Alcohol/Smoking/Et Cetera

[Autistamatic]

Thing is, I also recognise no one owes me anything

They do owe you something - they owe you common decency. Everyone deserves that until they prove otherwise.

 

[Starfire]

Forgive me for my bluntness, but I don't get it. I don't get why people start doing it, and I especially don't get why autists start doing it, in their supposedly more logical thinking.

I think you’re over complicating something that’s really quite simple, people start doing it because initially, it feels so good! It fills a huge void some people have inside and takes away pain or trauma, quells fear, gives comfort, bliss, euphoria and relief where there is none. It’s predictable and reliable in that one knows exactly what to expect every time that drug or drugs are used, and they can recreate how it was the first time every time, almost.

As regards logical thinking, if the choice you have is to go through life carrying a huge and painful burden while suffering isolation, depression etc too, or have relief, it seems more logical to take the relief at the time.

When one undertakes this lifestyle and succumbs to addiction the downsides are seen as an occupational hazard or something that will never happen to me. I doubt horse riders worry too much about a fall snapping their neck, football players don’t think too much about breaking their leg, rock climbers or hikers don’t worry too much about a slip or fall which could put them in a wheelchair for life while they are doing what they enjoy doing. It’s the same pleasure risk logical calculation. No one thinks the bad thing will happen to them even though they know it could.

I was homeless and shooting heroin when I was 19, your age. I had good reasons and it was perhaps no surprise I ended up that way considering my life previously. I’m guessing and I may be wrong, that you’ve had the same sort of difficulties many people your age do but nothing too traumatic or overwhelming or you wouldn’t need to ask the questions you did, because you would already know the answers. That is good for you, but don’t let your black and white thinking cloud your judgement and stop you from understanding other people because you disagree with their choices or allow you any compassion to others who have had the misfortune to experienced a very different life to yours.

 

[TempeFan]

Oh - there have been a few times I had to keep my soda in front of me and close to me because others were trying to spike it. Caught my first ex mother in law trying.

Your mother -in-law? Usually when they do that they are just trying to get more grandbabies. I know this man who took up drinking to dull the pain of an abusive spouse. He ran his car off the road into a field one day and it scared him straight. No one was hurt but his two children were in the front seat next to him and the baby fell onto the floor. He was determined to stop drinking. He even took this pill that makes one sick when mixed with alcohol. He was doing well, except for when his big family got together for the holidays and insisted he toast with them. I smuggled him in some non-alcoholic champagne.
When I went out dancing or attended school functions where alcohol was served, nobody seemed to notice my not drinking, they seemed to be too busy chug-a-lugging themselves to notice me, or maybe being Aspy they were put off by my lack of debauchery, but I didn't pick up on it. They seemed to prefer it, since somebody sober had to drive them all home. When the others were smoking weed in the dorms, they let me hung around. I just sat on the floor at the far end trying to avoid the smoke and watched Saturday Night Live. They didn't seem to mind me not partaking. It was more for them. They seemed to prefer it too, since somebody unbefuddled had to get past security to acquire the munchies. I got a lot more flack for my not smoking. Some workplaces had 2 lunchrooms, the smoking one was always crowded and the non-smoking rarely had more than a handful. Nonsmokers were outcasts. It was like being back in highschool at the nerd table. When they offered me one, I would always say, "No thanks, I quit smoking the easy way. I just never started." When people would try to bum smokes and I didn't have any, they would accuse me of being stingy. Others would keep saying they wanted to quit but kept on smoking. I honestly didn't understand why they kept doing the very thing they said they hated and kept listing all sorts of reasons they hated doing it and could never come up with any thing they liked about it. I didn't realize back then that I was considered weird and anti-social.

 

[Crossbreed]

Your mother -in-law? Usually when they do that they are just trying to get more grandbabies.

Is that a thing...!?

 

[Otenba]

They do owe you something - they owe you common decency. Everyone deserves that until they prove otherwise.

