A New Direction

[Beaglesfly]

My son, who is 13, was diagnosed with Aspergers & ADHD when he was younger. At the time, I saw a few of the AS traits, but moreso the ADHD....so all of my reading, research, etc always revolved around ADHD and the Asperger's got pushed by the wayside.

We've been hitting some rough times with the onset of his adolescence. He and I were talking the other day, and I mentioned the AS diagnosis and some of the traits of Asperger's, and I could tell it struck a chord with him. Going back and reviewing the traits of AS, I see it SO more clearly now....I can't believe that I couldn't see it when he was younger.

I am at a loss now how to even proceed forward. He was in public school, had a 504, and had been doing well enough academically that all of his services dropped off. He started refusing to go to school last year, mostly he would say he wasn't feeling well (I think he was suffering mentally....it was just so much work to keep up in every way in the school). I pulled him from public school late last year and enrolled him and his sister in cyber school (she's NT but super sensitive and shy). He tried for a while, but now he's about given up.

I can't (won't) return him to public school, but there are no autism schools out here in the sticks. So I'm looking for a new direction. I'm not even sure where to start....I've been reading, reading, reading, but I don't know what action to take. I've mentioned going to a counselor or psychologist, but he refuses. He spends all his time in his room watching videos, playing games, or talking with a few internet friends he's made.

Sorry, this was my intro thread and I got carried away!

 

[Beaglesfly]

I just wanted to add that had I known then what I know now (I didn't even know the term "executive functioning skills" until this week), I wouldn't have put him in cyber school as it's a poor fit for him.

He's always had trouble managing time, forgetting things, and planning ahead, but after working with a TSS while in public school, he had come along way. However, I think cyber school was way too big of a leap for him - I just didn't realize it at the time.

 

[Kari Suttle]

I'm a self-diagnosed aspie (my parents agree with it), and i'm in college via the internet. Its not the best option but seeing as i don't drive its my only option (its a long, pretty irrelevant story). I think that it depends on your son, but i agree for those of us with executive functioning issues its very hard. I have issues with motivation and getting started on something. And although i can plan out what i should do when very well (its overcompensation, really) i can never get started with that either. Its not even procrastiantion i don't really know what it is. Once i'm started on something its easy from there, though. Sometimes playing music while i'm doing school work (or getting started with it) helps cause then i'm not as distracted. A schedule helps me too...like if i dedicate "after breakfast/shower/teeth/cleaning bedroom" in the morning i'll start studying up through lunchtime, because i've set that time aside its easier to make myself do it. I'm very schedule/routine based, a lot of aspies are.

Oh and i'm gonna address this head on cause you mentioned it...is he having mental health issues? Cause aspies, for some reason, are prone to things like depression and anxiety. I started having issues in middle school around his age so that's why i bring it up. If he is then he needs to see someone about it...depression kills absolutely any motivation to get out of bed let alone do important things like schoolwork. But that being said, even not depressed i spend loads of time in my room. Its my space, i won't be bothered there, and its a sort of safe haven. Interacting with people is taxing so i like being alone in my room watching anime or whatever.

 

[Beaglesfly]

Thanks Kari Suttle for your response. I would say definitely my son struggles with motivation as well.

I think he may be somewhat depressed, but I couldn't say for sure at this point. He has said that he had very bad depression being under pressure to go to school and that went away when I allowed him to be home. That said, now that he has been allowed to be home for a while and his studies have basically fallen apart, I think he may be experiencing depression for other reasons.

When I brought up the idea of a counselor or psychologist, he said it wouldn't do any good because talking never helps and he doesn't want to take pills. I could tell him that he absolutely has to go but I know when it came to the day of the appointment, it would be an incredible struggle and he would say that he was not feeling well. I'm not sure what to say to get him to see that it might be beneficial to see someone.

Thank you for some ideas about schoolwork.

It seems like there is just so much to address at once. I thought he had made a lot of strides with his TSS worker etc, and I'm sure he did to some degree, but now I look back and realize that he was probably struggling so much inside but was doing what he needed to do to get along. Makes me sad to realize how much he must have been hurting all that time.

I know I need to handle one thing at a time, but I don't even know where to start.

 

[Vanilla]

Welcome

Have you attempted home schooling before? Or is that not a viable option for your son? I might move your thread to the "Parenting & Autism Discussion" area, as you are more likely to have more replies there, than in the "Introduction" section.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I'll always vouch for homeschooling! What specifically is it about school he dislikes so much? And what was so special about the TSS worker? Were they really patient, helped him keep track of tasks, provided the right kind of incentive...?

 

[Beaglesfly]

Thanks for the responses.

