Training or Therapy for Those on the Autism Spectrum

[Sportster]

. . .

 

[Gracey]

Off the top of my head I'm not sure what training involves so don't feel I could give an opinion.

Therapy is something I'm involved in at the moment.
C.B.T - not a "think happy thoughts" kind of CBT although ultimately it will end with something along those lines but my thought processes are being challenged at the moment and it's intriguing.

I'm someone who believes that depression is a result of...
Anxiety is a result of....
(Where we'll end up if we don't look for a way or ways to change that course.)
I think these are termed comorbid conditions? (Would welcome any correction on this)

I'm new to the idea of being an Aspie so in my own mind I haven't been used to a lifetime of diagnosis and accepting limitations.
Stims, insomnia, chronic awkwardness socially, feeling bewildered during conversations, burn out, frustration and temper, needing time by myself to process I'd always justified or reasoned using other explanations.
(ASD never occurred to me. I only thought there was one type of autism - not a whole spectrum)

So perhaps in my ignorance I'm believing I can change my own perception of a situation by changing my beliefs, thoughts, actions?
If I believe something IS, then that's my reality. My view of my world.

Just a quick example before I drone on. Today (in therapy) I was given a situation whereby a fictional person would go about their day to day holding up their arms in a surrender type of pose.

When asked why they were doing this, they replied " If I hold up my arms like this, I won't get attacked by dragons"
And to date, this person never has (been attacked by dragons) it's worked. Because it's worked this person will keep on doing it. It's their reality. Their evidence is the fact that they've never been attacked.
I personally would offer another reason as to why no attack by dragons has taken place but it's not my belief to deal with.

I think I'm trying to say therapy won't change the fact I view the world through an Aspie filter but I believe changing my thought patterns will help me cope with the resulting anxieties and stress and fears and need for control...
But I could also be wrong? I won't know until I've tried.

 

[SunnyDay16]

Not all training/therapy programs will help. It honestly depends on the specific program and whether or not it is tailored to meet your individual needs, personality, and skills.

 

[Alaska]

After spending a few years here reading many posts and considering my own life, I have wondered if those on the spectrum would benefit more from training or perhaps “occupational therapy,” as some may call it.

Every person on the spectrum with whom I have interacted has shared the same difficulties. Those that were diagnosed after a certain year seem to be involved in some sort of therapy designed to help them with the difficulties of being on the spectrum (depression, etc). Such therapy is good and can be of great benefit, but I can’t help but wonder if there would be greater benefit from “training.” If from the moment one is diagnosed they are taught how to overcome the manifestations of ASD and how to integrate and function in an NT world, perhaps the other issues would not be so great. Bear in mind that I am merely speculating in light of my own life.

So, what are your views on this subject?

I am not familiar with training programs either. I feel leery of them due to previous experiences with people who feel they have some kind of license to change me. If I felt as if I could keep control with what was happening, including opting out at any time, I would be more interested.

I am not sitting on my hands, doing nothing. I have spent most of my life working on changing myself for the better, in many ways. It has been successful in some ways and I believe that I can do better yet.

 

[xudo]

I haven't had any. I think it would be helpful though. My husband had a group thing for people who'd just recently been diagnosed, but I'm not sure what was involved altogether. Maybe @VenomousAlbino can shed some more light. I wasn't offered it because I think they forgot about me

 

[Gracey]

Just out of interest @Sportster,

What might that involve? The "training"?

If you're already observing and learning to emulate (mimicry) what do you feel is missing from what you're already doing?
What do you personally think someone would be able to teach you and how?

 

[Warmheart]

Childhood therapies were normalizing therapies, thus very damaging, resulting in internalized ableism, self-loathing, and C-PTSD. (There's really no honest way to soften that.)

Adulthood's autism strategies have all been positive, self-directed, under my control. While it took me a (very) long time to be able to even speak or look at the autism specialists who were ready to work with me, my defenses eventually thawed enough to trust, and be open to strategies, life skills training, and help. These autism specialists have become like my family.

Now, I have a list of accommodations people on any job site must adhere to, in order to have me work there. The behavior analyst adds to the accommodations list as needed. Examples of accommodations are dimming lights, an empty room to decompress in for breaks, and no conversation unless I initiate it.

Some supports I use in life because of the guidance of specialists are an AAC device to speak when in high-stress situations, and a bunch of fidget toys which travel in my backpack. The fidget toys help me process spoken language I must listen to, such as instructions or a lecture, as well as helping me with fluidity of thought when I myself need to do some talking.

