has turned around in her thinking, but it took a long time to settle into her mind.

 

[Au Naturel]

How does one separate them as things I once assumed to be my unique character I was surprized to find them to be autism traits. BUT what is me? What parts are me?

No single trait is unique to autism - or NOT autism. Autism is a collection of traits that frequently appear together. Not all autistic people have identical collections. If you have met one autistic person, you have met one autistic person. the next may be different.

All the traits you have, autistic and otherwise, are you.

 

[Misty Avich]

ASD is just a small part of me and I know that if I was to be cured it probably wouldn't change me much. It'd just leave me with the anxiety and ADHD, which are more of what makes up who I am. But despite ASD only being a small part of me it's still inconvenient enough and I wish I didn't have it. I think it's unfair that there are medications for anxiety and ADHD but not for autism. It's like autism is this incurable disease that we just have to live with. Admittedly I could live without the anxiety but I feel that the ADHD makes me who I am and kind of masks the ASD. So that is why I refuse to take ADHD medication.

 

[Captain Caveman]

You made me think "What would I be like if autism was taken out of me?"
BUT, as autism is caused by brain connections that do not connect (And during brain development, the growth enlarges other areas to compensate) I have to ask what I would be like if my brain did connect... But how can I describe this?

What the best thing to think about is the noticable negatives, and think "If I did not have those negatives, it would be like that"...

BUT it is far more complicated than that, as I do have some positives that I would not likely have had my brain not compensated by growing other areas instead (These can be negatives as well but for me, I do have (Or did have as wifi made me deaf to it) the ability to hear very high pitched sounds like bats and dog whistles, and mobile phones and wifi sounds. Electrical gadget sounds which few pwople seemed to be able to hear.
Wifi was bad so I used to turn it off at night. Router was in the kitchen downstairs but I could hear it loud! (Very loud!)
But my youngest brother came back to live and insisted it stayed on. After many sleepless nights which esculated into burnout/breakdown and me having to quit my job, I did eventually become deaf to wifi, BUT it was really LOUD! (Bats can vary but they are not normally loud in volume.
BUT dog whistles! I was walking and this man with a dog whistle was coming my way towards his dog, and right near my ear he blew it, and it jolly well hurt! I instinctively put my hands over my ears and the man really became angry at me. I said "I can hear it" and he really told me off saying "Only dogs can hear it".
Well the way he was blowing it so loud as his dog was ignoring it, I reacon his dog had become deaf to it to be honest! If he only knew how loud he was blowing it, he would have been more sensible in his approach!)

Anyway... Once had another unusual ability which I discovered when I was sent for testing after I applied for a job on the railway, and they sent me for a colour blind test.
The guy doing it was way into his 70's which was unusual as most people would have retired long before that...
Now he sat me down and brought out this big book. He said I had to find the letters or numbers on each of the pages in the book. I saw it as a challenge and did not know how those books worked.
I started finding these characters page at a time, and some pages I had to shift my eyes out of focus to find them which hurts! But I found them.
He seemed concerned and he went to stop me half way through the book, but as I was enjoying myself I had already gone onto the next page and answered that. He seemed to be takenback somehow and said "Carry on!" so I did.
I eventually got to the back of the book having answered every single one.

He said "I don't know what to say. I have been doing this for fifty years and I have tested thousands of people... Even millions! And I have never come across anyone who has answered the whole book correctly as you have done. How did you do it?" ( I mentioned shifting my eyes out of focus to see some of them).
"Can you come with me abroad to show others what you can do as I want to show you to the top people in lectures around the world" (I" declined as it was my dream to get the railway job and I would be scared to go away from home. Working trains made me homesick enough!... (Prosopragnosia tends to make one feel homesick even if one is just five or ten miles away!))
He then explained that when he went to stop me, he thought I had one of the worst cases of colour blindness he had ever seen. (At first before he said all this, he asked me if I was an eye specialist and knew the book. (I said "No"). He asked me if I have ever seen the book before and I said "No" but thinking back to when I was about six someone did come to the school and just had us quickly look at just a few pages as he had the whole school to get through, and I wasn't given time to really stare at the pictures so I could shift my eyes out of focus. I had forgotton about that occasion!)
But he then said "I don't know if I should pass you or not. Even I cant see many of the characters in the book and I have been doing it for years!
He then went quiet and thought for a while and then said "Well as you can see every character in the part of the book designed for those who are not colour blind to see, even though you can also see all the others, you can't be colour blind, as colour blind people will not be able to see the characters in the colours they are colour blind in, and you can... So you can't be colour blind, or you would not be able to see the characters in that half of the book.
I then was allowed the job on the railway!
Haha! Took him a while to reason if I was colourblind or not which I thought was funny!
I found it hard to believe that he had not come across anyone else who could do that as I was as shocked as he was when he said that!

