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ASD and planning

harry

New Member
My understanding is that most people have difficulties with planning and organizing. We all have. I would like to know what you think are the difficulties that would be more ASD than NT when it come to this:
I once talked with a professional, one that studied the psychology of this topic, who said that a lot of the stereotypes telling us that people with ASD love routine and having very concrete plans. Many people with ASD actually don't love routone that much. Some say that having a concrete olan can ames thing very difficult as such olans can make one very inflexible.
My experience is that people with ASD difficulties seem to find the advice: plan more in your life bad as planning is difficult.
When people make concrete plans on how to do something they can get stuck and not be able to change a plan if something turns out differently than what they planned for.


What are your experiences with this?
What do people want when asking for help?
 
I would like to know what you think are the difficulties that would be more ASD than NT

Its the same for both, labels dont have any use, every individual is different. What do you think?


Chapter 3 already. I wonder what topic will be chapter 4 about.:)
 
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Between 40 - 60% of autistics have a comorbidity with ADHD, which is likely to be a major contributing factor to planning struggles.

And a huge number of people struggle with plans not just ASDers. NTs struggle just as much.
 
My understanding is that most people have difficulties with planning and organizing. We all have. I would like to know what you think are the difficulties that would be more ASD than NT when it come to this:
I once talked with a professional, one that studied the psychology of this topic, who said that a lot of the stereotypes telling us that people with ASD love routine and having very concrete plans. Many people with ASD actually don't love routone that much. Some say that having a concrete olan can ames thing very difficult as such olans can make one very inflexible.
My experience is that people with ASD difficulties seem to find the advice: plan more in your life bad as planning is difficult.
When people make concrete plans on how to do something they can get stuck and not be able to change a plan if something turns out differently than what they planned for.


What are your experiences with this?
What do people want when asking for help?

This topic has a few perspectives and approaches. One has to be cautious with reading the medical and psychological research on autism,...context is extremely important. Infant, child, teen, young adult, mature adult, elderly? ASD-1, 2, or 3? Complicated with co-morbidities? The details of the study are critically important and the conclusions can only be attributed to the specific context and study population,...therefore, may not apply to other contexts and populations. Clearly, in my own life, I have gone through many stages and phases,...and at each point, I was autistic,...but different in some way.

At work, there is a combination of routine (known order of tasks) and chaos (unforeseen, random events that often pull you away from your routine). Life is like this, as well. The key is having a goal to reach. There will always be forces that pull you off your path, but keeping your eyes forward on your goals will also pull you back onto your path. I think this is helpful to remember whether it is getting through a day of work, or having some long term goal such as completing an educational degree, or saving money for a home, car, vacation, whatever. Now day-to-day things,...sure, you can "vegetate" for part of a day,...doing it right now, in fact,...it's a day away from work,....but I have things I need to get done today, as well.

It is not uncommon to have anxiety,...basically, this is a fear of some unknown future. Having a plan and a goal is helpful,...it sets you on your path,...but also realize that there may be more than one path to a goal. Sometimes the path is wide open, clearly visible,...and other paths,...narrow, a bit foggy and nebulous. Often it is also helpful to have some "contingency" plan, or an algorithm,...an "If this, then that" plan. If you've ever driven you vehicle to a known location many times,...then one day, the construction crew is out there doing road repair, and you are forced to detour around, using another path,...it's much like this. You still make it to your location,...probably took you out of your way and took longer,...but you still made it.

Routines are helpful, they tend to reduce anxieties, in general. However, you can't get yourself "locked in",...you can't set them in concrete,... the unknowns, the chaos, the detours will present themselves. You just have to pivot and keep moving.

As far as stereotypes with regards to ASD vs NT and routines,...I think it is just that,...a stereotype. I have many NT's in my life (family, friends, co-workers),...and I know for sure that they are often more stuck in their routines and have more anxiety about them than I do. Are there individuals with ASD that are just mired in their routines and loose their emotional composure when presented with unknowns, chaos, and detours? Probably,...but surely doesn't represent all people with ASD.

