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Uta Frith: why I no longer think autism is a spectrum

A

Alexej

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I thought this might be of interest so some of us on here.

Uta Frith is a well known researcher into autism, and the article quotes her as saying "The autism spectrum has widened to the point of collapse, affecting how teachers should support autistic pupils in the classroom"

THe whole article is too long to paste into the Forum so I have attached it as a pdf.
 

Attachments

Yeah I'm glad she's not able to change things to meet the way she's viewing it now.

Honestly the "Contraindicators" she uses are invalid. "Able to interact smoothly in a conversation" and/or "understand irony and humor". First of 99% of people in general don't understand Irony. I do, because I was raised by an English professor. Same as how I understand humor and can usually, not always, but usually make my way through most conversations "smoothly" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. I've had decades to practice and learn all the expressions and turns of phrase. She also completely overlooked and didn't even mention that often those so called "hypersensitive" children as she describes them, end up as damn disasters in their 30's/40's when they burnout not realizing the entire time they've been autistic/neurodiverse.

Then too her outright dismissal of masking. She's a geneticist and I'm sorry you can't find a gene for masking, it doesn't however eliminate the actual mental stress and damage that comes from a lifetime of masking. Especially when you do so unknowingly just trying to survive.

So personally I disagree with this lady despite her reputation as I think her focus is far too small. And it boils down to an argument of "it's hard to keep up with treating/supporting autistic children so lets just diagnose less of them so we don't have to treat as many". Read it twice, that is her message. Restrict those that can be diagnosed and let the hypersensitive perish.
 
Saw this critique of Uta's point of view on another site and I really like the thought.

"To define autism (and the perceived "severity" of it) by capacity to function in society is to define it through a capitalist lens - because capacity to function is so often a shorthand for capacity for education and employment that many other areas of dis/ability and strength end up dismissed and forgotten. Frith has a lot of interesting experience and views but as the evidence grows and the field of autism studies develops, things become more nuanced than some of the early pioneers of the field can/tend to keep up with"
 
lunarious said:
What does spectrum mean for ASD?
Click to expand...
Spectrum is the S in ASD. Spectrum means that there is a wide range of possibility. So in ASD some of us are non-verbal, some of us like myself though very verbal. Both myself and the non-verbal are autistic but we exist in different ends of the spectrum.

Take current diagnosis in terms of supports with folks classed as Level 1 through 3 with 3 requiring the most supports and Level 1 hardly any at all. Level 1 folks would by and large have been the folks previously diagnosed with Aspergers before it got rolled in with ASD in the last DSM update.
 
Yeah, irony and satire and cynicism aren't specific to any set disorder/diagnosis. They are first and foremost related to knowing and understanding literal and figurative definitions of words/phrases/laws/rules/guidelines and/or right and wrong. This is why I can read any text and point out contradictions over and over and over. It's why I also see people of all walks (NT or ND alike) that can't spot the same things...ever. They just believe it and never once question it. It's a matter of education ability and/or retaining and being able to recall said knowledge.

It is a rarity that the best comedians are uneducated or morons, if you will. They are almost always at the top of the intelligence quotient percentage-wise.
 
She is, she says, “very happy to see that some action is being taken to understand why
there has been such a dramatic increase in ASD diagnosis and why we have such long
waiting lists.
Click to expand...

I haven't researched this topic, but I will throw an idea into the arena:
Financial benefits. <ka-ching> 💲

Every man, woman, gender diverse person, and their dog wants to get their snout into the money trough. <oink> 🐽
Please correct me if you think I am wrong.

Call me cynical.
I do. :cool:
 
She describes that contra-indications for autism include the ability to interact smoothly
in conversation and to understand and use irony and humour. We disagree that these
are necessarily contra-indications to autism – instead, they can represent hard-won
skills associated with intellectual effort and practice as well as aspects of personality.
Click to expand...
This is definitely the case with me.
My autism was challenged by some disagreeable characters in the past, BTW.
 
I think some of this is her saying what a lot of people would like to say about Asperger's being rolled into ASD, but don't because you get shouted down as a bigot or worse. [ gives finger to the shouters ]

I would have thought she of all people would understand masking. No. Nope. So far off I feel like crying.

And telling functional people we're not ND because we function too well? We learned how to because all of the other choices were WORSE, lady. Let's refer back to her inability to understand masking.

WOW.
 
Ugh. I’ve been dismissed as “not autistic” my whole life by people sticking to narrow criteria like “understands sarcasm and irony” and “doesn’t require support.” Also often told that I can’t be autistic because I’m an extrovert and highly social, and my special interests aren’t “niche” enough.

This was a discouraging read. Seems like more dismissal of people who are considered high functioning/level 1 (yes, I was diagnosed with “Asperger’s” initially.)
 
