ASD dad of three NT girls. HELP!?

[Rocco]

I am 33, father of three daughters: 12,12,9. I am an Aspie, kids most likely not on spectrum. I have my rules and standards, and it seems so many rules are broken. I find myself constantly nagging them about breaking rules. I can't find a happy medium, or "choose my battles". I make rules to establish good healthy habits.
Am I a complainer / nag?

Here are a few rules broken today that I called them on and got several withering stares in return.

Fist full sized wads of toilet paper clogging toilet (1-2 rolls per day!!!!!)

Dragging plates/ bowls across fine wood table.

Showering in my bathroom
(They have their own)

Leaving lights on when not in rooms and back door open.

Whining about folding laundry.

Eating junk food after school.

Raising their voices.

Talking INCESSANTLY ( I didn't mention this to them)

Drinking lunch water bottles at dinner/ random times instead of filtered tap water.

Dirty laundry left in bathroom and hall way.

Crying with a moaning wail at every dispute between kids
( 20 minutes or longer at times)

Making high pitched steaks and squeals that make my ears hurt.

Arguing.

Staying up past 8:45 bed time.

On any other day the list may be longer and more severe rules broken. This stuff makes me very very disturbed and upset, I keep it inside mostly. I can't seem to get them to follow many rules.

To be fair they are well behaved outside the house. Get good/ great grades. Make generally good decisions. Are liked by peers and teachers. I feel like it could be so much worse than it is, but that doesn't reduce my frustration with their rule breaking.

Any autistic parents out there who have learned to cope with such things? Help please. I don't want to be an annoying overbearing Dad, but I don't want so many rules broken either.

Edit: misuse of then for than. Tsk tsk.

 

[Randomperson]

You just described everything that makes me not want children even if I could have them And you are not even into the worst of it yet, a couple more years and you might have to deal with grand children or drugs. Best of luck, but 3 girls? You are doomed!

 

[Rocco]

You just described everything that makes me not want children even if I could have them And you are not even into the worst of it yet, a couple more years and you might have to deal with grand children or drugs. Best of luck, but 3 girls? You are doomed!

Lol, I know! I want to buy the house next door and live alone. Searching for my tooth brush at 3:30am is a terrible way to start the day

Although they do accomplish a lot of chores, more than me, and find my lost stuff all the time.

If I could figure out how to get past the little things this would be normally frustrating instead of ASD monumentally disruptive.

 

[Vanilla]

It sounds like they need an authority figure, but don't seem to consider yourself as one. Perhaps there are issues here regarding communication. If you haven't yet, perhaps try sitting down with them, and reasoning with them. If that doesn't work, perhaps family therapy, with a therapist who understands AS.

 

[Sass]

I'm an aspie mother of two, one on the spectrum, one who might be. They're 6 and 8, but a lot of the things you have on your list I can relate to.

I take a different approach to rules around the house though (much to my husband's dismay lol). I have very few 'set in stone' rules that I enforce. I never wanted to be an 'enforcer', so I'm not. I'm not sure why my approach has been working, but it does (for us), and the kids are pretty good at tidying up after themselves and not wrecking the place. They do fight and whine, but that's a kid thing and I don't think it'll stop until they grow out of it. Anything too loud or unpleasant for me and I go to a quiet part of the house until the noise is over. It's their job to sort out their arguments, unless there's a real fist fight going on, which almost never happens. I think because I don't have a huge set of rules they have to remember all the time, they're better at remembering the ones I do like them to abide by, and also they've learnt how to treat the house and their belongings by watching me. Not only do I pick my battles, but they've learnt to do the same, which means they don't complain nearly as much about random things that aren't that big in the scheme of things.

I guess the trick to not having so many rules broken is not over-doing it on the rules.

This is just what works for me though, my kids are only small lol. You've got two 12-year-olds, and there's a whole other level of stuff going on with hormones there, they're programmed to mess with you lol.