As I am understanding more about ASD, in general, I am of the current theory that those with higher intellects are better able to cope with their ASD behavioral tendencies, sensory issues, communication difficulties, can mask better, etc. As such, are less likely to outwardly present as autistic. A bit of a double-edged sword,...good in some respects,...bad in others.
 
As far as stereotypes with regards to ASD vs NT and routines,...I think it is just that,...a stereotype. I have many NT's in my life (family, friends, co-workers),...and I know for sure that they are often more stuck in their routines and have more anxiety about them than I do. Are there individuals with ASD that are just mired in their routines and loose their emotional composure when presented with unknowns, chaos, and detours? Probably,...but surely doesn't represent all people with ASD.
so what is the ASD difficulties here if NTs also need routines?
I think many people with ASD actually dislike a lot about routine (even if it goes against the stereotypes) and I think I know why. When you follow routines you have to worry about something happening so that you can't follow them. If that happens then perhaps the day is ruined (if ya' know what I mean).
But the best option here is not to avoid routines.
The stereotype is that people with ASD love repetition a lot. I see too many people with ASD complaining about too repetitive tasks in order to believe that it's that simple. In fact, I think that most of the issues come from telling people to follow the exact routine every day.



What do you think about this?
One can hear people say that "if you have a person with ASD help him/her to follow a very concrete, very planned routine". It might be bad for unflexible people to only have one plan. NTs might be better at be flexible.

I googled "dislike repetiton" and I found websites mentioning gifted children.
I disagree with their thinking and say that being good at repetitive tasks is a gift.
Isn't being repetitive sometimes a gift?
 
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As I am understanding more about ASD, in general, I am of the current theory that those with higher intellects are better able to cope with their ASD behavioral tendencies, sensory issues, communication difficulties, can mask better, etc. As such, are less likely to outwardly present as autistic. A bit of a double-edged sword,...good in some respects,...bad in others.

This I agree with completely. I do not present outwardly as ASD or ADHD, but I mask characteristics of both. Because of this I have never requested an accommodation of any kind. I have been continuously employed since 1986 despite several career changes, and completed two Masters degrees and a PhD while working full-time. Yet, I was diagnosed with general anxiety disorder and ASD in 2019 as a result of chronic insomnia and sensory issues. So, yes everyone is different.
 
I suspect the term the OP is looking for is "executive functioning". Something you'll find here that varies greatly from one person on the spectrum to another. There are those who have it and use it to their advantage, and those who struggle with it.

I used to teach time management in a corporate environment as an insurance underwriter. Though I doubt this makes me any less autistic than others.
 
so what is the ASD difficulties here if NTs also need routines?
I think many people with ASD actually dislike a lot about routine (even if it goes against the stereotypes) and I think I know why. When you follow routines you have to worry about something happening so that you can't follow them. If that happens then perhaps the day is ruined (if ya' know what I mean).

I think this goes back to the topic of stereotypes of a specific subset of individuals,...either those with significant anxiety issues, those of lower intellects, and those who have yet to understand the idea that there is more than one way to do things, that there are different pathways. Those that are better suited to survival are those who better adapt to change. Your suggestion that "many people with ASD actually dislike a lot about routine." has some truth in it,...I am very much this way. I know many pathways and will quickly and seemingly spontaneously take those different pathways,...just to be different. Specifically, it is this behavior that drives my wife nuts,...and makes me laugh at her,...as I will often do it just for the humor of her reaction. You are also correct in that if you get too wrapped up in a routine,...and then, something comes up that interrupts that routine,...it adds a lot of anxiety and stress. For example, even though my job has a task list, and I am extremely detail oriented, very thorough,...when chaos ensues and I simply don't have the time to do my tasks,...this is quite distressing to me. However, I have to internalize the emotions, focus on my logic and reasoning, and I have to focus on the bigger picture,...when lives are at stake and you have to respond without hesitation,...the tasks can get thrown in the garbage bin,...they suddenly become a low priority. If you are on a life path of education and training for your career,...and God forbid something horrible and unforeseen happens,...sometimes you just have to treat it like a road construction detour,...and then after the dust settles in your life,...back on your path. As I suggested, those with a better handle on their logic and reasoning centers,...the mental discipline to not let the emotions of the situation get the better of them,...those are the survivors and successful people.
 
how is this even possible?