As much as I would like to homeschool, I honestly don't think I could handle it. I've always wanted to homeschool my kids, but I'm a single mom, the sole support of the household (father sees the kids sometimes but has mental health issues and doesn't contribute financially or otherwise) and I am stretched thin on all fronts right now. The requirements in our state (PA) are pretty rigorous from what I understand.

The TSS workers did provide some sense of routine to help him remember things, and I'm sure they showed him tricks that would help him remember his homework, etc. But I don't know how much of his improvement in school was from the routine the TSS workers provided or if some of it was just his brain developing a bit more impulse control, etc over time. I know he didn't like having TSS workers as it made him feel different than others.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Eek, point. Single parents should not be expected to perform super-human time management. (I don't see how single moms do it anyway, it's challenging enough when you've got somebody else earning the money and you handle every other aspect of the house.) How much does a tutor cost? Or if it is simply a matter of routine, does he perhaps have an understanding older aunt, uncle, cousin, or grandparent that's home a lot? Or even a neighbor? Once my mom helped me get a routine set up, pretty much the only thing she had to manage in my homeschooling was if I had a question, and of course all the paperwork with ordering books and turning in progress reports to our covering. She did suggest a few times she take my tests back over, she says I graded myself much more harshly than I should have.

 

[Beaglesfly]

I just realized that I forgot to answer why he says he doesn't like going to school.

He finds all of the subjects uninteresting. Unlike some AS kids, my son doesn't have one specific interest that drives him. He's gotten into computers a bit the last year or so, and did really well setting up a server and all, but even that he says doesn't hold his interest long term.

In addition, it takes him longer to get things done than others because of lack of organization, short term memory problems (forgetting his homework, forgetting where he left his papers, etc - though much better than when he was younger), and some OCD issues (he often erases things several times and rewrites them). And then when he falls behind and is pressured to catch up, he hits a frustration wall and shuts down. Pushing him basically immobilizes him.

Now that I am beginning to better understand the things that don't work for him, I could push for a more suitable environment for him in public school, but I think it boils down to the fact that he has no motivation, no desire at this point to do public or cyber school.

He doesn't know what he'd like to pursue in terms of interests or even a vocation, so there's nothing to work towards. He sees school as pointless. And there is nothing I can put him front of him to inspire him, motivate him, reward him, or whatever, to go.

 

[Beaglesfly]

Eek, point. Single parents should not be expected to perform super-human time management. (I don't see how single moms do it anyway, it's challenging enough when you've got somebody else earning the money and you handle every other aspect of the house.) How much does a tutor cost? Or if it is simply a matter of routine, does he perhaps have an understanding older aunt, uncle, cousin, or grandparent that's home a lot? Or even a neighbor? Once my mom helped me get a routine set up, pretty much the only thing she had to manage in my homeschooling was if I had a question, and of course all the paperwork with ordering books and turning in progress reports to our covering. She did suggest a few times she take my tests back over, she says I graded myself much more harshly than I should have.

We started out with a routine, but I think he found the work boring and he lost motivation quickly.

Do you have any trouble with keeping organized or motivated?

 

[Judge]

Do you have any trouble with keeping organized or motivated?

Clinical depression as well as OCD can be comorbid to ASD. If he suffers from chronic clinical depression it might bring his motivation and focus to an occasional standstill. Happens to me in cycles. Something I'd think most any caring parent wouldn't want to overlook.

 

[Beaglesfly]

Clinical depression as well as OCD can be comorbid to ASD. If he suffers from chronic clinical depression it might bring his motivation and focus to an occasional standstill. Happens to me in cycles. Something I'd think most any caring parent wouldn't want to overlook.

Point taken. I have no problem taking him to the doctor or a therapist, finding any kind of help for him in whatever form it may take - he's just really resisting it right now. His father has had probably 50 diagnoses (most misdiagnoses) in his life, and my son sees that as proof that doctors can't help you. He also thinks that pills will make him feel different, not himself.

I've brought it up to him a couple of times lately, possibly going to see someone, and he gets upset to the point of tears and said he won't talk about it anymore. He said that talking things out just doesn't work and that he doesn't want to take any type of medication.

 

[Kari Suttle]

Do you have any trouble with keeping organized or motivated?

Organized, no i've been a bit of a neat freak since i was a preteen (iow for the past decade). Motivated, most certainly. Like your son i never had one overarching interest, it switched from month to month if not week to week. I only did reasonably well in school growing up because i had to, it was what was expected of me. Routine and expectations have always been big for me. The only source of motivation that's ever worked for me is intrinsic motivation; groundings never worked, i never really understood the point of them. I do well went i want to do well, its as simple as that. I am trying in my college work right now because i want to prove to myself i can do it.

