Aspergers and Marijuana

[Spiller]

Spiller, I hope come through this bad time soon. I have dark periods occasionally too, but am pretty good at the moment. I also find that exactly one bottle of wine works best.
I haven't used any green for about 30 years now - maybe I should put part of my garden to good use

My ups and downs are the result, mainly, of loneliness, Tachyon, but are greatly exacerbated by the fluctuation in my medication. If I had unlimited access to my preferred strains (not the random, high THC stuff available on the street) I'd rarely, if ever touch alcohol and would be on a more or less even keel all the time. It's only because there's no other recourse for me that the one bottle of wine is necessary - in the past I self-harmed (since my teens, actually) and have attempted suicide several times (partly reaction to the side effects of SSRI's).. I couldn't allow that behaviour to continue so I resorted to experimenting with various natural herbs and drugs:

MDMA, in small doses, works quite well for depression and anxiety, but is addictive and a Class A substance I don't fancy getting arrested for.
Salvia Divinorum in small doses is a good relaxant and is legal in the UK, quite a ride in larger doses too.
Valerian is a legal, natural herb that makes a relaxing tea, only to be used in tiny doses though, as it can be dangerous.
Alcohol was my last resort and I suffered a lot of blackouts and hangovers getting the type and dosage right - nasty stuff!
Cannabis in liquid form, in small doses, drastically reduces depression and anxiety and has no side effects, for me, whatsoever.

So it's one bottle of white wine only for me, when I have to, to eke out my supply of genuine medicine.. it doesn't get me drunk, but I can't drive, I fall asleep and I lose time with my son - I really don't want him growing up with an alcoholic for a father.
Roll on legalisation, then I'll be able to medicate my conditions myself, for free!

 

[tachyon]

My ups and downs are the result, mainly, of loneliness, Tachyon, but are greatly exacerbated by the fluctuation in my medication. If I had unlimited access to my preferred strains (not the random, high THC stuff available on the street) I'd rarely, if ever touch alcohol and would be on a more or less even keel all the time. It's only because there's no other recourse for me that the one bottle of wine is necessary - in the past I self-harmed (since my teens, actually) and have attempted suicide several times (partly reaction to the side effects of SSRI's).. I couldn't allow that behaviour to continue so I resorted to experimenting with various natural herbs and drugs:

I hope that you eventually find a way to accept the being-alone/loneliness. I realised long ago that I basically have only two options - either live with a companion who would want me to engage socially like the 99% or live by myself. For me, neither option is perfect, but given a choice (which I have in later life) I choose the latter. I wish there were more options, but I haven't found any.
For me the bad times occur when I start thinking about the fact that there is no option 3 and that my current choice will prevail until the end because to revert to option 1 would require real sacrifice by me. That, plus the conscious understanding that I'm presenting an interface to people in social situations and wondering if anybody actually knows me

You definitely should enjoy time with your son whenever possible. I don't have any regrets about time spent with my two .

 

[Spiller]

I hope that you eventually find a way to accept the being-alone/loneliness. I realised long ago that I basically have only two options - either live with a companion who would want me to engage socially like the 99% or live by myself. For me, neither option is perfect, but given a choice (which I have in later life) I choose the latter. I wish there were more options, but I haven't found any.
For me the bad times occur when I start thinking about the fact that there is no option 3 and that my current choice will prevail until the end because to revert to option 1 would require real sacrifice by me. That, plus the conscious understanding that I'm presenting an interface to people in social situations and wondering if anybody actually knows me

You definitely should enjoy time with your son whenever possible. I don't have any regrets about time spent with my two .

Thanks for your thought, Tachyon - I managed to accept the loneliness for the first 40 years, mainly by diverting my attention into various interests and solitary activities, but it does seem to be getting harder lately..
I can manage a fair amount of socialising, especially with a front (wo)man to carry conversations and such, so option 1, while an effort, is an acceptable one, though it's attainment is more or less down to chance for me.. so the hunt is on for option 3+ as option 2 appears to be running out of juice..
Still, never say never..