Well, I haven't read either article completely, but I think the age of the individual needs to be considered.

The statement:
instead, they can represent hard-won
skills associated with intellectual effort and practice as well as aspects of personality.
Click to expand...
Is referring to non-young-children on the spectrum.

The same applies to "cognitive empathy", which involves the intellect (reasoning ability) and experience over time, something young children don't have.
 
This is an interesting read. To mere widen the spectrum to a collapse it would have to had expanded to a much more vast distance. Including all of the "sister" disorders like ADHD things of that nature. This statement seems a bit dramatic (collapse). I may be wrong but they seem to have SOME biased views towards women. Not actually understanding what autism is like in society for women where you are naturally expected to be a certain way right from a little girl. How dangerous it can be if you are vulnerable and the benefit of masking how it can be life or death and not simply just a tool to "fit in".

Also I am not EXACTLY sure what it is like in other parts of the world but in Canada where I am, Autism isn't an extremely common diagnosis if you are high function. You are almost always over looked. And people look at higher functioning as intellegence level. They dont look as if you have social difficulties, anxieties, fear, or anything that you struggle with just that you are intelligent so you do not need help.

Autism being one percent of the worlds population, roughly making up 83 million people and that being 32million children. That is still a large population.

The other factor that they never considered is that if one already exhibits autistics traits but is on the cusp of being on the spectrum, (have ie ADHD) but they go through some extreme traumatic event this can trigger their Autistic traits to be unmanageable now at a level considered on the spectrum. I have had a discussion at length with a psychologist/ psychiatrist about this very thing.

The world that the millenial generation has lived through (not just millennial). The birth of the internet craze. 9-11 that impacted the world as a whole changing the way people fly etc. Covid. World wars (I missed a lot). On top of all of that rise in violence, abuse, broken homes. Maybe there is a rise in a certain age category. But their brains were already wired that way from the start. As children managed because of the lack of extra added stress; they were verbal, excelled in school, had routine etc. But as life continued on chaos started to errupt and change in their home and the world ate away at the barrier keeping things under control.

Meh, it is just a view 🤷‍♀️ not saying I agree with the DSM.
 
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JayLapointe said:
Saw this critique of Uta's point of view on another site and I really like the thought.

"To define autism (and the perceived "severity" of it) by capacity to function in society is to define it through a capitalist lens - because capacity to function is so often a shorthand for capacity for education and employment that many other areas of dis/ability and strength end up dismissed and forgotten. Frith has a lot of interesting experience and views but as the evidence grows and the field of autism studies develops, things become more nuanced than some of the early pioneers of the field can/tend to keep up with"
Click to expand...

"Capacity to function", even NT are not being able to keep up how things are going, lots of people complain in different countries how long shifts jobs that not pay well enough to live make everything difficult.
 
If I could summarize, Uta Frith's view is that there is "autism classic" (those "significantly" impacted individuals quickly diagnosed in early childhood) and all the rest is "something else". I appreciate where her mind is trying to go here, but likely not accurate nor as simple as she would like unfortunately.

I am thinking the ASD-1, 2, and 3 is sufficient in categorizing the condition, but on the other hand, I can understand the concern with the ASD-1 category and all it's apparent inclusivity, as well as, this apparent societal trend towards needing an "identity" and a "label". I can appreciate and value neurodiversity within the human population. I think our contributions strengthens the species and is key to our long-term survival, not to mention pushing us forward in technology, culturally, and lived experience. Perhaps there have always been a sub-population of what we call "ASD-1s" within society all along, but now we have the tools to identify these individuals. Perhaps this is what we are "struggling" to understand and accept... this perception that there are "too many". Humans, and frankly, all social creatures on Earth tend to have "issues" with individuals who are "different" to the point of exile and even killing those individuals. There's a strong "primal" drive for this sort of behavior. We may be living in 2026 and we would like to think we are "civilized" and "above" other creatures, but at our core, there still appears to be a primitive ape.

Personally, "thinking" you are autistic and actually "being" autistic may be fraught with error. I also think the DSM is a good general guideline... but there seems to be some inconsistency in HOW and WHO is doing the diagnosing, especially for those potentially within the ASD-1 category. Knowing you are "different" and being able to somehow "check all the boxes" within your own mind can sometimes be a result of cognitive biases, and I would say, even for those who are doing the diagnosing. So, I am more concerned with the HOW individuals are being diagnosed and am suggesting a more comprehensive, structured, and agreed upon testing method.
 
Every time we take one step forwards, some "genius" out there says some nonsense that makes us take eleven steps back.

Autism is a spectrum disorder. If it wasn't I would have likely ever been diagnosed, which probably saved me from having a complete nervous breakdown and end up in a ditch somewhere.
 
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