While I believe that social skills training classes are an excellent idea, it must be remembered that real Life interactions for those on the spectrum are not done on an intuitive level, so thus will always be both challenging and draining. We really need to feel better about who we are, awkwardness and all, and embrace our differences. This extends to being upfront at work about diagnosis, so we can get any necessary supports and accommodations in place at work.

Being authentic regarding my autism with myself and learning to trust autism professionals who value my input has made my life better. Having a team of autism support workers and autism therapists on my side has helped significantly. These services come through autism agencies, who do help autistic adults. My opinion is that adults with more of an Asperger's profile would find the most supportive services in agencies who help autistic kids with high support needs, because you would be taken seriously. I'm in my 50s by the way, older than anyone on my support team. Many others they support are adults who live independently.

There's always hope. Services get tailored to adults with varying support needs for work and socializing all the time. Sometimes it's just a matter of connecting with the right agency.

 

[Gracey]

Thanks for your thoughts @Sportster.
I'm ten years your junior, female and compared with some, brand new to the idea of autism so I'm thinking that I'm looking at this from a different perspective.?

There are agencies out there -(in that world that doesn't care?) that will assist but it would seem a person has to reach a point of crisis and non functioning to be significant enough for funding in order to help (In the U.K) - seems a shame that funding is so scarce there's little offered to prevent those crisis and if an Aspie would shout loud enough and insist on help when medical doors are being closed in their face?
(One of the reasons I'm thankful for this site.)

From what you wrote, it seemed to me you were doing a remarkable job of training yourself
As frustrating as those struggles may have been, you've overcome some of those barriers?
(Just one of the things I truly admire about aspies on the spectrum)
I did wonder if it was possible for someone to teach us what we already know for the purpose of making things easier?

 

[Gracey]

A well made point @Sportster
But not exclusive to ASD.
There's a general consensus that alot of students away from home for the first time discover that a vacuum cleaner wasn't a decorative ornament, a washing machine isn't magic and a body is only fuelled for so long on crisps, alcohol and kebabs.
I do see how being given an idea of what to expect in this new environment requiring different routines would lessen anxiety though.

My younger brother had an engineering tutor who he claimed was bordering on genius.
He said this tutor would often turn up to teach wearing shoes that didn't match, one or no socks at all, odd items of clothing thrown together. The tutor's appearance seemed basically functional.
As if this tutor had thought "I ought to be wearing shoes and clothes when I teach"
Any shoe is classed as wearing shoes. Any item of clothing worn is considered as wearing clothes.

Would that training in the social aspect of things include a routine in the organisation involved in appearance?
If the student was hyper focused would they remember this training?

 

[Gracey]

Now I understand
About the mass comms systems and melt downs and the potential dangers.

Could you come up with a solution? Information on what to expect?
To be sent out to students on the spectrum prior to them joining you?
Attend a week or two earlier to establish their own routines, opportunity to hear each of the different alarms? Go through the drills and procedures thoroughly? Experience the environment and expectations whilst it's quiet?
You are in the unique position to view the situation from both sides. I can't think of anyone better suited to devise something that will work for others on the spectrum.

 

[the_tortoise]

I think the focus should not be on "overcoming" the ASD and emulating normal (although emulating normal is a helpful skill, at times, I don't think it should be forced or seen as the most important thing), but on understanding ourselves and others, getting along with others, and being supported in finding ways to cope with difficulties and to learn and develop life/work/academic skills in ways that are natural and actually work with whatever our individual cognitive styles happen to be.

I think probably the most important thing of all, especially when we live in a world that is often intolerant of difference, is that an autistic person is shown acceptance, love, respect, and caring, and given the message that they are valuable and full of potential -- just the way they are.

My personal opinion is that social coaching is probably better than social skills classes -- or at least should be offered in addition -- because it works with real situations as a person experiences them and gives a fuller and more concrete sort of context that is more likely to take nuances and exceptions into account.

 

[the_tortoise]

It is sad, because I have seen many fine, highly intelligent young students leave because they could not deal with the challenges brought on by their ASD. Academically they were doing fine, but they did not have the ability to function in a foreign environment. If they had been taught early how to deal with some of those challenges, they would have been able to settle in and adjust as time passed.

Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes limitations around things like sensory issues and executive functioning can't be overcome and simply have to be accounted for.