 

[Nitro]

Brain Trauma-Medical Marijuana

 

[Charles]

My husband is undiagnosed Aspergers and now retired. He is now addicted to pot. He smokes it every night. It does make him talk. But also makes him want to argue when he is finally talking. I've wondered if the AS like the pot better than the NT?

His white blood cell count was up. The doctors did further testing and said "you have spots on you lungs - not good" the beginnning of the end. They said quit smoking or you will get cancer fast. The doctors told him pot is worse for your lungs than ciggarettes. He smokes a pack or more a day.

My conclusion - pot causes cancer to the lungs.

If the doctors told you that pot is worse for your lungs than cigarettes, your doctor is simply lying. If he smokes cigarettes, cigarette cause lung cancer, cannabis does NOT! Even the most skeptical of researches have concluded it SHOULD cause cancer, but it does NOT. Not one single case linked to cannabis. Ever, in the history of mankind. Not one. In fact, it has been found that cannabis in fact REVERSES tumor growth and prevents metastasis when concentrated and ingested in raw form. Cannabis (cannabidiol specifically) is a proven neuroprotectant, which is exactly why it helps people with Asperger's, seizure disorders, Parkinsons disease, traumatic brain injury, etc.. etc.. Your conclusion is false and your assertions irresponsible.

 

[Charles]

It does, it has a lot more carcinogens than regular tobacco. I would say the anti-depressant point is a side effect (not caring) from it. Who the heck is giving this to you as medical marijuana? A doctor suggested it for AS?

You are wrong on just about every level. Not one case of cancer ever attributed to cannabis. Not ONE in the history of mankind. And the anti-depressant effect is NOT a side effect (not caring). Cannabidiol is a proven neuroprotectant, it fixes neuropathways that are misfiring. It is responsible for neuroGENESIS. This is why it is effective for treating PTSD, Depression, seizure disorders, and ASPERGER'S SYNDROME. The US Government even holds a patent for it as a safe and effective neuroprotectant and antioxidant. You should do some research on the subject.

 

[Charles]

It scares me too, guys. The thought of lung cancer (not to mention being stones all the time) sounds worse that whatever condition the person is smoking it for. Is there a way he can continue taking it but without smoking it? What aspect of Asperger's (which is not a debilitating & painful medical condition) is he taking it for: anxiety? It can be calming- but you said he becomes more verbal but also more argumentative (might just be his own personality too...). The weed people smoke today is not the same mild herb enjoyed by hippies back in the 60's. It too is grown with GMO seeds to yield harvests with much higher concentrations of THC than the hippies ever dreamed of.

The thing with so many drugs (not just 'medical' weed) that they can become addictive after very little exposure, they can lose potency after a while meaning that the person has to take more & more to gain the same levels of relief & they can have devastating effects on other parts of the body. Also, NONE has been tested on a significant sample of Aspies to gauge the effects on our Neuro-atypical brains! So many people here seem to be struggling from Klonopin & have gone through hell to get off of it & survive the withdrawal process. With many of us having obsessive tendencies to begin with & a tendency to zone out or be clumsy, how wise is it to take drugs with these very side effects?

First, there is zero legitimate concern for lung cancer. But if you are concerned, vaporizing eliminates that risk, and it can be used as a concentrated oil. Second, you don't have to be "stoned". Because it isn't THC that works for neurological conditions. It is CBD, cannabidiol. And you can get strains of cannabis, or oils, that are strong in CBD and very low in THC, and experience NO HIGH WHATSOEVER. The problem with "STREET WEED", though, is that it all is as strong in THC as possible, and THC in fact increases anxiety and paranoia. So the stuff you can get on the street is usually not as helpful. They are discovering this stuff now that it is legal in some states and they can actually research it. Look in to it. You are wrong on the significant sample, wrong about addictive nature (not CBD anyway), and CBD does not build a tolerance like THC. EVERY pharmaceutical out there is toxic with horrible side effects. Not cannabis.

 

[Charles]

I can say from my own anecdotal experience that weed did indeed intensify my Aspie tendencies--mainly poor social functioning and "zoning out," as you say, which is the reason I usually did it alone. Also from my anecdotal experience, I've been addicted to Klonopin and am still addicted to nicotine, but I had no problem whatsoever quitting marijuana. The main danger as far as that is concerned is plain old psychological addiction--which is dangerous enough in itself. But it's like I said--I smoked it not so much for the high as for the aftereffects of that high.

