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Why Men Are Walking Away From Dating

@Neonatal RRT

If we move towards an extinction event for humanity due to anti-natalism, you'd expect two intermediate stages:

1. Cultures/societies that are pro-natal will start to replace the ones that have chosen "cultural alt-F4"
2. If (1) doesn't kick in quickly enough, and the population keeps shrinking (say at a global TFR of 1.0) the infrastructure will gradually fall apart, and the remnants will enter a classic SciFi "post-apocalyptic scenario" as that happens

(1) is still possible, because there are still cultures that haven't been subverted. But that may not be true in 10 years.

(2) will necessarily profoundly influence the cultural/societal devolution towards universal anti-natalism. Societal anti-natalism is a luxury behavior, which cannot continue far into (2), so it there will probably be a "reversion to the mean" /lol.
With the usual over-correction that humanity (at any scale) appears unable to avert.

It would be entertaining to watch ... but not to participate in :)


There's another view though:
What seems to be happening is that many more women choose not to have children, but those that do have more-or-less the same number of children as in the not-too distant past (so adjusted down for higher survival rates, but otherwise typical).

If that continues, and either that behavior continues down the generations, or "lessons are learned", the TFR flatten out, then go back up past 2.1.

In that case, there would be a gap of perhaps two generations where there was a shortage of workers, biased towards the low-end of the labor market. The usual example is low-end care workers.

But fortunately from both an economic and infrastructure maintenance perspective, there are plenty of "spare" people who, with training, could be slotted into the roles that would otherwise be unfilled.

Given that most "economically inefficient" people are, on aggregate, just as smart as everyone else but less well-educated, and contributing little economic benefit per capita to an "under-developed but developing" economy, there's an obvious bridging solution.

It's also going to be wildly amusing watching that discussion.

Is the US capable of dealing with the insanity of its highly polarized, irrational, inherently contradictory political debate? It's managed such turnarounds before, so I think it's possible.

My part of Europe could do it, though unevenly: most countries will mess it up at first.

But that's still only about 10% of the world population. You'd hope the intermediate cases could do the same thing using their own populations.

An interesting side effect of such a scenario: it could be used to achieve a really large reduction in poverty over a couple of generations.
Agree, and to further cloud this discussion, we are racing as fast as we can to an AI and robotic workforce...in all fields. At it's current exponential pace, both the rapid development of robotics and AI will consume the human workforce as we know it. Will there be other opportunities for human employment...robotics repair? Likely, but my sense is that this will be temporary.

Sure, the GDP of nearly every industrialized nation will 10X, if not more. Sure, the costs of production will drop precipitously, and sure, everything will become significantly less expensive. Which then begs the question, "Well, if humans do not have jobs and have a steady income, then who is going to purchase goods and services?" If people cannot purchase anything because they have no money, then all of this 10X GDP goes out the window...none of it will happen. It's my sense that we, the world, will have to consider a universal basic income. Which then begs the question, "Who is going to pay the taxes to support that program if there aren't people working?" Ultimately, I think that will come from a corporate tax...because there is no other sources to tap at that point. Basically, we are looking at a complete overhaul of our current economic system.

Furthermore, with all of this in the background, how does this effect the human condition? A lot of people get up in the morning with a purpose in life, something to do, a career...and their personal identity is tied to that career, myself included. What happens to an entire population of bored people? Will this open up more time to focus upon family? Will there be enough income to travel? Will people live in poverty? Will nobody live in poverty? What about education? Much of our education is in preparation for basic job skills. Will our educational system change significantly?

All of this will hit the world like a tsunami wave very, very soon...a complete disruption in all that we know. Be prepared to quickly adapt and overcome. That train has already left the station and is rolling down the tracks at high speed.
 
the birthrate has declined a lot in the US significantly

This is an interesting and related point. While a declining birthrate can be attributed at least in part to fewer people getting married or living in committed long term monogamous relationships, it also must be attributed to how radically society has changed in the developed world since before the Baby Boom Generation and since the move away from an agrarian and rural base.

Prior to the Baby Boom Generation, large families were the norm. Families, especially farm families needed workers to help with farming or other types of family businesses. Children were raised to be expected to help with the work that the family required; children actually contributed to the work that was required of the family to exist.

Some years back on a forum I posed this question asking Millennial and Gen Z members to answer: "Can you list examples of how YOU personally contribute to the work that's required within your family? Daily Chores, etc?" There were no responses at all. Crickets.

From a family labor perspective (e.g. household chores, outdoor chores, etc), children of generations prior to the most recent ones contributed their labor to the family; they pulled their own weight. That hasn't been the case for a few generations now. Rather than children being an asset from a family labor perspective, they're a drain on family resources with no contributory offset. I believe this is one reason that birthrates have declined in the "Western world".
 