 

[May Black]

I cannot relate to your situation or give you advice how to cope with it, all I can say is that except squeaking, most of the other rules make sense, however you have teenage daughters. They're entering the period when nothing you do will be reasonable. Prepare yourself for time when rules will be broken and questioned. If you're too hard, they will more than likely go and do stuff behind your back. I'd probably ease up on the 8.45 rule as well, at least for the 12 year olds. Also, make your rules general instead of detailed. Keep the house clean is a better rule than having it divided into wash dishes after yourself, don't leave clothes around etc. If you can avoid it, don't have rules that are connected to you as a person (don't talk loud it hurts dad's ears), it might undermine your authority.

 

[icesyckel]

I am not a parent. However, I believe that your rules seem sound/reasonable. Whatever you do to enforce them isn't working, so the logical response would be to alter either the method or degree of our enforcement mechanism.

If they behave outside the home as you've reported, then other authority figures are able to enforce their rules with your daughters. Find out how the school (for example) is enforcing its rules, and maybe see if you can do something similar?

I hope that helps. My parents just used spankings and groundings when I was young. Both worked pretty well on me, I think, but I noticed that my sisters really didn't respond to the groundings - only the spankings. They would choose a month without TV over two minutes of pain. My dad used to give us the choice sometimes - I always opted for the spanking. My sisters would take the grounding, misbehave again, and then only come to order after they got a spanking for the repeat offense (leaving themselves humorously grounded and spanked).

 

[Judge]

Am I a complainer / nag?

Good news: No, I think what you have been complaining about just makes you an Aspie.You appreciate some semblance of order. So do I !

Bad news: What you are complaining about seems par for the course for preteens. But if they are keeping their grades up and aren't getting into serious trouble, it seems to me you're on the plus side of the equation rather than a minus side.

I'm not a parent, so all I can say is that maybe patience is your best card in this game.

 

[Ereth]

Here are a few rules broken today that I called them on and got several withering stares in return.

Fist full sized wads of toilet paper clogging toilet

Dragging plates/ bowls across fine wood table.

Showering in my bathroom
(They have their own)

Leaving lights on when not in rooms and back door open.

Whining about folding laundry.

Eating junk food after school.

Raising their voices.

Talking INCESSANTLY ( I didn't mention this to them)

Drinking lunch water bottles at dinner/ random times instead of filtered tap water.

Dirty laundry left in bathroom and hall way.

Crying with a moaning wail at every dispute between kids
( 20 minutes or longer at times)

Making high pitched squeaks and squeals that make my ears hurt.

Arguing.

Staying up past 8:45 bed time.

I'm not a parent, but I think some of your rules are a little unenforceable. The ones I've put in boldface are fine, but the rest are things that I don't think you can enforce as "rules," especially the ones about talking. Sometimes kids are going to want to talk, laugh, or cry. (And as long as your girls actually fold their laundry, it doesn't really matter how much they complain, does it?)

Regarding the dragging of plates, you just have to say, "Please don't drag your plates." But you'll have to resign yourself to the possibility the table will not be in perfect condition. Having a family means that "perfect" is out of the question.

Drinking bottled water at dinner seems to be a preference of theirs and you can't really tell your daughters they can't do it. (Considering that you can get many, many bottles per package, I don't think one or two bottles drunk at home is really a big deal. If you're worried about the money spent, start sending them to school with filtered tap water instead. Bottled water is a scam anyway.)

You can, however, say that if they drink up all their bottled water at home, instead of at school where they're meant to have it, you won't hear complaints about it having run out.

Leaving lights on really isn't something to make a big deal out of if it's only for a few minutes. It's better for the environment to turn them off when not in use, of course, but you have to be realistic about how people operate. I know I'd much rather not return to a dark kitchen if I'm going outside to get an ice cream from the refrigerator.

 

[zurb]

We sometimes have the impression that other families are more perfect and peaceful than ours. We appreciate those who admit their kids weren't perfect and ours are normal. I have similar issues with our kids so your's sound pretty normal to me.

 

[apsie]

For the record, I don't think you're doing allot of things wrong. Considering they're age and your list of which rules are broken, I'd say most if not every family has children doing the same.
Most kids don't really give a crap about why the rules are in place, they care about the cause and effect of breaking them.