So my health reasons are grounds enough not to be treated with common decency? I'm not a nasty person. I just don't have same fun having priorities as them and that seems to be grounds enough to them to ostracize someone like me. I've asked for help with being able to join in on the things they propose to me (like eating out/drinking) after so many times of being let down due to them not believing that I have the problems I do, and I was told I was not entitled to their help so should expect people to treat me this way. This way of things is so commonplace, I'm surprised you feel everyone is owed something common decency. I suppose they are, until the person decides that they're not.. and it can be over inconveniences rather than the person being a genuinely bad person worthy of avoiding. The message I get from it all is that I'm not worth being friends with because I'm not abled to the same level as them. I appreciate that I could "just forget about them" but they're everywhere in my life, even in family circles. I will keep looking for the ones that don't hate me for being different to them but they are very rare. I know it's a tough call to expect people to question and see beyond their biases so I've stopped getting my hopes up most of the time. Been let down too many times. I wish people wouldn't invite me to stuff when they don't care if I go or not too. It's such backwards logic to me when I'm treated like an outsider any other time.

 

[Autistamatic]

So my health reasons are grounds enough not to be treated with common decency?

Of course not. If anything, the people who treat you differently because of your approach to life due to your health and other concerns, are the ones who are less deserving.
I would treat anyone with the same level of courtesy and basic respect until their behaviour proved them to be unkind, selfish, wilfully ignorant, bigoted or any number of aberrant behaviours which harm others.
My wife has conditions which go up and down so she has good(ish) days and very bad days when her energy and mobility are very low, yet I still have to take people to task for telling her to hurry up or pushing past her in public places, despite her hobbling on crutches.
You are very unlucky to have such un-supportive and unkind people around you. I wish I could change that for you.

 

[TempeFan]

I just don't have same fun having priorities as them and that seems to be grounds enough to them to ostracize someone like me.

I have this friend I met back in the 1980s who is the epitome of a very nice guy. He never had a social life, no health issues and few friends. When this subject comes up, he flat out tells everybody they are welcome to do what they like but it is simply his choice not to put any of that stuff in his body. Back then I didn't realize how unusual it was for someone to think like that. I thought personal habits were an individual's prerogative that everyone made via conscious choice based on knowledge or lack there of. Perhaps he is Aspy. Do you guys think I should ask him?

 

[Autistamatic]

Do you guys think I should ask him?

You could if you think there are significant other indicators. Plenty of NT people have similar views though, whether by personal choice or religious doctrine.

 

[Pats]

@TempeFan & @Crossbreed
My (ex) mother in law - we were at one of their weekly get togethers with everyone drinking and stuff. My mother in law kept making comments about me being a goody goody or whatever because I was not participating. They were all making fun of me and I was miserable. What made it worse was we had left an evening out with my brother and his new wife because my ex wasn't enjoying himself - he wanted to go to his family and then when we left he was saying it was the best night he had had in ages. They were all not very nice people. This same mother in law invited my ex for dinner and I happened to stop by and noticed an extra place setting and then his ex girlfriend (that my mother in law did like) showed up for dinner. Of course, I didn't let my husband stay for dinner. I think it was this family that kind of turned me against drinking. I really try to be fine if someone around me is drinking, but it always makes me think of this family and how they were.
Now looking back knowing about the autism, they probably didn't like MY weirdness and maybe was trying to get me to loosen up. Who knows - that feels like a lifetime ago.

 

[TempeFan]

@TempeFan & @Crossbreed
My (ex) mother in law - we were at one of their weekly get togethers with everyone drinking and stuff. My mother in law kept making comments about me being a goody goody or whatever because I was not participating. They were all making fun of me and I was miserable. What made it worse was we had left an evening out with my brother and his new wife because my ex wasn't enjoying himself - he wanted to go to his family and then when we left he was saying it was the best night he had had in ages. They were all not very nice people. This same mother in law invited my ex for dinner and I happened to stop by and noticed an extra place setting and then his ex girlfriend (that my mother in law did like) showed up for dinner. Of course, I didn't let my husband stay for dinner. I think it was this family that kind of turned me against drinking. I really try to be fine if someone around me is drinking, but it always makes me think of this family and how they were.
Now looking back knowing about the autism, they probably didn't like MY weirdness and maybe was trying to get me to loosen up. Who knows - that feels like a lifetime ago.

When she noticed my weirdness, the woman assigned to raise me made one half hearted attempt to fix me, then just settled on hating and punishing me for being such a worthless lost cause. She never wanted to be a parent and so despised me from the get go. Her drink was Tom Collins and what she enjoyed most about smoking was blowing it in kids faces to make them sick. As an undiagnosed Aspy, I ignored the social cues enticing kids to imbibe and usually just hid under the furniture reading a book.

