AA sucks.

[Metalhead]

Seriously, people there telling me that because I am an alcoholic, I am automatically the biggest problem in any given situation? Telling me I should apologize to mother and keep dropping my boundaries for her because we do not give up on family in this organization, because after all, we are the only real assholes in any given room?

Forget that.

AA is only for people who want to celebrate self hatred.

 

[thejuice]

If you are an alcoholic its a certainty you have some apologising to do. It's up to you who you apologise to, after an honest reflection on your wrong doings. You can apologise and go no contact if you so wish, or not at all. You can find a sponsor that understands you.

Are there other meetings? Each meeting has a different culture. Some people can be overbearing.

AA is about taking responsibility for your own actions, behaviour and well being rather than focusing on other's faults, because this leads to resentment and resentment leads to the bottle.

You also don't have to be a Christian, that's a common misconception some have.

 

[Metalhead]

If you are an alcoholic its a certainty you have some apologising to do. It's up to you who you apologise to, after an honest reflection on your wrong doings.

AA is about taking responsibility for your own actions, behaviour and well being rather than focusing on other's faults, because this leads to resentment and resentment leads to the bottle.

Telling me I have to make amends to people who sexually abused me when I was a child is taking that way too far.

 

[thejuice]

You definitely don't have to make amends for that.

 

[Metalhead]

You definitely don't have to make amends for that.

Try telling that to my last sponsor. I am the asshole because I am angry I was sexually abused as a child? I should forgive and let it go because I am the asshole? Seriously, NO to that.

 

[thejuice]

I'm sorry im way out of my depth. I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

[tree]

@Metalhead

The quality of the group is dependent
on the people who are in the group.

Sounds like you're acquainted with an AA
group with an inadequate grasp of what
is useful as far as working the program.

 

[thejuice]

I found this. Forgiveness vs Reconciliation:

Forgiving someone is not the same as reconciling with them. You can forgive someone without “making up” and rebuilding a relationship with them. For example, you can forgive someone for breaking your trust, but that does not mean that you can repair the relationship.

Both people are involved in reconciliation, but forgiveness is something you can do by yourself and for yourself.

Is Not Forgiving Someone OK?

 

[the_tortoise]

Seriously, people there telling me that because I am an alcoholic, I am automatically the biggest problem in any given situation?

That sounds like some seriously uninformed presumption and stereotyping was happening. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Telling me I should apologize to mother and keep dropping my boundaries for her because we do not give up on family in this organization, because after all, we are the only real assholes in any given room?

That's ... so much even worse...

Forget that.

AA is only for people who want to celebrate self hatred.

Is that the only AA group you've ever been to?

I ask because I've while I've never been to AA (or NA etc) I have never heard of something like that -- and to echo what @tree said: I've heard from people who found AA helpful that each AA group can be veeeery different.

That said, AA is not helpful for everyone trying to manage or recover from addiction...much like CBT or EMDR for PTSD or specific pharmaceutical therapies work for any number of ailments for some, do nothing for others, and in a small proportion of people may actually cause harm.

 

[the_tortoise]

If you are an alcoholic its a certainty you have some apologising to do

Honest question: Why do you think this?

 

[Judge]

I have to admit, as an autistic person I would have a lot of issues with an agenda that fundamentally emphasizes, "You are wrong, everyone else is right".

A less-than-fair social dynamic that we already must contend with much of the time. One which can cut deep with us.

Not to mention those of us who have been molested as a child, which certainly puts an incredible spin on a methodology so dependent on contrition. In this instance, I think AA needs to be more sensitive in their approach. Certainly a flawed process, but not necessarily one that should prompt you to walk away from the program entirely.

Perhaps to just find another group more understanding of your circumstances and willing to mitigate the policies and methodologies of AA.

Hang in there, @Metalhead.

 

[the_tortoise]

What if Alcoholics Anonymous Doesn’t Work for You?

 

[Metalhead]

I have to admit, as an autistic person I would have a lot of issues with an agenda that fundamentally emphasizes, "You are wrong, everyone else is right".

A less-than-fair social dynamic that we already must contend with much of the time.

Not to mention those of us who have been molested as a child, which certainly puts an incredible spin on a methodology so dependent on contrition. In this instance, I think AA needs to be more sensitive in their approach. Certainly a flawed process, but not necessarily one that should prompt you to walk away from the program. Perhaps to just find another group more understanding of your circumstances and willing to mitigate the policies and methodologies of AA.

Hang in there, @Metalhead.

When I mentioned I felt bad for my cousins that my aunt also sexually molested, somebody from AA told me I did not care about my cousins because I am an alcoholic, I only care about myself.

If he is that way and is projecting, I want nothing to do with that type.

 

[Judge]

When I mentioned I felt bad for my cousins that my aunt also sexually molested, somebody from AA told me I did not care about my cousins because I am an alcoholic, I only care about myself.

If he is that way and is projecting, I want nothing to do with that type.

It might be worth doing some research just to see what you can find in terms of AA's formal explanations of their methodologies, and whether or not they fundamentally accept how trauma can color the whole process.

That it's unreasonable to treat alcoholism by rigidly following only ONE way of approach when there are so many other variables to consider, especially those which involve trauma.

 

[the_tortoise]

I don't understand why it is being assumed that simply by virtue of struggling with addiction or unhealthy/problematic alcohol/substance use, someone must have wronged everyone they know or be to blame for any conflict or falling out with anyone (at least during the time of active addiction or problematic substance use)...