The person with extreme auditory sensitivity might need to have a support worker with them, or (if this was their only difficulty) a designated person on campus (or several designated persons throughout the day -- staff or other students) tasked with looking out for them in the event of an emergency situation and important safety instructions being announced over the comm system -- or in the event of a loud emergency situation, comm system announcements or no comm system announcements. It might sound infantilizing or costly but it wouldn't necessarily have to be either of those things -- I'm not suggesting that the autistic person would need to have someone literally following them around and watching everything they do (even if they had a support worker trailing around with them, it isn't necessarily infantilizing as long as the support worker is working for the student and not the other way around -- business executives might have personal assistants following them around to enable them to get things done, why is a support worker so much different? Support workers are always costly but I think people need to look at long-terms cost -- how much will that person be able to contribute to society and to their local economy if they are supported to get their degree? Even if they need support workers their entire life, their degree may provide a path towards future financial self-sufficiency so that they can even hire and pay for their own support workers later on....and what about human costs? The value of social inclusion and all the contributions and costs that you can't attach dollar values to?I think people who need support workers to achieve their goals and/or be okay in life should have access to them, that the cost is worth it even if that person will never be financially self-sufficient....sorry to digress so much, in such a disjointed, rambly way......as I was saying, the solution could be simply: ) that there be someone relatively close by who would (in the event of that comm announcement during an emergency/loud emergency) locate them and help them. When I was a youth, that was the sort of thing that my friends would do for me -- they didn't suffocate me or baby me and there was no power imbalance or one-sided dependency in the relationships I'm thinking of, but they understood some of my limitations and were prepared to step in an assist me when I needed help. I see no reason why it should have to be a personal friend looking out for you....we should all look out for each other.

 

[Gracey]

An interesting and valid point. In my building we have had a number of handicapped (quadriplegic, etc) students over the years that had caregivers to assist them, so a "support worker" may be an option. However, questions concerning who would pay for the support worker, where would the support worker stay, would the support worker continue with the student after graduation, etc would have to be explored and answered.

Despite being a state university, it's still about the bottom line and making a profit.

Could using a support worker be considered as 'training' ?
Is the client learning anything by using the support of an assistant?

It's certainly a valuable support in situ' but is it much different from having say, one of their parents or guardians at University assisting them?

How is the student learning to be more independent or using effective methods of coping in times of stress?

 

[the_tortoise]

However, questions concerning who would pay for the support worker, where would the support worker stay, would the support worker continue with the student after graduation, etc would have to be explored and answered.

Despite being a state university, it's still about the bottom line and making a profit.

Indeed, you are right.

 

[the_tortoise]

Could using a support worker be considered as 'training' ?
Is the client learning anything by using the support of an assistant?

They could be. I think that would really depend on the needs and abilities of the student.

It's certainly a valuable support in situ' but is it much different from having say, one of their parents or guardians at University assisting them?

I think it would depend on what the support worker's role was and why they were there -- on both the legal capacity of the student and also their abilities/needs in a more general sense.

One thing that could be very different is the student's independence and autonomy....having your parents as your support may hinder those things because power imbalances between parents and children often linger no matter how old the child becomes.

How is the student learning to be more independent or using effective methods of coping in times of stress?

Some people may never be able to cope without a support worker, or may always need support from others (in a natural/unofficial capacity) in certain contexts or with certain tasks. The support person may be necessary for them to cope effectively.

I don't mean to suggest that you are saying independence is more important than everything else, but your question brought this to mind (reminded me of how this seems to be the case generally, at least in my view/experience):

Why is the goal so often independence above everything else?

Why isn't it success (financial/social/academic/vocational)?

Why isn't it finding a place within and a way to contribute to your community?

Why isn't it satisfaction and happiness in life?

All of those things are possible without complete independence (for that matter they're possible for people who need help from others 24/7), and I'd argue that they are more important.....also, independence doesn't guarantee a single one of them.

Certainly, independence is valuable. The more support a person needs, the more vulnerable they are in the world. Independence also grants a lot of freedoms, makes things less complicated....I'm not suggesting it's not important at all.

 

[Gracey]

You're right @ the_tortoise

I was thinking of an able bodied student making an independent decision, or using intention to follow procedure in the event of a mass comms alarm within a building that signalled fire, tornado, mass shooter as opposed to covering their ears and going into melt down and whether or not that memory or reaction could be achieved with training?

The sound of a particular alarm could immediately trigger a flight response? (Classical conditioning?) The volume of that alarm would still be incredible even with trying to block out the sound by various means, the specific part I was thinking about was the reaction on hearing that alarm. The 'what happens next'.
And would familiarisation lessen the shock/fear?