I've brought it up to him a couple of times lately, possibly going to see someone, and he gets upset to the point of tears and said he won't talk about it anymore. He said that talking things out just doesn't work and that he doesn't want to take any type of medication.

I've never seen a therapist, but i can see why he might not want to go to one. As much as i really should see one myself, the one thing holding me back (aside from legitimate concerns like time and money and a ride there) is the fact that i don't do well with people on a normal day to day basis so i'm not sure how well i would do with a therapist. Even if they're trained and everything. I get flustered with new people, even if its my regular doctor, and its like my mind draws a blank from the nervousness alone. I'll either forget an important detail or i'll say something that isn't completely true but not realize i misspoke until after the fact. Plus I don't trust people easily.

And to be honest, i wouldn't want medication either. This is moreso my opinion so take it with a grain of salt but I think they hand out medication too readily these days, not everybody needs it. Some do, some don't. Especially in young people, i think medication shouldn't be the first solution. Some antidepressants even have a warning about it in their commercials.

 

[Beaglesfly]

Thanks Kari Suttle for more input. I don't think at this point my son has much intrinsic motivation as there's not anything that piques his interests.

And I appreciate your honest opinion about how you would feel about a therapist and / or medication.

I feel like we're at a stalemate right now. I brought up going to see someone again yesterday, and he refuses. At least he talked to me a little bit more instead of completely shutting down - he thinks he may also be bipolar or schizo-affective. I don't see it, but I do appreciate that he at least talked to me about it, and it gives me something to think about it.

 

[Profmom]

Hi, Beaglesfly.

You've gotten lots of great feedback here.

My son is 12, diagnosed with Aspergers in October. He was diagnosed with ADHD at age 6, but as he got older and we saw how different he still was from other ADHD kids we knew that we were all missing something. After years of significant struggles in school and recommendations by his neurologist (he has epilepsy) and counselor (she's an LPC), we had him evaluated again and he was diagnosed with both ADHD and Aspergers.

Our son experienced significant depression about a year ago and today is the label of "mood disorder" in his litany of diagnoses. It kind of goes up and down, and it cycles with school. During school breaks, he's the happiest kid! He has been bullied significantly at school for years and his teachers are unwavering in how they expect him to behave and learn in their classes. The worse things are with the kids and teachers, the worse his mood and the more often he tries to get out of going to school. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for him. And, as a parent, when things were at their worst it was torture to drop him off at school each day, feeling like we were throwing him to the lions.

Did your son ever talk about being picked on by other kids? Or even the teachers? (Some of my son's teachers use public shaming as a way to get kids to behave. Oh my, not a good thing to do to my son!) Might a different public school provide a better environment? In some places you can have your child bused to another school district, either on your own as a matter of choice, or if he has accommodations that can't be met by the home school.

My smart, sweet kid still gets picked on by kids and put down by teachers and now gets failing grades and suspensions for acting out. Homeschooling is not an option for us and the nearest autism school is one hour away. We checked it out but can't afford both the commute and tuition. We have hired an advocate and are in the process of gearing up for what we know will be a fight with the school. (We've been through this twice before with virtually no change. The 504 he has is meaningless.)

I would really worry about possible depression. My son is a sharer, always has been, but he had been holding back and we learned the degree of his depression when he talked with a counselor. We started going to the counselor in 5th grade because he had become such a "behavior problem" that we had to show that we were making an effort to "remedy" the situation. So, he had no choice, and he was younger so more easily managed in that way. It's been a gift to us; my husband and I have a half hour with the counselor to brief her on his week and get advice after venting, and then the second half hour my son goes in and he has the choice of having us stay or going on his own. He chooses to have us with him about half of the time. Once he started he really liked it. We have a great counselor who works with kids of all ages, and we told her right off the bat that we weren't going to add any medications to what he takes for his seizures, and she has totally respected that and not gone down the preaching meds path.

Looking back, I wish we had caught the warning signs of his depression earlier. Fortunately, he didn't harm himself, but we didn't "see" it until he was deep in a hole and making suicidal comments and threats. We had months of constant supervision and him without a bedroom door before we could breathe a little easier. I'd never in my wildest dreams imagined how much joy it brought to me to put a door back on my child's bedroom!

Please take care, both of your son and yourself.

 

[Beaglesfly]

Hi, Beaglesfly.

You've gotten lots of great feedback here.

My son is 12, diagnosed with Aspergers in October. He was diagnosed with ADHD at age 6, but as he got older and we saw how different he still was from other ADHD kids we knew that we were all missing something. After years of significant struggles in school and recommendations by his neurologist (he has epilepsy) and counselor (she's an LPC), we had him evaluated again and he was diagnosed with both ADHD and Aspergers.