I didn't knowI was on the spectrum in those days though.
I used to amuse myself shifting my eyes out of focus when bored as I would be able to see little germy things swimming like one sees when looking through powerful microscopes. Not sure what they were. Hurts to do it and makes me feel inwardly "Yuck" so I rarely do it.

But yes! What would I be if I wasn't autistic. Well. I would not be able to do those things.
While I would not have prosopragnosia, I would also not see the patterns that I see to compensate for that.
When I worked trains as a conductor (Guard... The one in charge of train safety and sells the tickets and opens and closes doors etc. I was NOT the driver. The other guy! (America calls the driver the conductor I think? Different here in the UK).
The job meant I had to repeatedly go down trains and find out where the new people got on the train... I remembered the patterns of where people were sitting to do that. I was not looking at people faces. Could have up to 100 people or more in each coach of the train (Though some would be standing to get that full as most trains had 70 ish seats). I did get it wrong a few times when people swapped seats and I had not seen it. But I saw visual patterns.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Wifi was bad so I used to turn it off at night. Router was in the kitchen downstairs but I could hear it loud! (Very loud!)
But my youngest brother came back to live and insisted it stayed on. After many sleepless nights which esculated into burnout/breakdown and me having to quit my job, I did eventually become deaf to wifi, BUT it was really LOUD! (Bats can vary but they are not normally loud in volume.

Most likely the router had an internal component vibrating in the ultrasonic range. The actual wifi signal is electromagnetic rather than sound, and is in the microwave region waayy above any kind of audio or ultrasonic sound.

(Prosopragnosia tends to make one feel homesick even if one is just five or ten miles away!))

I am curious how prosopragnosia causes homesickness. I have difficulty recognizing faces unless they have unusual features, and I have failed to recognize coworkers because I am seeing them in the wrong setting, like Wal-Mart or a gas station instead of at work. I don't understand the mechanism of poor facial recognition leading to homesickness. (But I don't understand a lot of "people" things.)

I used to amuse myself shifting my eyes out of focus when bored as I would be able to see little germy things swimming like one sees when looking through powerful microscopes. Not sure what they were. Hurts to do it and makes me feel inwardly "Yuck" so I rarely do it.

Those are called "floaters" by eye doctors. Usually they are dead cells that have become detached from the eye lining, and have not been broken down yet. Thjey just sort of drift around in the fluid of the eye between the lens and the retina.

When I worked trains as a conductor (Guard... The one in charge of train safety and sells the tickets and opens and closes doors etc. I was NOT the driver. The other guy! (America calls the driver the conductor I think? Different here in the UK).

In the US, the train driver is called the Engineer.

 

[DrBadStrings]

How does one separate them as things I once assumed to be my unique character I was surprized to find them to be autism traits. BUT what is me? What parts are me?

I don't really see the need to separate them. I mean just because certain things are common traits of autism doesn't make them any less traits that make you you. The combination of different traits you have, some common among autistics, some not at all are what give you your unique character. It's all you buddy. The traits that make you autistic, and all the other traits, it's all uniquely you. No other being past, present, or future, will ever have the same combination of traits that you currently do.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Prosopragnosia and homesickness...

OK. Picture this. You can't recognize faces. (Or can't recognise some people faces, and one does not know when faceblindness "Kicks in" or not, and often it will be according to where one is and the situation one is in, as to recognizing them as those of us with faceblindness often look for other clues to identify people).
But lets suppose one is around four or five years old or even six, and one has faceblindness. At home it is not a problem. At home one visually picks out Mum and Dad and brothers and sisters because they have other differences such as length of hair and height, or smell etc. You also know their clothes.

Now go to school. One is fine holding ones mothers hand on the way to school. One knows Mum and Mum wants you to hold her hand because of the busy road.
One gets into school and Mum goes. One becomes very quiet and just watches the other kids. One does not take part. (This was me for the first year or two in school). One just stands there watching and hoping to learn and pick up on visual or audiable clues on who each one is. Yet at home, if anyone comes to visit, the visitors are easy to pick out who they are. Not so in school! When school ends one panics because one is not sure which parent is which. (I was fortunate in that my Mum never wore make-up and was also plump (She eats about a third of what I do and she can gain weight! I have known her not to eat for a month and a half and put on weight! Artificial sweetners in lemonade made her massively swell up. We both have to watch any form of artificial sweetners in our food).
But one waits until the other kids have gone so that ones Mum (Who also has facdblindness) can tell who each other is! (If one or the other can pick out something unique so can identify each other it is ok).
A very common trait of prosopragnosia when young is a child who is really quiet, hardly speaks and spends their whole time just watching... Be aware that the majority of those with prosopragnosia (I think it was 83%?) are diangnosed as being on the spectrum. The rest are likely to be on the spectrum who have not yet been assessed, or somewhere close to being on the spectrum. an autistic child who goes dead quiet and insecure in school, but is bold and confident at home and talks, shouts and plays like any other kid while at home, is almost certainly faceblind as well. Autistic kids who are talkative and confident are not faceblind. (I unknowingly (Until later) grew up in school with such an autistic kid. (His Mum never told him he was as she feared knowing would hold him back. She confided in my Mum when we became friends later in that primary school. The first few years he bullied me. Now he has always had an exceptual ability to pick out individual people from.over a mile away! As an adult, whenever he sees me, he comes to me. I only realize it is him when he comes close. (He is very tall and thin and talks in an unique way by the way he says words). He is kind of at the opposite end of the spectrum to me. (Don't think he knows I am on the spectrum as have not seen him for a while. I don't even know if he knkws he is on the spectrum. He was diagnosed when he was young which was rare in those days).

