What Would You Do?

[Daydreamer]

I was discussing school memories with a friend of mine recently whilst we shared anecdotes from the past. One of the moments I mentioned was when a teacher of mine asked me a question concerning morality.

"Let's say that you're in a supermarket and you witness a mother with her young child. She steals a few food items, such as a few carrots or some grapes for their child to eat. What do you do?"

The teacher then proceeded to call on students individually, asking for their answer. Everyone essentially gave the same response of "I would report it to management", until it was my turn.

"You'd also report it, right?" the teacher asked. I shook my head in disagreement. She looked at me with a great deal of bewildered shock. It was clear that she had become rather weary with boredom listening to the same reply repeatedly, and it was fairly entertaining seeing her suddenly jolt back into focusing. "Wait, so, you wouldn't report it?" the teacher inquired.

I explained my reasoning, how I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the mother was struggling financially, and whilst these actions are technically illegal I can tolerate someone who finds it difficult to support themselves and their children acting in such a way more than if it was someone who is well-off. Tracking down the manager just to report a minor theft done by a family who might be in a bad place seems rather insensitive and cruel if you ask me.

Of course it would be an entirely different matter if they stole a TV, but I think a few grapes or carrots is understandable. In fact, there are some supermarkets here that have open stalls with fruit and/or vegetables on (often oranges) with a sign that says "Free for kids". The idea is usually to promote healthy eating in struggling families, and occasionally on those signs there are also tips on saving money on your shop. Now and then there are leaflets next to it about such things.

Anyway, I had a discussion with my teacher about it and she thought that my answer was incorrect, so we had a bit of a debate about morality. Mainly if it should be objective (i.e. this is the law, no exceptions) or more on a case-by-case basis. It was actually a fairly interesting conversation, although I get the impression that people just wanted me to say the expected answer rather than give my actual opinion on the matter. That's a bit of a trend in my stories about school I'll admit, knowing what I'm supposed to say but bringing up my case for the opposite anyway. *Laughs* Teachers were not impressed.

 

[TheFreeCat]

I would not report it. Here is why.

When people violate social norms, there are reasons. It is so complicated, I cannot even try to understand. Are they hungry or just sociopathic and feel rules need not apply to them? Did they get permission from the manager because the child is cute? Are they part owner of the store?

All these things could be a possibility.

Further , and most obvious, this would require me to TALK to the manager. No thanks. If I told him what I saw, then my relationship with him changes. Now when I go in, he will "know" me. He will either like me (if she was seen as stealing) or dislike me and think me a prude (if they had some kind of agreement or know each other well).

If you have autism, how often do we "get" the scenery, even when we take great pains to do so? I find it always blows up in my face.

So no........You may steal food in front of me.

Now if she was hurting her kid? Different story. If she were knocking stuff over or turning up the music full blast and doing things that annoyed everyone? Then I would try to do something to stop that kind of thing. But a few grapes? Chomp on, Lady.

 

[Pats]

Would not report it, and if I was able, would probably buy some other groceries to hand to them outside the store.
I was at Goodwill once and I had a large dollhouse in my buggy that I thought would be neat to have at the house for my granddaughters. Another child with her babysitter seen it and liked it and I heard the babysitter tell the child that they just came to look and were not buying anything. I checked out, bought the house and told the cashier to give it to the little girl.
There have been times in my life that I should have been homeless and hungry, but (as I stated in a different post, plans were already made to take care of me), so I've never been hungry or homeless - not by my own doing. Because I've been so fortunate, if I see someone in need, if I can at all - I want to help. I used to keep some cash tucked in my visor in the car to have if I ran across someone that needed it. I need to go back to doing that.
Does anyone remember David Bowie's song "God knows I'm good"? That was always very touching to me.

 

[Mr Allen]

Thing is, technically it would be more expensive than the items are worth for the company to start legal proceedings against the person "on the nick", but the law's the law, places like Asda (Walmart in America) nearly always prosecute in this case.

 

[Mattymatt]

Very few issues are so black and white. Without knowing the totality of the circumstances, I would be unable to pass judgement.

 

[Theta.G]

In this case doesn't matter who it is, i wouldn't rat.

They take something that costs the company 0.000000001% of their income. Yet the company allows much more than that to go to waste. Not just produce but any groceries with visual defects. Most of which are perfectly fine.