 

[gregmcph]

They sound like....kids.
None of the stuff you listed is very important. Just normal noisy, a bit self centred (as all kids are), kids who don't take your personal neatness and noise obsessions as seriously as you do.

I have 2 daughters, aged 16 and 18. My biggest fear was that they would have my withdrawn oddness. The younger one has her "leave me alone in my cave" moments, but I am so happy that she has good friends and goes out into the world to do stuff with them.

I guess that's my message. Don't tie them down. Don't force them into an Aspie lifestyle when it is not their nature. Be happy they are outward and free.

When it gets too loud, go hide in your bedroom or study for a bit. When they are out of the house, quietly go pick up their dirty clothes, make their beds, wash the dishes and make the house clean and neat. And keep on loving them.

 

[gregmcph]

We sometimes have the impression that other families are more perfect and peaceful than ours. We appreciate those who admit their kids weren't perfect and ours are normal. I have similar issues with our kids so your's sound pretty normal to me.

Well, for all the grumbling about messy kids who wont make their beds in my house, I then hear about other families and realise that my kids are pretty damn good. They're not getting expelled from school. They're not boozing. They still generally love us, their parents.

You can get envious of those Perfect families where everyone is going to grow up to be a doctor and play the piano wonderfully. Good for them. But be very grateful you aren't in the opposite direction with pregnant teenagers and sons with police records.

 

[Rocco]

Well said Greg.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I come first to give you a metaphorical hug of comfort. Or moment of silence, whichever is more appropriate for two Aspies to do. I do not envy having three daughters. I'm struggling with just one son! And he's two, not twelve. I'll share my tactics anyway, maybe I'll give you an idea?

Over all, if that's all they're doing, they're good kids. Here are some things I've seen other parents do to work out some of the rough edges and a few things I'm trying:
- Clothes that are not put in the appropriate "wash this" piles will not be washed. Reports say kids start picking up after themselves in time when they started running out of clothes. My toddler gets a kick out of helping me put everything in the clothes basket. I hope he still feels that way in ten years.
- Let children stay up as late as they wish, but morning is a hard rule. Highly effective among my great grandmother's home because they were farmers, and farmers are known for nudging the sun out of bed.
- Find another chore to compensate for laundry? Mom handled all our laundry, but my sister and I had to help with the sweeping, mopping, and other stuff in return. But go easy on the chores. I still have resentment toward cleaning because it was mandatory. When my kid gets older, likely at most I'll leave it an option for him to decide or just ask him to keep my company while I work.
- Limit or exchange after school snacks? Like maybe a small snack or two if it's unhealthy snacks, or all the snacks they want if they pick healthy stuff like apple slices. I let my kid have just one pack of gummies or something if he can't wait for supper to finish cooking.
- Why not reuse the water bottles? If they're happier using a water bottle, just fill them back up with the filtered tap water. Bottles are good for about 3-5 uses before they taste funny if you don't wash them. They can last quite a while if you do wash them out from time to time.
- Somehow teach them to use their "inside voice". What I tell my kid is that if he wants to be noisy, to go to the living room or his room (because I'm usually already in my hidey hole and he comes in there to bang on the walls). It's a struggle, but he's being polite for the most part for a toddler. I give him extra cuddles and tell him "thank you". As he gets older, I'll ask him to go play outside where he can rip, roar, and play as hard as he wants.
- Switch to plastic bowls and plates that are less likely to scratch? Or, how about some place mats or a table cloth to protect the wood during meals? Much easier to clean too. I really need some!
- Perhaps let them shower in your bathroom, but let them know they have to pick up after themselves otherwise you'll not let them use it? We have two tubs on our home, and I'm slowly teaching him that if he's good and doesn't splash too much he can take longer baths in the big tub.

For the wasteful items like leaving lights on and toilet paper, I'm not sure. As partially mentioned, I didn't grow up wealthy and my parents saw to it we didn't waste because they couldn't afford for us to do it. I'm not sure of their methods, they had me trained before I remember. Given my age at the time, it was probably anywhere from a gentle reminder to a scolding. I agree with Ereth that if it's little quick trips between rooms it's not that major, but leaving a room for hours can be a problem. So, um, keep nagging if the lights are unnecessarily left on for long periods?