Likely you had a strain high in THC and low in CBD judging from your reaction. THC actually increases anxiety, including social anxiety. ALL street weed is high in THC, with no concern for CBD. CBD is what can stop seizures, treat depression, turn PTSD around, and mitigate Asperger's. Because CBD is a neuroprotectant that helps neurons properly communicate.

 

[Charles]

You may not need as much to get the medicinal effect. My boyfriend's son does pot for bipolar, and he never actually seemed high to me. Whereas my roommate turned into a complete idiot when she did pot and ate everything in sight. There are other ways to do pot other smoking it, I guess that may just be the easiest way. I know some people will bake it into brownies. If you bake it you could bake a batch then eat one and freeze the rest. On some of the medical marijana sites will explain the effects of different methods of consumption. For example they said baking it will take longer for it to take effect but the effects will last longer. There is also a liquid form that can be added topically to the skin, put under the tongue or put into tea. I will say that for the feeling of being high from pot was very uncomfortable, it felt the same as when i I dissociate which happens alot when I am very stressed. There was no positive in it for me.

Edibles are not very good for us Aspies. Edibles work in a different way, and the THC involved is unusually maximized. It is NOT THC that works for us, just the exact opposite. THC increases anxiety and paranoia. The kid who jumped out a window in Colorado, for example. He used an edible, it was his first time. And he started talking about how he let his parents down, they were going to find out, and he jumped. What works for us is strains high in concentrations of what is called CBD, or cannabidiol. It can really only be effectively taken by smoking, vaporizing, or a concentrated raw oil (extract). CBD does not even get you "high" at all. Such as strains like Charlotte's Web, which they have given to children with seizure disorders with miraculous effect.

 

[Charles]

I repeat very importantly, Marijuana does not cause lung cancer by itself. However, if you smoke Tobacco already, and you decide to smoke Marijuana too...your risk for lung cancer goes UP by 300%!
So Marijuana is safe if smoked by itself! Stop worrying about the health risks because there practically are NONE. But there are soooo many benefits, and not only to Asperger's patients but to many other illness inflicted people as well!
Comments welcomed.

True! Even the most skeptical researches can only say they believe it SHOULD cause cancer, but so far no proof. If anyone is concerned about that, they should vaporize, or use a CBD oil **( The "legal in 50 states" CBD oil is useless, derived from hemp seed and absent neuroprotectant effect).

 

[Charles]

I think that's a really important point. In my opinion, they've ruined weed. It's not the relaxant it was when I first used it.

You are correct! They have amped the THC levels in "street weed" to intensify the "high". Only problem is, CBD is the calming effect, THC actually increases anxiety and paranoia! That is why those who use it for depression, PTSD, anxiety, Asperger's, etc.. need to find a strain that is low in THC and high in CBD, which you can only really do in legalized states where they can give specific strains they know the concentrations of.

 

[Charles]

Your dad's problems from what i can discern are not from smoking pot...they are from overspending and the economy probably didnt help his business too much either. Marijuana i doubt is the problem.

You are completely misrepresenting cannabis.

 

[Charles]

to be honest with you this sounds like you have decided that you think marijuana is be best thing since sliced bread and your not willing to listen to reason. By all means smoke all you like and live out your life as a drug addict.



Yes overspending is part of it. But Marijuana also had a massive part. Marijuana messes with your brain. When I last visited my family I had to put up with my dad's horrible attitude to everyone because he had no weed. And I had to witness the aftermath of my dad's selfishness because he would rather smoke weed than build a business to support his wife and treat his family with respect. Instead my dad would hide the bills and not pay them because he thought they were unimportant. He never paid taxes. He eventually stopped doing work for people, all the while smoking weed, and just took the money from people. There was overspending, but that was caused by his brain being so screwed up by weed. My dad made stupid decisions like not getting customers to sign a contract or sign off on work which lead to more problems. All because he wasn't thinking straight. In the end all he wanted to do was smoke weed ... but was happy to screw over his customers for their money so he could keep up this habit.