A) You tell the company so and so stole something. This person finds out it's you and now you have a much bigger problem on your hands. You were there for the company... but realize, they're not going to be there for you when you need it. You will be blamed by the thief for all their problems following the incident.

This is a lose, lose, lose situation.
The time the manager spent dealing with this is more valuable than the food that was stolen. person gets in trouble with the law. Your time gets wasted and you may have a target on your back now.

B)You see someone steal something. As you ignore it and go about your business... the company won't even bat an eyelash and you go about your life without issue surrounding this scenario. The mother feeds her cub.

Win, win, win
Even for the company.

Fire your teacher lol!

 

[Judge]

For me there is only one conclusive answer in such an equation:

That there are any number of acceptable alternative moral responses under this less-than-clear scenario.

 

[Fino]

I tend to assume people only do what they feel they have to because that's how I am. With issues like this, I've always had my explanation as, "If someone stole my car then I guess they needed it more than I do because I wouldn't be willing to steal a car."

I know by now that it's not really a good thought because turns out people aren't like me. People suck.

But anyone who supports reporting a mother with a child stealing fruit kinda grosses me out. A major corporation lost a few cents. Why would that bother anyone?

The only argument I can think of would be philosophical, involving absolute morality and slippery slope, but that's all bs.

What grade was this? I can't imagine this many morons being in one room.

 

[Mr Allen]

Most of the major Supermarkets have big 6'10" 300 lb Security guards. but even they're not infallible against the people who go on the nick in ASDA on a daily basis.

 

[Bedlamite]

To address the hypothetical example that your teacher expressed, what was there to report? After all, most all supermarkets have the same trays of available fruit items free to children. The underlying theme here was the "progressive programing" being conducted by a social engineer (your teacher). Free thinkers and people that consider their own minds to be soverign, would never "answer correctly" to the "norm" that this teacher was attempting to indoctrinate into her students. You can find these types of "culture changing" methodologies throughout all of our contemporary society.

I could give many examples how I have, over my many years, exercised my "soverign mind" way of life. But here is one example that involved a whole community. I once lived in a POA (property owner's association) in Virginia. It was a very rural area where people were able to hunt on their own property as long as all hunting regulations were followed. I was appointed by the executive board of the association as the "head of security" for a few years. One summer I was approached by a home/property owner about one of the locals hunting out of season. I did not know this hunter nor was he a resident of the association. So, I asked around locally to gain a little information about this guy and the people in the area told me that he was unemployed due to a handicap and he and his family were "extremely" poor. Everyone I gained information from was of the same mind - we all looked the other way. This guy, hunting out of season, was merely providing meat on the table for his family.

Fortunately, you can still find this kind of "soverign mind" type of free thinkers here in America despite the fanatical "culture changing" zealots occupying prominent positions in our society.

Daydreamer, I commend you for your moral stance!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Daydreamer]

What grade was this? I can't imagine this many morons being in one room.

I believe this would've been in year ten of Secondary school. The students were around fourteen or fifteen years old at the time. Personally, I think that most students simply gave the answer the teacher wanted because they weren't engaged in the conversation, and just wanted it to end quickly without any confrontation. That's mere speculation though.

 

[Fino]

I call 12-16 the devil's ages so that makes sense.

 

[Judge]

In terms of loss control, I suspect you'll find many retailer grocers who might candidly admit that the cost of daily fruits pilfered by legitimate customers is probably built into the existing price of such items to begin with.

It never fails to amaze me to observe people who "sample the goods" before buying them. In this respect this scenario happens all the time. Yet there is never any intention to prosecute or even approach such customers. And then how about the mothers that actually feed their kids in shopping carts only to approach the checkout stand with a crumpled package to be scanned? Basically retailers seem to tolerate this as well.

More reasons to load that many more variables into the equation. To admit that there is no single conditional response to such a scenario.

Unless of course the lesson is nothing but a veiled attempt to discourage kids from intentional shoplifting. In that respect perhaps a better lesson would have been to simply chronicle what happens to a minor who is formally charged with shoplifting. From the theft of an item to their sentencing in court.

 

[Pats]

I tend to assume people only do what they feel they have to because that's how I am. With issues like this, I've always had my explanation as, "If someone stole my car then I guess they needed it more than I do because I wouldn't be willing to steal a car."

I know by now that it's not really a good thought because turns out people aren't like me. People suck.