Good luck with the fighting. My sister and I fought like cats and dogs for years, fists and all. It's sadly something that siblings must work out for themselves because outside interference will just make them dig in their heels and possibly hate each other worse. Er, we're good friends now, by the way. There is hope. Try to limit the number of fist fights and pray they'll be friends soon.
Good luck also with the talking. Girls talk. Some studies say a 60,000 words per day vs. a guy's 10,000 or 20,000. I forget the exact numbers, but it was a big difference. Perhaps you could agree that one of you go to another room when you've reached your limit, or perhaps you could get some of those noise-cancelling headphones and listen to some music or something when you're getting too stressed? My mom would often send us outside to goof off and play while she got some quiet time to read on the porch.

 

[Tia Maria]

Rocco, this is an older discussion & you already received a lot of great advice. But here's some more if you want it because well, it can't hurt!

First, you sound like a great Dad! And when I saw this I initially thought that maybe your Aspie tendencies were creating some tension between a potentially excess need for order & quiet etc.., and your young girls needing to be young girls. But after reading your list I thought, Yes, your girls are just being girls, but you are also just being a normal Dad who wants some peace & quiet & minimal order around the house.

I'd highly recommend a parenting book called "1,2, 3 Magic". You are starting late with the girls, but it is never too late. Get & read the book, & I'd read & review the "For kids" version to them. Unconditional love is important for kids. So is some order & consistency.

Overall you must be doing a very good job, & by all measure are raising really great kids! Kudos to you!

Below (in bold face) is my input & suggestions for your consideration:
______________________________________________________________________________

Here are a few rules broken today that I called them on and got several withering stares in return.

Fist full sized wads of toilet paper clogging toilet (1-2 rolls per day!!!!!) -

That is a lot of TP usage, although I can still remember this being a problem in my own household when I was a child & my Dad getting mad at us kids!! Although it seems weird, I would show them what should be an appropriate amount of TP to use per bathroom visit, & also explain about clogging the toilet. Ask their cooperation & hope for the best!

Dragging plates/ bowls across fine wood table. -

You are not asking too much at the ages listed. Just explain (I am sure you already have countless times!) that they are scratching an expensive wood table & must start being more careful & lift their plates up.

Showering in my bathroom -

Tell them (probably again!) that they share at the kids' bathroom, & you have the adult bathroom which they are not to use for showering. Sorry, but that's the way it has to be, so Period, The End. I'd replace the handle with a locked one if needed & keep it locked if necessary. It may be inconvenient but they have obviously made it more difficult for you to keep order in your bathroom (example of the toothbrush) & you are a person too. Explain that to them, your needs count too & you ask that they respect you as you respect them.

(They have their own)

Leaving lights on when not in rooms and back door open. -

I would not nag about the lights, but turn them off yourself. I would tell them that the back door being left open is serious for many reasons & that is a rule which must be enforced & they need to be more careful.

Whining about folding laundry. -

I'd ignore their whines but enforce the chore.

Eating junk food after school. -

I'd keep junk food out of the house altogether, replaced with healthy snack items.

Raising their voices. - Yelling or speaking rudely to each other should be prohibited.Something they can work on with reminders to be respectful & also use their "inside" voice"

Talking INCESSANTLY ( I didn't mention this to them) - that's girl behavior, I'd give them the freedom to be themselves & buy some ear plugs if needed.

Drinking lunch water bottles at dinner/ random times instead of filtered tap water. -

I'd put them away in the garage or wherever & tell the girls not to drink them except for lunch. At dinner I'd have them use drinking glasses filled with your filtered water.

Dirty laundry left in bathroom and hall way. -

I'd ask get each girl a small laundry basket, write their name of initial on the bottom with a marker & tell them to start putting their dirty clothes in their own basket. They are old enough to do this. Only clothes in these baskets will be washed. (Assuming a n adult does the clothes washing. They are actually old enough to also help with laundry.) If they are indeed typical girls, even a this young age they will be upset when something they want to wear is unavailable. The intent is not to hurt or spite them, but to teach the consequences of one's actions or inaction.