Now go into a worse situation than school for someone with faceblindness. Go into the supermarket (Shopping mall) or go in a busy pedestrianized area of town where one does not live in a town, and suddenly one not only has a mass of faces, but if one lets go of one of ones parents hands, there is no way that if one visually lost sight of them, one would know how to find them again! At the supermarket my Mum would send me to get something and I would fall to pieces because I would have to go out of view from where she was and try and find her again! I put my hand in all sorts of other potential Mums hands before I found the right one which was frightening!

Prosopragnosia (Faceblindness) is something we knew my Mum had, but I didn't realize I had (Despite all the very obvious clues!) until I was between 16 and 18 when I was failing at college. I just could not work it out. I would hand in my work to be marked on one of the engineering subjects (Which were all mathematical based) and sometimes I would get reasonable marks, and other times I would get 0 marks. How could I possibly get zero marks? I must have had at least one right! I couldn't work out what was going on until the second year of that general engineering course where one lecturer came in to talk to another lecturer and I realized there had been two of them! To me it had been the same person as I had "Grouped" them. (I call it grouping, when I can know whole groups of people who to me look the same and I think it is the one person. My Mum has it worse, as she can't tell the difference between one actor on TV and another when one actors white and the other is black and I have to tell her when watching TV "Mum. Its the black one" or "Mum, its the white one" for her to make sense of the film. Actually, films where all the guys wear suits can be a problem when one may not pick out who is the good guy or the bad guy in a fight! Is sort of like watching snooker on an old black and white TV where one is trying to work out what is going on, but with people instead of balls!)

Anyway! The main trait of prosopragnosia in a child is they are their usual noisy selves at home, but dead quiet and clingy to their parents when not at home.

So why have I been homesick when not at home? Homesick every day in school. Homesick in college which was a 6 or 7 mile bike ride away. Homesick whever I worked.
The armed forces really wanted me to join when I was in college as to them, be it the airforce, army or navy, I was the perfect potential candidate to join as I was intelligent and had an engineering type of thinking mind. BUT two reasons why I could not as it would have been daily torture for me.
1. Prosopragnosia and the constant feeling of homesickness due to it being a trait of the condition (Home is familiar where I can relax from faceblind symptoms so I don't have to mentally work overtime working out who is who!).
2. I jump inside and fall to pieces when I hear sudden loud noises like being suddenly shouted at, and with that, if someone swears, it takes me longer to process what has been said as my mind dwells on the swear words and not the actual instructions being said!

It is NOT that I would not be useful to any of the forces. It is because the whole enviroment would be torture!
Put me on my own in the right circumstances in a quiet enviroment and I can do my stuff and be good at it too!

 

[Jumpinbare]

Prosopragnosia and homesickness...

OK. Picture this. You can't recognize faces. (Or can't recognise some people faces, and one does not know when faceblindness "Kicks in" or not, and often it will be according to where one is and the situation one is in, as to recognizing them as those of us with faceblindness often look for other clues to identify people).
But lets suppose one is around four or five years old or even six, and one has faceblindness. At home it is not a problem. At home one visually picks out Mum and Dad and brothers and sisters because they have other differences such as length of hair and height, or smell etc. You also know their clothes.

