What Does Reading Facial Expressions Really Mean?

[Granta_Omega]

I've noticed that people talk about difficulties understanding facial expressions with autism a lot, but I don't really know what it means to necessarily be able to read a facial expression. I can typically understand very expressive ones when people go over the top, such as when someone is grinding their teeth, they are mad, or when someone is smiling and showing teeth, they are happy. I also understand when people drop their jaw, they are shocked or surprised. However, those seems rather obvious, because they are making it a point to communicate what they are thinking and feeling.

I don't understand how anyone can really interpret a casual or subtle facial expression though. How can people expect anyone to read minds with facial expressions that aren't obvious?

When they mention people who have trouble reading facial expressions, are they usually talking about every facial expression, or just certain ones?

 

[King_Oni]

I'm terrible at facial expressions, so the entire notion of reading them fails big time with me. Or, as a more appropriate expression "it falls flat on it's face".

But as you mention, the really obvious ones, those aren't hard to miss I guess. Someone dropping the jaw seems pretty obvious, but then again, I think it has to do with the fact that such an expression is a significant expression, rather than a subtle change in eyes, mouth or other parts in the face.

What's interesting though, is that I'm so bad at facial expressions that I'm even terrible at expressing them. I've had sessions with therapists and I threw them off cause my face gave them a different expression as to how I was feeling. So that's an extra issue that comes with it. Not only do I fail in reading them, people fail in reading me as well (and those are the NT's I'm talking about).

As for the type of expressions; I don't think there's a list to see which ones you can and can't read. From my understanding, especially with tests, they come down to facial expressions on pictures and you have to put the correct emotion with said picture. If you're unable to do so pretty consistently (there's a test where you only see a set of eyes and they express something; think it's 36 pictures, and from what I'm reading about it, scoring between 22 and 30 is normal below 22 is the cut off that you're not so good at reading emotions; I remember scoring 4 out of 36 at one time).

The test can be checked out here, but as with any online test, even though it has been conducted by professionals, online tests are to be taken with a grain of salt. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...d-behind-the-eyes/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

 

[Loomis]

How about when Spock raises one eyebrow?

 

[bentHnau]

I don't understand how anyone can really interpret a casual or subtle facial expression though. How can people expect anyone to read minds with facial expressions that aren't obvious?

I don't think they are reading minds; I think they have an established system of symbolic behavior such that all those who have absorbed the system can reliably assume that certain facial expressions correlate with certain states of mind. The system is absorbed by:

a. the drive to imitate others (which is often lacking in those with ASD) causes children to begin to mimic facial expressions in certain situations at a young age, such that the correlation between facial expression and emotions becomes internalised

b. the drive towards emotional reciprocity motivates children to study the faces of elders who have already absorbed the system, which also helps them to internalize the correlation

c. for the really subtle expressions, they analyze the situation and project the response they think they would have, or what they learned that someone else felt in a similar situation from the past.

Or not. That's kind of a guess.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Most people aren't actually that great at reading facial expressions.
For instance, people assume that smiling means happiness. But research shows that people also smile when they are frustrated. (I'm too lazy to find a link to this particular piece of research). Researchers showed people videos of people who were happy, and others who were frustrated. The people in the videos weren't acting, they were really feeling those emotions. But viewers couldn't tell the difference between the two.

 

[Granta_Omega]

I'm terrible at facial expressions, so the entire notion of reading them fails big time with me. Or, as a more appropriate expression "it falls flat on it's face".

But as you mention, the really obvious ones, those aren't hard to miss I guess. Someone dropping the jaw seems pretty obvious, but then again, I think it has to do with the fact that such an expression is a significant expression, rather than a subtle change in eyes, mouth or other parts in the face.

What's interesting though, is that I'm so bad at facial expressions that I'm even terrible at expressing them. I've had sessions with therapists and I threw them off cause my face gave them a different expression as to how I was feeling. So that's an extra issue that comes with it. Not only do I fail in reading them, people fail in reading me as well (and those are the NT's I'm talking about).

As for the type of expressions; I don't think there's a list to see which ones you can and can't read. From my understanding, especially with tests, they come down to facial expressions on pictures and you have to put the correct emotion with said picture. If you're unable to do so pretty consistently (there's a test where you only see a set of eyes and they express something; think it's 36 pictures, and from what I'm reading about it, scoring between 22 and 30 is normal below 22 is the cut off that you're not so good at reading emotions; I remember scoring 4 out of 36 at one time).

The test can be checked out here, but as with any online test, even though it has been conducted by professionals, online tests are to be taken with a grain of salt. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/...d-behind-the-eyes/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

I don't think the facial expressions test gives any kind of accurate indicator of how well one understands facial expressions. I scored relatively well on the test, but I along with many others noticed that since it was multiple choice, it simply was by process of elimination that we got the answers correct. That test seems to be based on how well one takes tests over how well they understand facial expressions.

 

[Granta_Omega]

Most people aren't actually that great at reading facial expressions.
For instance, people assume that smiling means happiness. But research shows that people also smile when they are frustrated. (I'm too lazy to find a link to this particular piece of research). Researchers showed people videos of people who were happy, and others who were frustrated. The people in the videos weren't acting, they were really feeling those emotions. But viewers couldn't tell the difference between the two.

I scored about 50/50 on the fake vs. real smiles test that I saw somewhere on the internet. Some smiles I can tell are fake, but usually only when it is a blushing or nervous smile.

 

[StephF]

re the Spock eyebrow thing, I'd go for quizzical puzzlement ? Am I wrong ?