Our son experienced significant depression about a year ago and today is the label of "mood disorder" in his litany of diagnoses. It kind of goes up and down, and it cycles with school. During school breaks, he's the happiest kid! He has been bullied significantly at school for years and his teachers are unwavering in how they expect him to behave and learn in their classes. The worse things are with the kids and teachers, the worse his mood and the more often he tries to get out of going to school. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for him. And, as a parent, when things were at their worst it was torture to drop him off at school each day, feeling like we were throwing him to the lions.

Did your son ever talk about being picked on by other kids? Or even the teachers? (Some of my son's teachers use public shaming as a way to get kids to behave. Oh my, not a good thing to do to my son!) Might a different public school provide a better environment? In some places you can have your child bused to another school district, either on your own as a matter of choice, or if he has accommodations that can't be met by the home school.

My smart, sweet kid still gets picked on by kids and put down by teachers and now gets failing grades and suspensions for acting out. Homeschooling is not an option for us and the nearest autism school is one hour away. We checked it out but can't afford both the commute and tuition. We have hired an advocate and are in the process of gearing up for what we know will be a fight with the school. (We've been through this twice before with virtually no change. The 504 he has is meaningless.)

I would really worry about possible depression. My son is a sharer, always has been, but he had been holding back and we learned the degree of his depression when he talked with a counselor. We started going to the counselor in 5th grade because he had become such a "behavior problem" that we had to show that we were making an effort to "remedy" the situation. So, he had no choice, and he was younger so more easily managed in that way. It's been a gift to us; my husband and I have a half hour with the counselor to brief her on his week and get advice after venting, and then the second half hour my son goes in and he has the choice of having us stay or going on his own. He chooses to have us with him about half of the time. Once he started he really liked it. We have a great counselor who works with kids of all ages, and we told her right off the bat that we weren't going to add any medications to what he takes for his seizures, and she has totally respected that and not gone down the preaching meds path.

Looking back, I wish we had caught the warning signs of his depression earlier. Fortunately, he didn't harm himself, but we didn't "see" it until he was deep in a hole and making suicidal comments and threats. We had months of constant supervision and him without a bedroom door before we could breathe a little easier. I'd never in my wildest dreams imagined how much joy it brought to me to put a door back on my child's bedroom!

Please take care, both of your son and yourself.

Thanks profmom for your response. Sounds like we have a few things in common - we have an autism school here, but like you, it's an hour or so away. My son also had a 504 - it was an absolute fight to even get that when he was younger and the accommodations it provides are sparse.

Yes, my son was picked on and bullied in school. I'm quite sure also that some of the teachers immediately judged him as being a "bad kid" because of some of his typically AS behaviors. Even when he got into fights only defending himself, he would be punished along with the aggressor.

I am sure that caused depression in him; he's told me as much.

But he no longer is in that environment, and I know a lot of his depression subsided because of that.

When I hesitate on wondering whether he currently is experiencing depression, it's because I consider that I am looking at it from a NT perspective and I don't know how valid my perception is. To me, being in my room most of the time just playing on the computer and talking with online friends would be fun at first, but would get old after a while....and I would THINK it would be a source of depression in itself, but I don't know if that's true of AS teens.

I don't know if I'm expressing all that I want to. I feel more confused today than a few weeks ago. I just want my son to be happy, but I don't know what that means in terms of my perceptions & expectations and his perceptions and expectations.

 

[Profmom]

Beaglesfly,

I totally get it. We only learned of our son's depression through counseling. We had no idea. In a million years we wouldn't have been able to spot it on our own. We are learning to spot signs of increasing anxiety or depression: he starts staying up later (in his room, but reads, does origami, or plays with legos), sometimes into the early morning hours; he is quiet at times that he is normally very talkative (like car rides); and he seems more agitated, which leads to arguments and, at school, outright fights. Once his counselor gave him the ability to express what he was feeling, things got a little easier. He didn't know how to talk about how he was feeling at first, so she gave him lists of feelings and thoughts that he could circle (and he did) and it grew from there. Still, though, she is kind of like a voice for him because we miss things sometimes.

We had it easy, though: he was 10 when he started counseling and he knew that he had to go as a condition for not getting worse punishment at school for his behavior. He also had a new person to chat about his interests with (he loves to talk), and he got to play on his Kindle for the half hour that my husband and I met with the counselor.

Most teachers don't like our son. They get really frustrated, predictably by early October. I get it. But the response should be patience and support resources, not suspensions, a desk in the corner of the room, and being "allowed" to be the janitor's helper during class to get him out of the classroom. Ugh!

School breaks are great. Everybody's happy!

 

[tree]

Beaglesfly