You are a fool if you think you can smoke something like Marijuana and it will have no lasting impact on your life. My dad lost everything and now my mum has to clean it up because my dad is too much of a selfish child to fix it. All because of weed. If my dad hadn't smoked weed he might still have his business and might actually be making a killing.

All that will happen from you smoking weed is you will become a lazy bum that never amounts to anything and just sits in a corner smoking weed claiming "its for my health man".

You are completely wrong, utterly uninformed, and spreading false and irresponsible information.

"You are a fool if you think you can smoke something like Marijuana and it will have no lasting impact on your life." Well, there I guess I have to agree. Those who have used a strain low in THC and high in CBD have definitely had it make a lasting impact on their life. Like they can go outside. They can talk on the phone. They can be out in a crowd. They can live without crippling anxiety. They can stop gripping the carpet with their toes. They can let go of negative thoughts. THEY CAN LIVE THEIR LIVES without the crippling effects of Asperger's. So yes, that is a lasting impact.

"All that will happen from you smoking weed is you will become a lazy bum that never amounts to anything and just sits in a corner smoking weed claiming "its for my health man"
Ah yes. Tell that to Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. Oprah Winfrey. Clarence Thomas. George Soros. Ted Turner. Oh, and the current PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. All lazy bums who never amounted to anything.

I am sorry about your father. But you had a dad who cared more about getting high than his family. Not a dad who properly medicated a condition. That sucks, but don't blame the medication. You should do some actual research before you berate others who know more about it than you do, and spout false and ignorant information.

 

[Charles]

I hear marijuana makes you feel good, and that can give people the idea that it is helping them, but there have been too many studies that show it lowers the IQ, contributes to psychosis and paranoia, and negatively effects people's ability to hold a job. I think it is dangerous. I use plenty of herbs, but not illegal ones, not without research, and not by smoking them.

Whoa there, because you are wrong and spreading LONG disproven lies. It has been proven NOT to lower IQ in the least. No, it does not lead to psychosis. There has been a marked increase in cannabis users per capita in the last 40 years, and no corresponding increase in psychotic individuals. High levels of THC does cause increased anxiety and paranoia, that is TRUE, but those effects are mitigated by CBD, which is actually the component that calms, relieves anxiety, and mitigates Aspeger's syndrome. CBD does not cause any euphoric effect. Most street weed is maximized in THC, which is counterproductive, but in legalized states you can get strains with high CBD and get relief without high or anxiety.

 

[Charles]

Occasional self-medication isn’t inherently bad, but it shouldn’t be relied on at the expense of learning actual coping skills. Occasional recreational use is, in my opinion, not at all a bad thing--and that holds for things besides alcohol and pot. If you want to have a little fun every now and then, I see no reason why smoking a doobie with a friend once a week or so, or eating psylocybin mushrooms at a Phish show, can do any harm. And if you do it occasionally to get yourself out of your own head and reorganize your thoughts, that’s perfectly legitimate—I can personally vouch for the benefits of that. I don’t see why it should be viewed as any worse than having an occasional drink, and that is a definite cultural bias, as has already been pointed out. However, if you do it ALL THE TIME, that means you either have some serious problems that the drug alone cannot address, that you lack proper and reasonable coping skills, or that you’re just a pretty boring person; and, as with any substance, doing it to excess is a terrible idea. Even regular use, however, is not necessarily a road to addiction, perdition and despair; when that happens, there are ALMOST ALWAYS other factors involved—socioeconomic, mental health, family life, etc.—and, while it may certainly be compounding things (it usually does), it is silly to put all the blame on marijuana alone. (I can think of many high-functioning stoners that I know personally—I used to be one, myself.)

As for health benefits and risks—far too often, I think a lot of people (mostly those who enjoy drugs recreationally) jump on the fact that these drugs are being studied, but ignore whatever the actual results might be. And, as with anything in medicine, “preliminary results” means almost nothing. The fact is, there is no such thing as a panacea for mental or physical health, however much one sees it framed that way. As to whether marijuana can be responsible for lung cancer: I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be; it has many more carcinogens than tobacco, and, while one usually smokes many more cigarettes in a day, I would be highly surprised if daily use didn’t have some adverse effect there. I would be interested to see people here link to some actual WELL-CONTROLLED and LONG-TERM studies. There is definitely a lower risk of dependency than with, say, alcohol, or heroine, but ANY substance that alters brain chemistry like that is not exactly risk-free.