I've actually seen parents putting vodka and other substances in their toddlers bottles and sippy cups to keep them quiet. That wouldn't work on me. If something tastes wrong, I spit it out. I have an inquiring mind and was compelled to keep on spitting out questions until I learned the way to stop pain in that house was to be not seen and not heard. Instead of a drink or a pill, she gave me a storybook about an autistic maid who always did exactly what she was told, to the literal letter of the dictionary definition, instead of what everybody else wanted and expected - just like I did. Unfortunately, they didn't read the ending before handing it to me. The perfect solution was and still is right there in this popular children's series anyone can get on Amazon, or free at the library. This maid's employers were about to fire her when they noticed she was an excellent cook, and an very competent servant, as well as an incredibly lovely human being. They decided that, since she was the best person for the position, that they would accept her weirdness and let her be part of the family. Then they opted to start communicating in a way that all could understand and everybody lived happily ever after.

This woman chose to marry a man who, due to having had an involuntary vasectomy when injured by a car crash, couldn't father children. She was herself abused as a child and and none of her and her husband's many many family members or friends or neighbors or other members of society (doctors, teachers, civil servants, her husband, herself, etc.)whose job it was to act, lifted a finger to help her. The state was seriously criminal discarding innocent babies into her care, but that's the way of this world. Apparently, she felt herself entitled to her revenge.

 

[Otenba]

Of course not. If anything, the people who treat you differently because of your approach to life due to your health and other concerns, are the ones who are less deserving.
I would treat anyone with the same level of courtesy and basic respect until their behaviour proved them to be unkind, selfish, wilfully ignorant, bigoted or any number of aberrant behaviours which harm others.
My wife has conditions which go up and down so she has good(ish) days and very bad days when her energy and mobility are very low, yet I still have to take people to task for telling her to hurry up or pushing past her in public places, despite her hobbling on crutches.
You are very unlucky to have such un-supportive and unkind people around you. I wish I could change that for you.

Thank you. I'm working on trying to change it, though with some things, it's proving difficult to work out how I can change things. I'm looking for a new job for example, and trying to spend more time with people who are more worthwhile. I'll keep doing my best and I hope things will start to improve in future. I appreciate the chat. Thank you.

 

[Pats]

When she noticed my weirdness, the woman assigned to raise me made one half hearted attempt to fix me, then just settled on hating and punishing me for being such a worthless lost cause. She never wanted to be a parent and so despised me from the get go. Her drink was Tom Collins and what she enjoyed most about smoking was blowing it in kids faces to make them sick. As an undiagnosed Aspy, I ignored the social cues enticing kids to imbibe and usually just hid under the furniture reading a book.

I've actually seen parents putting vodka and other substances in their toddlers bottles and sippy cups to keep them quiet. That wouldn't work on me. If something tastes wrong, I spit it out. I have an inquiring mind and was compelled to keep on spitting out questions until I learned the way to stop pain in that house was to be not seen and not heard. Instead of a drink or a pill, she gave me a storybook about an autistic maid who always did exactly what she was told, to the literal letter of the dictionary definition, instead of what everybody else wanted and expected - just like I did. Unfortunately, they didn't read the ending before handing it to me. The perfect solution was and still is right there in this popular children's series anyone can get on Amazon, or free at the library. This maid's employers were about to fire her when they noticed she was an excellent cook, and an very competent servant, as well as an incredibly lovely human being. They decided that, since she was the best person for the position, that they would accept her weirdness and let her be part of the family. Then they opted to start communicating in a way that all could understand and everybody lived happily ever after.

This woman chose to marry a man who, due to having had an involuntary vasectomy when injured by a car crash, couldn't father children. She was herself abused as a child and and none of her and her husband's many many family members or friends or neighbors or other members of society (doctors, teachers, civil servants, her husband, herself, etc.)whose job it was to act, lifted a finger to help her. The state was seriously criminal discarding innocent babies into her care, but that's the way of this world. Apparently, she felt herself entitled to her revenge.

That's horrible. And back then, no one thought of abuse as being abuse and I guess society just figured anything was better than just putting the child out on the street to die. I'm glad we have family services today, but they still can only do so much and there's never a way of knowing 100% what exactly goes on in people's homes when no one else is looking.