Crying with a moaning wail at every dispute between kids
( 20 minutes or longer at times) -

I'd ignore their crying under these circumstances, let them cry if they wish, but & if it goes on too long or too loudly (more than a few minutes), I'd ask them to please move to another room so everyone else doesn't have to be subjected to it.

Making high pitched steaks and squeals that make my ears hurt. -

If they are doing it on purpose then I'd explain that you have physical noise sensitivities that you cannot help so they need to be more sensitive & respectful of others & stop doing this, that it will no longer be tolerated.

If they are just naturally doing this with no intention to annoy you & /or do not even know it hurts your ears ... you should still explain to them you physical sensitivity & ask that they try, & try harder, to be more considerate. I wouldn't make it a strict rule & I'd take out my ear plugs!

If they are actually being really loud, & this is all the time, non stop, I would remind them to use their IN DOOR VOICES & keep the noise down. Also, is there a room they could go to when they want to play or interact little more loudly than what it normal for indoor noise?

Arguing.-

A hard one. Try to get them to start discussing things, & seeing their disagreements from both sides, versus verbally arguing/ fighting. I personally would never allow physical hitting, or intense fighting. However kids do need to start learning to work through some of their disagreements between each other. When they need a mediator they may need to come to you to discuss & look for resolution.

Staying up past 8:45 bed time. -

I'd enforce a bedtime within a short 15 minute window.

On any other day the list may be longer and more severe rules broken. This stuff makes me very very disturbed and upset, I keep it inside mostly. I can't seem to get them to follow many rules.

My husband's parents had "family meetings" to review & discuss things together as a family. The parents led the meetings & also called them when they wanted to discuss issues like some things you mention here. I think it's a great idea.

One caveat to remember is that although each family member is special & important, & everyone's input & feelings are valued, given that the kids are aged 9-12, the adult(s) (YOU) are the leaders & the only ones who are 'in charge'.

I would definitely get the "1, 2, 3 Magic Book" & since they're older, the kids version too, & explain to them at a family meeting that although they're great kids & you are so proud of them, you do need a little bit more cooperation from them around the house.

To be fair they are well behaved outside the house. Get good/ great grades. Make generally good decisions. Are liked by peers and teachers. I feel like it could be so much worse than it is, but that doesn't reduce my frustration with their rule breaking.

Again, you're doing a very good job Rocco & by all measure are raising really great kids! Kudos to you!

 

[raspyaspy]

I realize this was posted months ago and I am not a parent, however, I do feel for you as I'm very afraid of having non-autistic kids. I don't feel very competent with kids, I never liked them as a kid and just saw them all as bullies, it is hard to overcome that fear of constant rejection when I see children. I was also a teenage girl once, though, and have a vivid memory of my experience.

Fist full sized wads of toilet paper clogging toilet (1-2 rolls per day!!!!!)

You said you have two 12 year old girls and a 9 year old. I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet, but girls this age (and it gets younger all the time due to hormones in everything) do have certain "needs", and excessive toilet paper may at times occur. Advise them not to flush tampons, these need to go in the trash as they can clog the plumbing and it would be very embarrassing for them when the plumber pulls them out. Now, toilet paper overuse can be a result of a few things. The quality of the TP in question may be one. Thinner, less absorbent brands may not be ideal for a girl who is menstruating. The opposite problem also happens: someone used to a less absorbent brand will use the amount they used with the better quality TP when it is unnecessary. I would say do not shame them about it but show them about how much they should be using (about 2-3 squares of the good stuff I believe unless desperate times). But also educate yourself a bit on insecure female girls and their needs. It is a really sensitive time for them and they have this need to defend themselves from your attacks and rebel against you, so be careful not to accuse or blame as it will not land well.

Dragging plates/ bowls across fine wood table.

This is a minor annoyance. Ask them to politely stop. Another option is to consider placemats. The mats may also reduce the behavior.