I think some people in this thread on either side are coming down far too hard on this, and relying far too heavily on anecdote.

Even when you wrote this, the evidence was already in and very conclusive. Your statements are false. It would be no more accurate to say that if you take insulin all the time, there is something wrong with your personality. CBD is a neuroprotectant that allows neuropathways to properly communicate. This is why it is effective in treating seizure disorders. And no, cannabis does not cause lung cancer. In fact, it is well documented that cannabis reverses tumor growth, and prevents metastasis when concentrated raw and ingested. These are not "preliminary results". The US Government has held a patent on cannabis as a neuroprotectant since 2003!!!!

 

[Charles]

Any drug you take will only do one thing and that is mask the problem. Its not dealing with it. And ultimately a drug like marijuana will probably give you more problems in the long run if and when you become addicted to it. This is why I don't take drugs for my depression, anxiety or anything else aspie related. I know I have to change the way I think to really recover and for a lot of people that is simply too much hard work. Its easier to mask the problem.

Even anti depressents and anti anxiety drugs are addictive. Studies have shown this fact. So over time even the so called good drugs make your brain hooked on something that is really not that good for you after all and make it so you can only function on said drug. If you really want to just do that for the rest of your life it doesn't really matter what name the drug has ... just go take it. But if you really want to heal and really want to be free of the crap in your head no drug will help that. It will only make it worse. And then you will have addiction demons to fix as well.

You are incorrect. Cannabis is a neuroprotectant and actually allows neuropathways to communicate. It does not "mask" the problem. It literally FIXES the misfiring neurons. This is why it is also used to combat seizure disorders and a myriad of other problems. If you do not need it, awesome. But the things you are saying are simply untrue.

 

[Charles]

asthma and depression are two different things. So completely different I don't think you can compare them. That's like telling a diabetic not to take insulin or what ever. I think we are now so conditioned to the fact that a magical little pill (or drug) will cure us we don't think of any alternative when it comes to mental health. But other health conditions ... we know very well that if you don't use your inhaler when you have an asthma attack you could die.

I was on prozac (I dunno what its called now) for over five years. While I was a teenager too. I lost all ability to function properly and I stopped having joy in life. I saw the world as grey and bland and bleak. I existed. I didn't realize how much I gave up to have this horrible miserable existence until I had to stop taking them to replace them with another anti depressant. Now I realize exactly what I gave up to be normal and frankly I would happily take the huge ups and downs of depression just so I can feel something, so I can have creativity in my life, so I can be a whole instead of a being. I was just a robot in life when I was on this stuff and without it I have passion, I have emotion, I have creativity. I want to live. I want to be a better person.

I have also been on anti anxiety drugs as well. They ****ed with my heart, my head, my balance, my stomach. So I had a small amount of relief from the anxiety but I had so many side effects that I couldn't justify taking it.

So I have been on all the drugs that a doctor can give you. I have been to these dark places. I have self medicated. My fave self medication at present is food but I have done other stuff. I have tried everything. And I have come to the conclusion that you have to reprogram your thinking to escape this. You have to recognise your spiral down into depression and then shut it down. You have to recognise your spiral into anxiety. I battle every single day and I do it without drugs. I choose no drugs of any description because I have no personal experience with them (I'm talking prescription and illicit drugs here) that justifies them.

I have had my psychologist sit me down and tell me the same stuff you guys are talking about ... how depression and anxiety are chemical inbalances in the brain. That may well be. But studies have shown that anti depressants don't do much at all except raise the levels of neuro transmitters in your brain to a dangerously high level so that when you stop taking them you can't actually function normally. As in you can't feel happiness without them. Your body just can't cope.