Now go to school. One is fine holding ones mothers hand on the way to school. One knows Mum and Mum wants you to hold her hand because of the busy road.
One gets into school and Mum goes. One becomes very quiet and just watches the other kids. One does not take part. (This was me for the first year or two in school). One just stands there watching and hoping to learn and pick up on visual or audiable clues on who each one is. Yet at home, if anyone comes to visit, the visitors are easy to pick out who they are. Not so in school! When school ends one panics because one is not sure which parent is which. (I was fortunate in that my Mum never wore make-up and was also plump (She eats about a third of what I do and she can gain weight! I have known her not to eat for a month and a half and put on weight! Artificial sweetners in lemonade made her massively swell up. We both have to watch any form of artificial sweetners in our food).
But one waits until the other kids have gone so that ones Mum (Who also has facdblindness) can tell who each other is! (If one or the other can pick out something unique so can identify each other it is ok).
A very common trait of prosopragnosia when young is a child who is really quiet, hardly speaks and spends their whole time just watching... Be aware that the majority of those with prosopragnosia (I think it was 83%?) are diangnosed as being on the spectrum. The rest are likely to be on the spectrum who have not yet been assessed, or somewhere close to being on the spectrum. an autistic child who goes dead quiet and insecure in school, but is bold and confident at home and talks, shouts and plays like any other kid while at home, is almost certainly faceblind as well. Autistic kids who are talkative and confident are not faceblind. (I unknowingly (Until later) grew up in school with such an autistic kid. (His Mum never told him he was as she feared knowing would hold him back. She confided in my Mum when we became friends later in that primary school. The first few years he bullied me. Now he has always had an exceptual ability to pick out individual people from.over a mile away! As an adult, whenever he sees me, he comes to me. I only realize it is him when he comes close. (He is very tall and thin and talks in an unique way by the way he says words). He is kind of at the opposite end of the spectrum to me. (Don't think he knows I am on the spectrum as have not seen him for a while. I don't even know if he knkws he is on the spectrum. He was diagnosed when he was young which was rare in those days).

Now go into a worse situation than school for someone with faceblindness. Go into the supermarket (Shopping mall) or go in a busy pedestrianized area of town where one does not live in a town, and suddenly one not only has a mass of faces, but if one lets go of one of ones parents hands, there is no way that if one visually lost sight of them, one would know how to find them again! At the supermarket my Mum would send me to get something and I would fall to pieces because I would have to go out of view from where she was and try and find her again! I put my hand in all sorts of other potential Mums hands before I found the right one which was frightening!

Prosopragnosia (Faceblindness) is something we knew my Mum had, but I didn't realize I had (Despite all the very obvious clues!) until I was between 16 and 18 when I was failing at college. I just could not work it out. I would hand in my work to be marked on one of the engineering subjects (Which were all mathematical based) and sometimes I would get reasonable marks, and other times I would get 0 marks. How could I possibly get zero marks? I must have had at least one right! I couldn't work out what was going on until the second year of that general engineering course where one lecturer came in to talk to another lecturer and I realized there had been two of them! To me it had been the same person as I had "Grouped" them. (I call it grouping, when I can know whole groups of people who to me look the same and I think it is the one person. My Mum has it worse, as she can't tell the difference between one actor on TV and another when one actors white and the other is black and I have to tell her when watching TV "Mum. Its the black one" or "Mum, its the white one" for her to make sense of the film. Actually, films where all the guys wear suits can be a problem when one may not pick out who is the good guy or the bad guy in a fight! Is sort of like watching snooker on an old black and white TV where one is trying to work out what is going on, but with people instead of balls!)

Anyway! The main trait of prosopragnosia in a child is they are their usual noisy selves at home, but dead quiet and clingy to their parents when not at home.

So why have I been homesick when not at home? Homesick every day in school. Homesick in college which was a 6 or 7 mile bike ride away. Homesick whever I worked.
The armed forces really wanted me to join when I was in college as to them, be it the airforce, army or navy, I was the perfect potential candidate to join as I was intelligent and had an engineering type of thinking mind. BUT two reasons why I could not as it would have been daily torture for me.
1. Prosopragnosia and the constant feeling of homesickness due to it being a trait of the condition (Home is familiar where I can relax from faceblind symptoms so I don't have to mentally work overtime working out who is who!).
2. I jump inside and fall to pieces when I hear sudden loud noises like being suddenly shouted at, and with that, if someone swears, it takes me longer to process what has been said as my mind dwells on the swear words and not the actual instructions being said!

It is NOT that I would not be useful to any of the forces. It is because the whole enviroment would be torture!
Put me on my own in the right circumstances in a quiet enviroment and I can do my stuff and be good at it too!

That makes sense logically from your explanation. I guess I didn't make the connection because I have never experienced homesickness. The first time I was away from home without my family for more than a day, was a week long church camp when I was maybe 9. I totally enjoyed the natural settings, and being there "on my own" seemed like an adventure. I assumed my parents and siblings were fine or I would have been contacted.

 

[Au Naturel]

You don't have a fixed existence. You are what you are at the moment.

Any trait found in an autistic person can also be found in a neurotypical if you look at enough NTs. Even combinations of traits. Autism is a syndrome, which means you have enough of a specific collection of traits at an adequate level to be diagnosed as autistic.

Don't sweat the label.