Aspergers, Autism, and Trauma

[Dan Metevier]

Hello. I am a relatively "neurotypical" (except for a touch of bipolar) psychologist who works primarily with people who have experienced an event or series of events in their lives that are overwhelming, traumatic, and/or abusive. I try to help these people get their lives back.

I am interested in knowing whether anyone here fits this description. It seems to me that simply going through life, living in a world that expects one to conform to the "normal" (whatever that means) way of doing things, can be traumatic at some level. I have provided below the laundry list of "symptoms" related to the diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, one of several diagnoses with which such people are labeled (for better or worse). I wonder if you would be so kind as to comment on any experiences that seem traumatic or that fit at all with these symptoms.

Thank you! (Sorry for the length of this posting.)

Intrusive memories
Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

• Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
• Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
• Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event
• Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the event

Avoidance
Symptoms of avoidance may include:

• Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event
• Avoiding places, activities or people that remind you of the traumatic event

Negative changes in thinking and mood
Symptoms of negative changes in thinking and mood may include:

• Negative feelings about yourself or other people
• Inability to experience positive emotions
• Feeling emotionally numb
• Lack of interest in activities you once enjoyed
• Hopelessness about the future
• Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event
• Difficulty maintaining close relationships

Changes in emotional reactions
Symptoms of changes in emotional reactions (also called arousal symptoms) may include:

• Irritability, angry outbursts or aggressive behavior
• Always being on guard for danger
• Overwhelming guilt or shame
• Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much or driving too fast
• Trouble concentrating
• Trouble sleeping
• Being easily startled or frightened

Thanks again!

 

[jamse37]

EMDR?

 

[King_Oni]

For what it's worth, I've had some PTSD-like symptoms, yet nothing conclusive ever got out of it, nor did I really feel the need to pursue a treatment or diagnosis for it. Mainly since it's job-related and (regular) employment seems to be miles away for me at the moment.

Though by talking to therapists about it, an interesting thing came up in that the cause for these symptoms (more along the lines of emotional reactions, avoidance and some negative changes in mood listed) most likely is/was because of how my aspie brain cannot deal with being exposed to a slew of workplace related matters.

I'm willing to say it's not just AS with me and that even some stuff like a small dose of narciccism with me meant I tangled multiple times a day with supervisors who couldn't deal with people like me (though in his defense it was way before I had my diagnosis). It just became an overload of exposure in a social sense,but clearly also in an executive sense (basically "how I function to do the tasks") on top of how my brain cannot deal with structure at all (yes, I'm one of those few aspies that has little to no interest in rigid structure).

Add in that having to put up a mask that pretty much drives me up the wall, does mean that I am quite avoidant for plenty of employment related things. Mind you, it has little to do with being "lazy", it's all the things that come with holding a job that bother me, not getting of my butt and doing something worthwhile with my time.

And that ultimately is the major thing that even jobcenters, even when they know about your situation, can do little about. I always perceive them as "secondary job conditions", yet those are the ones that scarred me enough for a while (and perhaps made me a bit bitter overall) about future prospects and thus avoidance seems to be a biggie for me.

For me, it's not really that I experience the thing over and over in my mind as such. It's knowing that I will actually experience these things physically over and over without any proper accomodation. It's like knowing you will get punched in the face over and over again.

 

[Dan Metevier]

EMDR?

EMDR seems to help a lot of people, though not all. It's one tool in a bag of tools.

 

[Dan Metevier]

It just became an overload of exposure in a social sense

Thanks for your response, in which you said a lot. The quote I cherry-picked reminds me of people who get triggered easily and seem to live in a world of continuous fight or flight. Don't know if that applies to you. Anyway, thanks for your posting!

 

[Spiller]

I am interested in knowing whether anyone here fits this description. It seems to me that simply going through life, living in a world that expects one to conform to the "normal" (whatever that means) way of doing things, can be traumatic at some level

Very interesting question indeed! During my research into AS I've looked at PTSD symptoms and, at least in my opinion, I don't see why AS 'sufferers' shouldn't fit these criteria given suitably distressing life experience, though I've never managed to get any therapist to discuss this; my question is just dismissed out of hand.
An analogy that works for me is, if steel is subjected to a flame for a short time, it turns blue; if it's left in the sun for a longer time it still turns blue. In other words, a lot of heat over a short time is equivalent to a little heat over a long time.
I would say every point on your laundry list applies to me, except 'Negative changes in thinking and mood - Memory problems, including not remembering important aspects of the traumatic event'.
To what degree, however, on a scale of 1-10 ? Can one have 'mild', 'moderate', 'severe' PTSD, or is it all or nothing?
I wonder if there's an online test?
Ah! PTSD Test - HealthyPlace
I scored 17;
1-3: (few symptoms of PTSD)
4-9: (PTSD likely)
10+: (You display many symptoms of PTSD)
Some of the questions are ambigous in translating 'experience' to 'lifetime', however, so I had to be a little loose with interpretation.
Hope this helps and I'll be keeping an eye on this post, thanks Dan!