See this article Anti depressants are merely another addiction - for doctors as well as the patients | Mail Online

The point I really want to make is that illicit drugs are illicit for a reason and that there is an alternative to just popping what ever anti depressant your GP puts you on. The most success I have ever had was when I took fish oil tablets. You have to take 500mg or more of the DHA oil a day (I think that's the right letters) and it repairs the pathways in your brain that have been damaged by depression and anxiety. It works. It takes at least a month but you feel better. And that doesn't need a massive lifestyle change Undiagnosed.

You are right undiagnosed that it takes a massive amount of effort to change your life style but you can either choose to be hopped up on drugs for the rest of your life, taking what ever new pill they produce each year, dealing with the side effects or you can get healthy and get your life back on track through positive thinking and changing your life style for the better. Exercise for instance has shown to be fair better at controlling depression than most anti depressants for instance. And maybe not eating all those ridiculous food additives (which are only tested on their own and never together so who knows what the cocktail of chemicals your eating does). That is all within our power to do even if you do it slowly over time. And so far my experience tells me that solution is far more productive and effect than drugs of any description.

PS: I would never advocate people stopping any medication without talking to a doctor. I'm not a doctor and I only speak from personal experience. It seems that there are a lot of people here though who are happy to just accept that a magic little pill (or a joint) will be the ultimate solution for the mental health issues without at least considering alternatives.

"Asthma and Depression are two different things". Really? As if that invalidates the comparison. They are both currently treated with pharmaceuticals that have dangerous side effects.
"Illicit drugs are illicit for a reason". Yup. And in the case of cannabis, for several reasons. Because William Randolph Hearst put all his money in timber, and they found they could make as much paper from one acre of hemp as several acres of pine, and hemp would renew in one year where pine took 20 years. He happened to have a friend who was the Secretary of the Interior. Chemical companies could not sell rayon and nylon with hemp fibers being stronger and cheaper. Petroleum companies stood to lose billions (HENRY FORD created a car that ran on hemp instead of gas). Pharmaceutical companies would lose billions. And it stays "illicit" because we now have private "for profit" prisons, and low level cannabis users make better employees than murders and rapists. Which is why you have people doing more time for selling a plant than raping a grandmother.

 

[Charles]

It seems that weed would be more helpful for people with ADHD, it seems it can make some of the Asperger's symptoms worse

It absolutely can with strains that are high in THC, which increases anxiety. CBD, which does not actually get you high, has the opposite effect and strains high in CBD are what people with Asperger's (and PTSD and depression) are using with great effect.

 

[Charles]

I no longer use marijuana, however I do feel that it has helped me learn to better cope with some of my symptoms, become more giving and empathetic and learn how to socialize properly. I am now pursuing work and feel that - were it not for marijuana - I would not have any real ability to survive an interview process or even give the facade of bowing to an authoritative figure.

Also, if you want to get the cannabinoids without having any burning material, you can obtain or make BHO (butane hash oil), which is a 98+% pure cannabinoid extraction. I would say THC, but there are other chemicals at work in marijuana which are of similar molecular structure and are therefor extracted with the cannabinoids.

This knowledge being shared, I would like to say that I release myself of any negative experiences from BHO, since it's easy to use too much and get way too high for comfort, if you haven't smoked in a while. As for me, I was up to smoking two grams a day, so to really get *high* I needed the effective THC of a whole gram, which is a lot of material. Being concerned about my lung health (I was a pack-a-day smoker), I made myself some BHO and that really improved my lung health.

I can say I was mentally and physiologically addicted to marijuana, and that some types made my paranoia worse, but the relief that was felt when I found the right stuff was incredible. The world was manageable, people weren't threatening and I didn't over-react to things in a way which seemed unreasonable to NTs. I found myself getting more respect from my peers and I was - in general - more bearable to be around.

THC is bad for people with Asperger's or any anxiety issue, especially concentrates. You want CBD for Asperger's or other anxiety / neurological / psychological condition.

 

[Stik]

It absolutely can with strains that are high in THC, which increases anxiety. CBD, which does not actually get you high, has the opposite effect and strains high in CBD are what people with Asperger's (and PTSD and depression) are using with great effect.

I wish they would approve medical marijuana for anxiety where I am. I'm so sensitive to other medications and they usually give me really bad side effects. I've felt the suicidal ideation, hostility, and severe physical side effects.