Well, when I was in college I studied
behaviors, mannerisms, and clothes worn by guys who were popular with ladies. I have never had more than a couple male friends, and was a loner. I made incremental changes in myself, successfully mimicking others. Over time I became an expert in masking, and did fine with it until age 61. I experienced a meltdown on the job a few years earlier, and could no longer mask the anxiety. So, here I am three years later.
 
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I'm personally a big fan of routine or having some sort of schedule, it helps me get things done, and keeps me focused, though as you say it can make you inflexible and rigid. Like others have said it really comes down to the individual, some people like to know every detail to plan accordingly and others are free spirited in their approach.
 
I can be incredibly organized. I worked with colour before I retired twenty filing cabinets all colour organized physically and on the computer even cans of ink and paint. people who say us Aspie's we can not be organized, have not met me. that's why I am not a fan of psychology or any of the soft sciences. I always watch peoples manerism's , how they walk do it almost subconsciously. I should not be able to read people either, how wrong they are.
 
Here is my perspective on this. I am personally not particularly wedded to routines. I can't speak for other people so I won't, but I suspect that needing a strong routine is for some people an expression of a much greater need which seems to be very common among autists; The need for control.

In work or daily life, not knowing how to respond to a situation or being uncertain about how things will play out causes me a lot of stress. I am about to graduate from a bachelor's program, and despite being quite anxious in my daily life, I was never particularly anxious in tests, despite the fact that they can make plenty of people freak out. I suspect the reason is that I knew exactly what was expected of me, and what preparatory work I had to partake in to succeed. Of course there is some uncertainty regarding what questions will appear, but it isn't a surprise so you can easily develop mechanisms to help deal with it.

This semester however, I was working on a report for my final project, and despite generally doing well in essays, I completely panicked and failed at writing it in time. It is the worst I have felt since beginning university, and I think it has a lot to do with unclear expectations. Yes, I knew I needed to finish it and sort of what it should be about, but I received practically no instructions on it, and had to rely on a lot of information I didn't know I should have been collecting. I'm also terrible at multitasking and have a hard time asking people for help on their free time, and this all coalesced into a spiral of panicking and feeling lost, which in turn made writing the final report even harder and more daunting. I can be quite methodical when it is required, but this time I didn't know how I should be organized.

Personally, I enjoy simple repetitive tasks simply because they are unlikely to lead into a misunderstanding or expectations I am not equipped to deal with. I suspect it is similar for people who need a routine. It is not about the routine itself, but the routine gives them a feeling of control and certainty. I think a lot of autistic people can thrive in creative fields, but only when they have a lot of knowledge about what they are doing and enough authority/independence to deal with tasks according to requirements.

This need for control or certainty is how I see a lot of my actions (some of which I deeply regret), and I can also see it in my sister who I strongly suspect is on the spectrum. However, I am also quite adventurous when it is on my terms.
 
When I drove to work I was always changing my route, so much for routine. I am big on planning , my personal motto is fail to plan to plan to fail.
weirdly enough just before I retired a new route opened up. to work that saved me about 10 minutes. a considerable saving. so it paid off. took 20 years.
 
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Planning a job is not difficult for me. Having a pen and notepad in pocket allows for notes to be taken at layout and specific things noted. For bigger jobs a 8.5" x 11.5" pad with clipboard is preferred as well as a set of prints. With experience people develop a routine that involves doing specific steps in a specific order but flexibility is necessary for times when all the parts/hardware are not available and pre fab or layout is done elsewhere instead.
 
For me planning is just visualizing a process seeing it's weaknesses determining how to fix them and then just following though, no notes do not tell others as they just get in the way, if they cannot see what I do. Even fixed a process on a automotive assembly plant, full of engineers I can still see what they cannot.
 
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I have certain routines in place that keep things clean and organized at home. Pets and plants on a set schedule. Work at a set time. Errands planned around work, etc...

When it comes to doing things like lists or breaking tasks down. Nope. I lose all motivation to do the thing. Instead, I just do the thing instead of breaking it into a billion little things. I usually do another five things along the way.

My brain just automatically organizes things into a linear flow pattern. It is a handy feature at work.
 

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