 

[jamse37]

EMDR seems to help a lot of people, though not all. It's one tool in a bag of tools.

I did research on it as I was told it could benefit myself.
As I have no problem with being open about my traumas through life and no flashback etc i decided I was fine how I was.

 

[Nitro]

I would hope my TBI would allow me to post here. I feel that my traumatic brain injury would make a change in my way of doing things,but I have had all your listed symptoms prior to my injury. I have a much lesser tolerance now for stupidity, There has always been my knock it out before we talk it out attitude. I was extremely wreckless prior to my accident...things have not changed much as far as that goes. I am very insistent on wearing head protection when involved in motorsports activities more than ever as my brain may not agree with another trauma. Laughs at your speed comment in a car...155 mph on the ground and over mach 1 in the air prior to my accident...I am planning a trip to Wendover for a speed run on the salt flats in the 135 mph club in the near future.After proving myself to 135,I intend to go faster if I can get the signoffs necessary to do so. Wreckless...hell yeah!
I returned to the scene of my accident just six months after it happened to do my own reconstruction assessment.
I have never lost hope of getting better,in fact it even amazes me how well I am recovering.
I will probably not fit into any "normal" pattern.

 

[DogwoodTree]

I am interested in knowing whether anyone here fits this description. It seems to me that simply going through life, living in a world that expects one to conform to the "normal" (whatever that means) way of doing things, can be traumatic at some level. I have provided below the laundry list of "symptoms" related to the diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, one of several diagnoses with which such people are labeled (for better or worse). I wonder if you would be so kind as to comment on any experiences that seem traumatic or that fit at all with these symptoms.

Do you distinguish between PTSD and C-PTSD?

Complex post-traumatic stress disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pete Walker, M.A. Psychotherapy

Criteria For Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder

And I'm not clear on whether you're looking for responses from people experiencing PTSD-like symptoms because of AS, or because of additional circumstances.

Both are interesting studies. With the first, just coping with being so different can be a challenge, regardless of the set of differences. With the second, the interplay of AS and traumatic experiences produces a completely different set of challenges than what NTs tend to face in those same experiences. My sisters, who don't show signs of AS like I do, coped with our upbringing in much different ways than I did, some more adaptive, others more destructive.

 

[Kari Suttle]

So you're asking out of curiousity if simply living day to day being made to conform to society's view of normal is somewhat traumatizing? I guess it can. You said once that trauma is in the eyes of the beholder, or something to that affect at least, and it makes sense. I might have never been abused or neglected like people i know were but ever since i was in middle school i've had my own issues. Depression, anxiety, self harm. Suicidal a few times. I never got help or sympathy though, just yelled at. They focused on my simultaneously occurring bad grades and yelling about all the stuff they'd been through as kids and all they'd sacrificed to give me and my siblings a good childhood that they never got. Insults were thrown. Only once did i ever voluntarily ask them for help, back in middle school. They believed me until i got my grade card the next week with a 79 on it and instantly insisted i'd made it all up to avoid getting grounded. I never confided in them again. The other few times they found out it was cause others told them. In college when they found out, the yelling/lecturing about childhood/insults were joined by threats that they would kick me out.

One time in particular hurt the most. Several friends and even an academic advisor had told me that i should get therapy and take a semester off but when i went to my parents about it they flipped. Yes i'd been failing miserably for a second semester in a row but nothing else mattered to them. That particular occurence was definetally traumatizing, at least to me it was. Not the nightmare/flashback traumatizing, lesser than that obviously. But still horrible for me nonetheless.