 

[King_Oni]

I don't think the facial expressions test gives any kind of accurate indicator of how well one understands facial expressions. I scored relatively well on the test, but I along with many others noticed that since it was multiple choice, it simply was by process of elimination that we got the answers correct. That test seems to be based on how well one takes tests over how well they understand facial expressions.

Oh, for sure... the fact that it was a multiple choice does make it easier. In real life there's a bigger spectrum of choices.

Not sure if "how well one takes tests" actually is the case. Even on averages; I should've scored at least 9 correct out of 36. I couldn't even manage that. For me pretty much all were a gamble.

However, if you were to say "I know a few expressions" that would make eliminating a few a lot easier. If you have; Surprise, Anger, Sadness and Contemplating as the 4 choices on such a test, and you know 3 of those... or even 2, it does increase the chances to get the right one. Though if you have no clue about any of these 4, it's still a gamble. Knowing expressions that are asked on these tests, might me akin to having studied for said exam.

 

[Loomis]

re the Spock eyebrow thing, I'd go for quizzical puzzlement ? Am I wrong ?

I think the usual answer is skepticism but quizzical puzzlement is pretty close and equally valid.

 

[Granta_Omega]

Oh, for sure... the fact that it was a multiple choice does make it easier. In real life there's a bigger spectrum of choices.

Not sure if "how well one takes tests" actually is the case. Even on averages; I should've scored at least 9 correct out of 36. I couldn't even manage that. For me pretty much all were a gamble.

However, if you were to say "I know a few expressions" that would make eliminating a few a lot easier. If you have; Surprise, Anger, Sadness and Contemplating as the 4 choices on such a test, and you know 3 of those... or even 2, it does increase the chances to get the right one. Though if you have no clue about any of these 4, it's still a gamble. Knowing expressions that are asked on these tests, might me akin to having studied for said exam.

How many people do you know of that can't tell the difference between an angry face and a happy face? Or better yet, who wouldn't be able to tell someone's eyes lighting up and opening their mouth really wide isn't some kind of indicator of surprise? I think those are rather obvious to anyone.

 

[King_Oni]

How many people do you know of that can't tell the difference between an angry face and a happy face? Or better yet, who wouldn't be able to tell someone's eyes lighting up and opening their mouth really wide isn't some kind of indicator of surprise? I think those are rather obvious to anyone.

It doesn't matter how many people I know who fail to recognize this; fact is, I regularly fail to do so.

I'm well aware I'm a minority, but if anything, my comment about failure to recognize is something from a personal experience and doesn't have to reflect upon the vast majority (of aspies).

 

[Easter]

Maybe facial recognition becomes difficult because on most people what they are facially expressing is a form of fiction and a mask of what they are really thinking. 'Facial Fiction' might be the real problem and maybe this only exists in NT's.

 

[Granta_Omega]

It doesn't matter how many people I know who fail to recognize this; fact is, I regularly fail to do so.

I'm well aware I'm a minority, but if anything, my comment about failure to recognize is something from a personal experience and doesn't have to reflect upon the vast majority (of aspies).

I'm actually not wanting to argue with you or anything, but I'm quite interested in what you're saying.

So, are you saying that if someone asked you to describe the difference between a happy face and a sad face that you couldn't do it? Or are you saying that you don't automatically detect a face that is made when someone is doing it?

 

[King_Oni]

I'm actually not wanting to argue with you or anything, but I'm quite interested in what you're saying.

So, are you saying that if someone asked you to describe the difference between a happy face and a sad face that you couldn't do it? Or are you saying that you don't automatically detect a face that is made when someone is doing it?

It actually takes some time for me to register it. And thats only for the obvious ones. Eventually I can recognize a sad or happy face, though perhaps circumstances where I see such a face (and general context) might play a part.

Though I must add that I have difficulties recognizing people by their face anyway unless they have distinct features. Which commonly is referred to as prosopagnosia, though I manage fine by recognizing voice and placing certain people in context. Perhaps this adds to my inability to recognize expression

 

[Stacey]

I got 29/36 it took me a while though.
The multiple choice answers helped a lot. I eliminated the obscure and went for the obvious.

 

[Granta_Omega]

Facial expressions is one of the reasons I initially ruled out having Asperger's Disorder when I learned about it 4.5 years ago.

I have some trouble here and there understanding sarcasm and did have quite some difficulty with idioms growing up. For example, I only learned what "beating around the bush" and "pot calling the kettle black" meant after hearing them several times with the type of conversation they were used in. I initially pictured someone beating a bush with a stick, and I still really don't know what hypocrisy has to do with pots and kettles.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

NT's aren't experts at reading facial expressions either. There have been countless times where I have said, "and what's that look for?"
I have this saying I use that goes "if I look interested in what you're saying, then let me know so I can change my facial expression." (Needless to say, I only use that one on my close friends.)

 

[Vexx3]

I can pick up on the obvious ones and sometimes I can pick up an expression based on someones voice tone or inflection sometimes. Some of the slightly more subtle facial expressions take me a bit longer to register though, and I just don't understand what stuff like "eyes lighting up" is even suppose to look like.

 

[radasp]

Reading facial expressions is nonsense: reason #1. Up until recently, only Ancient Greek and Roman males removed facial hair. How did people read facial expressions of men with hair covering their faces? #2. People in many cultures present a stone cold expressionless face in public. Can you accurately "read" people from other cultures? No. #3. Communication styles are based on social status; what a rich person can do with their face and body language is different than what a poor person is "allowed" to do. #4. Why is verbal language so extremely important, and then suddenly, you can't use it to ASK SOMEONE what they mean or what mood they're in? It's silly!