Showering in my bathroom
(They have their own)(

There is likely a reason they are doing this. If they all have 1 bathroom, understand that 12 year old girls spend a lot of time getting ready in the bathroom. For some reason we've moved from giving girls their own vanities to do makeup and hair in the bedroom all to the bathroom, the area they will all fight over. Try to accommodate those needs by giving them a space for these things separate from the bathroom. Additionally, look into what may be more appealing about your bathroom over theirs. What can you do to improve theirs? I would sit down with them and ask them to explain why they are using your bathroom, without blame. Be understanding and negotiate with them.

Leaving lights on when not in rooms and back door open.

I believe my boyfriend also has aspergers, so I have to treat him like a child about this! It is my biggest "pet peeve" (I hate this term as it implies it should be about a dog or something, see: 3rd grade assignment on pet peeves). What works best is subtle. A look, maybe not even that, and do it yourself. Do not say anything. Consistently do this. Eventually, they will catch on and start to nag THEMSELVES. As my boyfriend said the other day while I was shutting off the bedroom light and closing the door he left open, "I WAS GETTING IT! I swear!" I looked at him, confused. "I didn't say anything." "I know," he said, "but I saw the NAG IN YOUR EYES." I hadn't even looked near him. I just have him trained, though he still does this, he corrects it. I used to also nag my parents about this, believe it or not, when I was a kid.

Whining about folding laundry.

There is no way to make folding laundry tolerable, so unless you think of something, accept it. I continue to whine about putting laundry away.

Eating junk food after school.

Teenagers have larger appetites. I would suggest not having junk food around for them to eat. Instead, keep healthier snack options available. If it's not there, it's a lot harder for them to eat it. Be glad they are eating and not starving themselves.

Raising their voices.

Talking INCESSANTLY ( I didn't mention this to them)

This is a battle you are going to lose. I would suggest looking at where they are learning this voice-raising behavior from if it is excessive. It's often mirrored or mimicked.

Drinking lunch water bottles at dinner/ random times instead of filtered tap water.

This also annoys me. But it sounds like a matter of convenience to them. Why do you have the bottles in the house? I would just remove them entirely. But also, just be glad they are drinking water.

Dirty laundry left in bathroom and hall way.

Also sounds like a matter of convenience. I would suggest investing in some additional hampers for your bathroom and discussing etiquette. You might explain that they would probably be embarrassed if the boys/girls (because who knows) they like came over and used their bathroom and saw their dirty underwear on the floor. (I am just thinking of what would have worked on a 13-year-old me)

Crying with a moaning wail at every dispute between kids
( 20 minutes or longer at times)

Making high pitched steaks and squeals that make my ears hurt.

Others answered this well. Kids will be much kinder once they understand they are hurting you. They'll get more creative in getting your attention, but it shouldn't hurt your ears.

Arguing.

My parents came up with an ingenious way to stop or reduce this between me and my twin sister. We argued a lot because she was a pretty self-involved popular kid who was friends with my bullies and I was a socially awkward reject who embarrassed her. My parents tried a lot of things but what finally got us to stop was this:
They made us sit on the couch and hold hands and each of us had to take turns saying nice things about one another before they would allow us to separate.

I really hope more parents try this. If you ever had siblings, you know this is just about the worst punishment you could receive.

Staying up past 8:45 bed time.

When I was 12, I was staying up until 11 or later addicted to the internet or reading books. This seems really normal. Kids will eventually get bored or tire out. I am not the expert on this one!

Btw, I LOVE that you posted this so others can see how difficult the reverse of their issues raising autism spectrum kids is with you raising your girls! I am planning on becoming a parent in about 2 years but really nervous about it.

 

[Tia Maria]

Here is something I had saved & also shared last year with some family & friends.

It is common for modern day kids & teens (adults too, me included!!) to let their minds get over stimulated by electronic gadgets etc... saying they can't sleep while they're reading or watching something that is working against them falling to sleep.

It seems obvious & elementary, but simple tips like these can be very helpful when implemented. And kids usually need some guidance & structure imposed on their schedules.

How Parents Can Help Kids Sleep Better - US News

Want to Sleep Better? Unplug First - US News