Some people are mean, insensitive or inapproptiate when intoxicated, sure. Some people neglect responsibilities or healthy relationships, sure. Some steal from or beg for money from others to support addictions, sure. BUT:

Not everyone does any of those things.

Some people are functional, secret alcoholics/addicts.

Some people are harmlessly silly and loving without being discomfiting or inappropriate when intoxicated -- or only drink/use when alone.

Sone people with substance use challenges never steal from, never ask for loans or gifts of cash from anyone -- never involve anyone else in their addiction in any exploitative or potentially burdensome way -- or never involve anyone at all.

And even if someone wasn't always nice when drunk or high, there's usually serious pain someone is self-medicating...

And lots of people are victimized, get exploited and abused or assaulted (even worse if that is their pain) while drunk...stepping away from that thought (personal flashbacks)...and will step away after this post.

Stereotyping and projection for sure.

Shaming people for nothing or for being victimized and just assuming addiction = antisocial behaviour is ridiculous and seems like the opposite of helpful.

 

[Judge]

The common denominator I see in such considerations is one critical flaw in AA. It's a support group staffed largely by amateurs- not medical professionals.

In essence I suspect most persons assigned to look after a particular fellow alcoholic can easily be out of their depth with someone whose issues merit professional consideration first and foremost.

When no matter how devoted such persons may be to AA's philosophy, that there will always be certain considerations that are medically beyond the scope- or reach of AA alone. Granted it's a big deal to be mentored by one who has experienced it all themselves. I get that aspect of AA.

However there are some things that are just totally over their head unless they have incurred similar traumas themselves. Even then it may well be beyond one to deal with when you consider the psychological complexities of the human mind.

The good news is that programs like AA exist. The bad news is that they are inherently limited in how they treat fellow alcoholics. When at times such persons may need professional help in whole or in part.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Seriously, people there telling me that because I am an alcoholic, I am automatically the biggest problem in any given situation. Telling me I should apologize to mother and keep dropping my boundaries for her because we do not give up on family in this organization, because after all, we are the only real assholes in any given room?

Forget that.

AA is only for people who want to celebrate self-hatred.

I am thinking that if you are amongst a group of people that are trying to heal, but also still dealing with depression, guilt, rumination, poor self-esteem, etc.... it is likely that this sort of mind set is present. It's only amplified within a group situation due to this phenomenon of a "shared consciousness" that occurs when people gather together with a shared purpose.

I agree that this is not the best way to approach group therapy. It should be a positive experience with positive reinforcement of behaviors.

I understand the concept of "getting things off your chest" and discussing things out in the open instead of burying it deep inside. However, ruminating over mistakes and one's guilt in this situation probably isn't the best approach. Negative thoughts only mire oneself in more negative thoughts. It's not what you do, but rather how you do that is important in this regard.

There is this cognitive bias that "blood is thicker than water" and that one's family should be central within your inner circle of people... your support system. However, you, I, and a lot of other people on this forum know otherwise... we grew up with something totally different... or at least it was internalized quite different.

At some level, I think you just have to forgive their ignorance... they might mean well, but they really haven't a clue.

Take care.

 

[Metalhead]

The common denominator I see in such considerations is one critical flaw in AA. It's a support group staffed largely by amateurs- not medical professionals.

In essence I suspect most persons assigned to look after a particular fellow alcoholic can easily be out of their depth with someone whose issues merit professional consideration first and foremost.

When no matter how devoted such persons may be to AA's philosophy, that there will always be certain considerations that are medically beyond the scope- or reach of AA alone. Granted it's a big deal to be mentored by one who has experienced it all themselves. I get that aspect of AA.

However there are some things that are just totally over their head unless they have incurred similar traumas themselves. Even then it may well be beyond one to deal with when you consider the psychological complexities of the human mind.

The good news is that programs like AA exist. The bad news is that they are inherently limited in how they treat fellow alcoholics. When at times such persons may need professional help in whole or in part.

I got my recovery in addiction centered professional therapy.

 

[JayLapointe]

Seriously, people there telling me that because I am an alcoholic, I am automatically the biggest problem in any given situation? Telling me I should apologize to mother and keep dropping my boundaries for her because we do not give up on family in this organization, because after all, we are the only real assholes in any given room?

Forget that.

AA is only for people who want to celebrate self hatred.

I have been back and forth on how I feel about AA and where I'm at now is that I think AA can be useful for some. Particularly those who's main triggers for drinking are social isolation. But for folks with deeper seated issues, and chemical imbalances AA is not the solution, and can actually become a problem.

I say it can become a problem because AA does gaslight anyone that talks out against AA. It's even built into their daily mantra that "it works for everyone that isn't an absolute lost cause", I paraphrase. AA doesn't acknowledge or incorporate the nearly 100 years worth of advances in the medical understanding and treatment of addiction.

That's where I have a huge issue with AA because as long as they gaslight people into thinking if AA didn't work they are hopeless they are getting people killed.

I spent decades of my life dealing with alcoholism and I've been in and out of AA, detoxs, rehabs, etc. End of the day I needed medication to help rebalance brain chemistry. Once I got that sorted, I was able to work on the underlying stress issues. AA was not what I needed and I never would have gotten sober if I'd believed them, that AA not working for me made me a lost cause.

The causes of and solutions to addiction are both varied and multifaceted. No one solution is going to fit for everyone. AA is a tool that helps some, not all tools work for all projects.

 

[Judge]

I got my recovery in addiction centered professional therapy.

Not surprising. No telling how many addicts out there truly require professional attention as opposed to the good intentions of less-than-gifted amateurs. Reminds me of so many criticisms of Synanon as well...