I also have a tendency to think that way. Have always said "If someone steals it, they must need it more than I do". I know people can suck, but I still prefer this way of thinking.
I remember once I had gone into a craft store with my 18 month old in a stroller. When I got to the car and took him out of the stroller, there were a few small skeins of embroidery thread in the stroller, all wet and slobbery. I went back in and paid the lady for them. She said I didn't have to but them, but I said, yes, I did - they were pretty wet and no one else was going to want them. Nice lady - she's one who would have looked the other way.

 

[Fino]

I also have a tendency to think that way. Have always said "If someone steals it, they must need it more than I do". I know people can suck, but I still prefer this way of thinking.
I remember once I had gone into a craft store with my 18 month old in a stroller. When I got to the car and took him out of the stroller, there were a few small skeins of embroidery thread in the stroller, all wet and slobbery. I went back in and paid the lady for them. She said I didn't have to but them, but I said, yes, I did - they were pretty wet and no one else was going to want them. Nice lady - she's one who would have looked the other way.

Yes, I still think that way all the time! I know it's not always right, but I do it anyway! I don't need to always be right.

 

[Moomin]

I’d like to think that I’d do something, considering how honest I am as a person: I bought a cookie once that had another stuck to it. The cashier didn’t notice until I said it to her. She was confused as to why I had said it. Go figure. Or that time we found a wallet with a few euros in it. My mom and sibling were all for keeping it but I made them give it in. However, I’ve seen people steal a few grapes before and have never said anything. Depends on the circumstances...

 

[Pats]

I’d like to think that I’d do something, considering how honest I am as a person: I bought a cookie once that had another stuck to it. The cashier didn’t notice until I said it to her. She was confused as to why I had said it. Go figure. Or that time we found a wallet with a few euros in it. My mom and sibling were all for keeping it but I made them give it in. However, I’ve seen people steal a few grapes before and have never said anything. Depends on the circumstances...

I'm also an honest person and could never steal something myself. My ex (who later I learned was a con artist) used to get furious at me for being so honest, even making him take the time to return a library book before we moved.
Once someone had taken a bassinet that had been loaned to me. They denied taking it so I told them I would give them this nice canopy baby bed that I had if they would let me have the bassinet so I could return it to the owner. They did. And, yes, many would think that was a dumb move, but there are some things more important to me than material things.
The only difference in what you said and how I am is that I am harder on myself than I am others. I can accept other people's mistakes easier and with more understanding and forgiveness than I can myself. I might not be able to steal something, but understand if someone else does. Does that even make sense?

 

[Graphin]

I believe this would've been in year ten of Secondary school. The students were around fourteen or fifteen years old at the time. Personally, I think that most students simply gave the answer the teacher wanted because they weren't engaged in the conversation, and just wanted it to end quickly without any confrontation. That's mere speculation though.

That's actually what I do, it turned out to be much better for me if I tell what the teachers want, few teachers actually want us to think and discuss for ourselves.
The important thing is to distinguish between those teachers and how they change.

I would not do it - laziness, social anxiety. I do not like many ways supermarkets do business and handle food.

The important thing for me is, I already paid the food for them, the losses of the supermarket are covered with what I pay. As such, the interests of the Supermarket kinda align with mine if we are talking about significant amounts of money.

 

[Graphin]

I do not know the context of the question, but to me it seems like the behaviour of your teacher was very inappropriate

 

[Moomin]

I'm also an honest person and could never steal something myself. My ex (who later I learned was a con artist) used to get furious at me for being so honest, even making him take the time to return a library book before we moved.
Once someone had taken a bassinet that had been loaned to me. They denied taking it so I told them I would give them this nice canopy baby bed that I had if they would let me have the bassinet so I could return it to the owner. They did. And, yes, many would think that was a dumb move, but there are some things more important to me than material things.
The only difference in what you said and how I am is that I am harder on myself than I am others. I can accept other people's mistakes easier and with more understanding and forgiveness than I can myself. I might not be able to steal something, but understand if someone else does. Does that even make sense?

Same for me. My mom and sibling were very annoyed at me. THey kept calling me “holier than thou” “white knight” words that were meant to be insulting but I know what I did was right.

I’m probably going to sound silly but it has taken me a while to see black gray and white. When before I could only be very black and white in my thinking. I still have issues with this, so obviously haven’t improved as much as I hope. But I also think that I feel I can be honest, why can’t someone else?

And yes it make sense...