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While a declining birthrate can be attributed at least in part.....
In western civilisation there is one huge factor that controls birth rates, and that is what people think the future will hold for any possible children. The Australian Government just recently discovered this by issuing bad policy.

Our birth rate had declined over many years, and for some reason our government decided we need a bigger population than what we already have. To counter the drop in birth rates we increased our immigration intake dramatically. From 2016 to 2022 our population jumped from 23 million to 27 million but during this time our local birthrate almost completely stopped.

In 2022 we had a change of government and a change of policy with immigration intake numbers slashed to almost nothing. Now the local birth rate has increased again.
 
For a young person like me it's rather obvious why the birth rate is lower than it used to be. Is it really a bad thing that we wait until our 30s to have offspring? I don't think so. Treating children like cheap labour is also a thing of the past. Contemporary western world isn't that of cheap labour, but of education. We're going to have almost every cheap labour robotised sooner or later.

Another thing is that people just don't date now. They don't want to and that element is worse. Even asked out by a nice and good looking person many shy away or don't notice or aren't even interested in the pickup... because we've gone too digital, I suppose, and lost interest in having fun with friends, when there is netflix and computer games... I ain't gonna date either when nobody suitable is around and all people I meet are people from very different socioeconomic background and without the neccesary social skills for a relationship (listening, compromising, dialogue). Not a date, but I tried to set up a meeting with an acquaintance. She made post she is looking someone to play board games with. So far so good. But it turns out that the only possible time is tomorrow. Then she writes again and again tomorrow. Because she wants to, no other options. You can't plan anything with her and it has to be her way of the highway.

Add to it all the movements like portraying the sexes as being enemies. I have met that quite a lot, although I'm in a quite nerdy or "leftist" social circle that has many people who are chronically online.
 
Some of the women here have said that they are not impressed by wealth or male shapeliness. If I was single, I must confess that I would not reject a cheerleader physique if she was otherwise compatible. Said physique, alone, would not seal the deal, however.
 
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Some of the women here have said that they are not impressed by wealth or male shapeliness. If I were single, I must confess that I would not reject a cheerleader physique if she were otherwise compatible. Said physique, alone, would not seal the deal, however.
People often look for people who are alike, that's what I took away from the conversation. Clothing and spending habits reflect how relatable someone is.

Money is attractive if someone wants to work less ;) And if they like expensive things, which wasn't the case for the ladies here. Travels and fashionable clothing aren't fun if you're autistic amd easily have sensory overload.

From my anecdotal observations, it seems like women are much less into looks and more into if the person is likeable. For all sexual orientations. Interestingly, this pattern is also perserved in the gay community. Gay men are much more into looks than heterosexual women. Lesbian women are more into personality than a straight man.

Said physique, alone, would not seal the deal, however.
Yes, exactly. The person has to be likeable. As simple as that. You spend time with a spouse, they have to be someone you like.
 
@Crossbreed

Preference falsification - Wikipedia

This applies to all "relationship" types (**), and specific biases are "category dependent".

If you take three major factors (two are subjective, and slightly entangled):
Resources; Attractiveness; Personality;

When it's tested at scale, XX and XY preferences are ordered differently.
And, unsurprisingly, match "historical" expectations.

When people are asked, particularly in front of peers, some of the sequences are different.

(**)
"Relationship" in this case meaning something like: "pair- and other functionally equivalent interactions (e.g. poly)".
And excluding something like a "situationship"

The old words don't work well any more, and the new ones are only used in small niches.
The common partial substitute(s) aren't ideal. For example "Life Partnership" sounds plausible, but it implies a degree of permanence that's fairly common, but only true in perhaps 50% +/- 5 cases - so there are too many exceptions for it to be useful.
I'm waiting for this to become a battle in the language war, but so far nether "side" has prioritized it :)
 
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When I was in my teens some older people gave me wize advice not to rush into dating as there is plenty of time. I am now in my early 50's.
 
XY are APR, and less falsification.

Someone else can do XX :)
"Like a gold ring in a pig’s snout
is a beautiful woman who shows no discretion." -King Solomon
Proverbs 11:22 NIV
(It is true of us guys, too. 🐽)

I am definitely PAR, though there has to be some personal attraction.
 
Nice quote! I'm used to "lipstick on a pig", but as of now it will be "gold ring" :)

I'd expect the importance of A and P to change with age. That's also true in my case.
There might be an ND/NT split though.

There's another interesting difference that I'll share if we get any input on XX priorities.
 
the birthrate has declined a lot in the US significantly
The West is lucky China sabotaged itself with it's one child policy, capping it's economic potential and creating massive social instability. It may have been the dominant world power by now if it was able to close the technological deficit to USA and NATO. They will begin cutting that competitive disadvantage by reclaiming Taiwan for it's hi-tech industry.
 
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