My mind was looking at a specific instance (mass comms alarm in the building) rather than considering beyond that.

 

[the_tortoise]

You're right @ the_tortoise

I was thinking of an able bodied student making an independent decision, or using intention to follow procedure in the event of a mass comms alarm within a building that signalled fire, tornado, mass shooter as opposed to covering their ears and going into melt down and whether or not that memory or reaction could be achieved with training?

I was also thinking of able-bodied students

Some might be able to develop whatever abilities are necessary to avoid the meltdowns, and even to follow rote procedure or even maintain enough cognitive capacity to process instructions and problem-solve on the spot.....others would not be able to do that -- some would not even get close.

Meltdowns are not like a chosen or learned action and there is no thought process involved (at least not for what I call "meltdowns") -- what happens is similar to yanking your hand away from a hot stove....it is an instinctive fight/flight reaction beyond conscious thought, and you are not in control.

Certainly there are people who can white-knuckle through pain (and that kind of reaction to auditory stimuli suggests to me it could very well be physically painful -- the pain could in fact be what causes the extreme fear/distress, or be in addition to it) and in doing so avoid that extreme fight/flight response where you limbic system takes over everything -- some can even retain all their cognitive wherewithall while doing so -- but not everyone can, and the ability varies from person to person.

The sound of a particular alarm could immediately trigger a flight response? (Classical conditioning?) The volume of that alarm would still be incredible even with trying to block out the sound by various means, the specific part I was thinking about was the reaction on hearing that alarm. The 'what happens next'.

I think that if a person has meltdowns over alarms/comms announcements, they probably have meltdowns over a lot of painful and overwhelming sensory stimuli - the alarm is likely not the actual problem, severe sensory processing disorder or standalone hypersensitivity to sound (all sound, or just certain frequencies and decibel levels -- but everywhere, context independent) is the likely problem......

You can't get rid of sensory processing disorders with classical conditioning (you might get a person to learn how to white-knuckle through pain, or to shut down or dissociate.....but you'd probably do them a lot of psychological damage in the process -- and you might actually do nothing but make the problem worse, by adding psychological trauma to a problem that is not psychological in nature.)

And would familiarisation lessen the shock/fear?

I am not sure what you mean by "familiarisation"?

Desensitization could help if it were done as part of a legitimate program of sensory integration therapy or the pink noise therapy some audiologists use -- and with the student as a truly voluntary participant (otherwise you again risk adding psychological trauma and making the problem worse instead of better).

My mind was looking at a specific instance (mass comms alarm in the building) rather than considering beyond that.

I was also focusing on that specific example, but my mind branches out all over the place as part of doing so and I'm not always very good at explaining how what I'm saying relates back (plus there is how I can, obviously, get onto tangents)....sorry if my response was unclear in that manner, or strayed too far off topic too many times.

 

[Gracey]

Please, don't apologise for your thoughts, where ever they go. I suspect your own knowledge, experience and understanding to be far broader than my own. You're able to include ideas in your answers I haven't even considered in the same way some of my own experiences to date have me questioning why? Why can't such a thing happen?

I'm brand new to the idea of autism and sometimes forget it's a spectrum. A range of abilities. Unique to the individual. What might work for some won't necessarily work for all.

Thank you for your reply

 

[the_tortoise]

Please, don't apologise for your thoughts, where ever they go. I suspect your own knowledge, experience and understanding to be far broader than my own. You're able to include ideas in your answers I haven't even considered in the same way some of my own experiences to date have me questioning why? Why can't such a thing happen?

I'm brand new to the idea of autism and sometimes forget it's a spectrum. A range of abilities. Unique to the individual. What might work for some won't necessarily work for all.

Thank you for your reply

Thank you for reading my rambles and finding good in the tangents

 

[Gracey]

Thank you for reading my rambles and finding good in the tangents

I don't quite know what to do here.
Your reply was polite and gracious. I wanted to let you know I appreciated it but using the words "you're welcome" in my mind, sound far too conceited.
I don't have any alternatives (scripts?)

I also realise by doing what I am now doing (explaining myself) usually confuses others and can make them feel uncomfortable and a simple "you're welcome" could have avoided a situation I've just created
(Even though "you're welcome" isn't what I mean at all)

So, in an attempt to soothe my own self inflicted chaos and at the risk of sounding even more odd I will write 'I read what you wrote in your reply, I appreciate your grace and your manners'

(I am laughing at myself over the above and asking myself "what are you doing? Are you nuts?)
And answering myself with 'yes, probably but 'go for it' anyway'