Even now, a few months shy of two years gone since, i hate thinking about it. My mood takes a 180 the moment anything brings it up in my head. Songs, commercials or tv shows that talk of parents being supportive/being there for you, that sort of thing. Because i'd also been yelled at that time for going out with friends (maybe once a week) and generally trying to enjoy myself at college, i took that line of thinking to an extreme and refused to allow myself to do anything during my down time that could be deemed enjoyable. I would literally sit on facebook or twitter perusing everything if i wasn't doing something work or home related because that's a busywork type activity to me, something you do between tasks that isn't really a hobby just a temporary distraction. It didn't count as fun, like watching anime or reading would be. Which i similarly refused to allow myself to do. But at that point my opinion of them had changed as well. It wouldn't be fun anymore anyways if i'd just feel guilty doing it. Mentally, if i was bad before i became even worse then. 90% of the self harm scars i have are from that time period. Because mom and dad had pretty much deemed me a temporary unwanted guest in their household at that point in time, i did similarly with them. To this day even if i'm allowed to stay provided i'm in school i don't think of them the same. Never will. No one that truly loves their kid would do that when, somehow, my brother got help the instant they found out about his problems and he was a bad kid in those years. I was a good kid the worst i did was get C's in school sometimes. In grade school at least. If i wasn't taking it all out on myself i would force myself into an emotionally numb state to try and escape being overwhelmed while still functioning. In general i'm more irritable, change moods easily, and am far less trusting of people. I don't hold anyone that close to me, haven't since that time.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Using Spiller's Link: PTSD Test - HealthyPlace

Current score is : 16
PTSD Test Scoring:

• 1-3: (few symptoms of PTSD)
• 4-9: (PTSD likely)
• 10+: (You display many symptoms of PTSD)

I can force myself through some routines of daily life and mostly ignore the bad memories and potential adrenaline, and I can carry on conversations about the particular subject if I'm very careful and especially if I avoid certain words. Being a lucid dreamer, I can handle myself in nightmares and to some degree I look forward to them because I can take control of the situation and vent my frustration on those assholes. But the first six months after it happened I was a wreck, and I really don't think AS was a major factor. The event just happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back, and since it is so insignificant to others, I just get laughed at when I tell them about it. So I'm highly selective now who I tell.

 

[Dan Metevier]

It's knowing that I will actually experience these things physically over and over without any proper accommodation.

I appreciate your describing this experience. It's like "pre-traumatic stress," in a sense. Does this seem right?

 

[Dan Metevier]

I don't see why AS 'sufferers' shouldn't fit these criteria given suitably distressing life experience, though I've never managed to get any therapist to discuss this; my question is just dismissed out of hand.

I find this distressing, being "just dismissed out of hand." Aren't you (the client) the one who knows where it hurts? I have never understood this ego-related way of being of some therapists. Sorry you had to experience this. :-(

 

[Dan Metevier]

Can one have 'mild', 'moderate', 'severe' PTSD, or is it all or nothing?

I absolutely believe that PTSD is on a "spectrum," so to speak. Some researchers and clinicians use phrases like "complex PTSD" or "Disorders of Extreme Stress" or "Developmental Trauma Disorder." None of these have made it into the official disgnostic manual, however.

 

[Dan Metevier]

I have never lost hope of getting better, in fact it even amazes me how well I am recovering.
I will probably not fit into any "normal" pattern.

Glad to hear you have not lost hope and are recovering. Also, I hope you never fit into "normal."

 

[Dan Metevier]

Do you distinguish between PTSD and C-PTSD?

Yes I do. The first seems to relate to a one-time event, such as a car accident or mugging. The second seems to relate to ongoing events, such as child abuse or neglect or domestic violence. They have similar effects on the brain in terms of activated fight/flight/freeze, but the second (complex) seems to have a strong effect on how people relate to others (poorly) and has more extreme effects in general. That's my experience and/or understanding. Thanks for the question.

 

[Dan Metevier]

And I'm not clear on whether you're looking for responses from people experiencing PTSD-like symptoms because of AS, or because of additional circumstances.

Really more the first one. In other words, to what extent is having AS (in all its myriad forms) a traumatizing experience in our world? Thanks for asking this, too.

 

[Dan Metevier]

With the second, the interplay of AS and traumatic experiences produces a completely different set of challenges than what NTs tend to face in those same experiences.

I would be interested to know more about this, if you'd be willing to say. Thanks!

 

[Dan Metevier]

You said once that trauma is in the eyes of the beholder, or something to that affect at least, and it makes sense.

Kari, I read your story with great sadness (not your fault) and I hope that, someday, things improve for you. Thank you for sharing your story. There are others out there like you (unfortunately). Don't lose hope (easy for me to say, I know).

 

[Dan Metevier]

The event just happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back

Thank you for sharing this. Makes me wonder what "the event" was. But that's for you to tell or not tell, as you deem appropriate. At any rate, your statement above makes me wonder whether AS and many other conditions/situations make people more susceptible to trauma or more fragile or something. Does that make sense?