The West and Non-Religious compared with Religion

[lunarious]

Edited

In The West there's the thought that we should maximize pleasure and minimize pain. This thought dominates.

But i'm thinking every second i don't feel Pain for better is a lost moment of my life. Pain increase you rank.

I think happy people are weak. Strong Fit people are unhappy. In relation to that Science and Art is based on the number 7 strong fit people study.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am thinking you are making some generalizations here, as it certainly is not always the case, but in terms of the overall population, there does tend to be a culture of "avoiding discomfort" in the West. We embrace and seek out things that are convenient or make us physically comfortable, sometimes to our detriment. Part of this is cultural and part of it being standards of living, but none of this is universal, because we do have people who are homeless and living on the streets. They aren't happy nor comfortable. On the other hand, there are cities in the Middle East where there is extravagant wealth, and it is flaunted more than anywhere else on Earth.

As a former competing athlete, I can say for certain that there was a mantra that "pain is weakness leaving your body", "no pain, no gain", and we were to embrace pain, because afterwards you were rewarded with endorphins and, over time, able to perform at a higher level. I would endure pain that would make most people pass out, and I actually got a "rush" or "high" from it. A bit masochistic in that regard. I know that folks that have been, or are in the military can relate to the same thing, this forcing your body to endure extremes in order to become better and stronger.

With regards to the "happy people are weak and strong people are unhappy" statement, I am thinking it can be true, but can be quite the opposite in some cases. There's a saying that, "Hard times make strong people and strong people make good times and good times make weak people and weak people make hard times." It gives some hope to those who are living in hard times that their strength will eventually lead to good times ahead. Unfortunately, as this cycle would imply, once you have achieved good times, it will create weak people, and so it goes, on an on, in a cycle.

I was never happier than when I was pushing myself through pain and discomfort, because I knew that I was improving in some regard. I was achieving goals.

"Money does not bring happiness" a common saying amongst people who don't have money in order to make themselves feel better about their situation. It's a half-truth, or lie, as some may suggest. Money does make life easier if you don't have to think about it, and although it doesn't guarantee happiness, it's certainly one significant worry off your mind. On the other hand, the process of attaining the sort of wealth that allows you to purchase without any concern of price, well, that is often associated with a lot of discomfort. Everyone loves to think that it is so unfair that there are billionaires in this world, but if we understood what it really took to get there, the level of mental and physical discomfort it took to get their businesses to that level, they would never dream of considering it. It took an exceptional amount of inner strength and a relentless drive to do these things, but some people think it was given to them and that it was easy. Well, if that was the case, the world would be full of billionaires. More people need to find the strength to do these things themselves, but they won't, never will, and are full of excuses. I will leave it at that before I go on with a long rant about the sins of envy and jealousy that are rampant in our culture.

 

[lunarious]

...
I think happy people are weak. Strong people are unhappy.

I am thinking you are making some generalizations here, as it certainly is not always the case, but in terms of the overall population, there does tend to be a culture of "avoiding discomfort" in the West.
...
As former competing athlete...

With regards to the "happy people are weak and strong people are unhappy" statement, I am thinking it can be true, but can be quite the opposite in some cases.

"Money does not bring happiness". It's a half-truth, or lie, as some may suggest. Money does make life easier if you don't have to think about it, and although it doesn't guarantee happiness, it's certainly one significant worry off your mind. On the other hand, the process of attaining the sort of wealth that allows you to purchase without any concern of price, well, that is often associated with a lot of discomfort. Everyone loves to think that it is so unfair that there are billionaires in this world, but if we understood what it really took to get there, the level of mental and physical discomfort it took to get their businesses to that level, they would never dream of considering it. It took an exceptional amount of inner strength and a relentless drive to do these things, but some people think it was given to them and that it was easy. Well, if that was the case, the world would be full of billionaires. More people need to find the strength to do these things themselves, but they won't, never will, and are full of excuses. I will leave it at that before I go on with a long rant about the sins of envy and jealousy that are rampant in our culture.

I expressed my self not well enough. But we agree as "strong people".

Edit: In Iraq we say, anything that increases over the limit turns against it.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

From my observations of the world right now, having lived through both good times and bad times, we are in a transition from the hard times created by weak people to the good times created by strong people. Right now, in the present day, we are seeing a lot of protests and anger from weak people around the world because the strong people are taking over in order to make the good times that will be in the future. However, in their short sightedness, all they see is hard times in the present. People who exploited the system and made easy money from waste, fraud, abuse, and laziness, well, those times are going away, and some people, the recipients, are losing their minds, the first to complain. Whereas, strong people who are sick and tired of our efforts being exploited and given away, sick and tired of excuses, sick and tired of weakness, are rising up. It's going to be a different world in 5 years.

 

[lunarious]

Inshallah

 

[Dagan]

I have a quite different opinion apparently. What I see in the world is a bunch of narcissists who gain more power, and "they" are who majority exploit, make excuses morse so (to do worse acts), complain more than anyone (constantly) and never stop trying to control people, wealth, etc. I see nothing to do with strong people vs. weak people. I see the haves vs. the have nots. I see (and hear) narcissists vs. folks who don't have to be materialistic control freaks to enjoy life.

Narcissists never shut up, never go away, never take accountability, never take responsibility, don't have true compassion for others, can't stop arguing what they think is better for everyone, always have to go after the new, shiny, best version of everything, never stop comparing themselves to others (deeming others inferior), don't know how to have actual conversations (because it's always just a debate they have to win), always have to have the last word, etc. etc. etc.

I've seen every religion, every political party, every major corporation, every royal family...become full of parasitic narcissists who manage to make it to the top one time or another and just ruin the original foundations that were supposed to be for the good of everyone.

I contend that the people with more strength are all of the rest of us who can still manage to go about life while tolerating such anger and madness going on. Besides...nothing gets under the skin of narcissists more than not participating in their BS. Good times.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

What I see in the world is a bunch of narcissists who gain more power, and "they" are who majority exploit, make excuses morse so (to do worse acts), complain more than anyone (constantly) and never stop trying to control people, wealth, etc.

The narcissists are the "weak", but they do have a talent for manipulation. As are the people who create the waste, fraud, and abuse for their own corrupt financial gain. Holding positions of power and influence doesn't always translate to moral, physical, or mental strength. They are parasites on society.

If you want to know who is threatened by active efforts to eliminate waste, fraud, abuse, and corruption, it's no secret. They "out" themselves by complaining loudly in the media. They "out" themselves by becoming multi-millionaires while "only" receiving a public servant's wages. Seems that they're not as intelligent as they think they are. Time for them to go.

 

[Dagan]

Understood. Agreed. They can belong to all sides of whatever issues, as well. No matter my ability to socialize in any forced moment, I'm thankful that I have adept study skills to better figure out people. Guilty by association has always been a thing, but it's way worse the last decade or so, me thinks. If only walking on eggshells was an Olympic sport.

 

[lunarious]

Opening post edited

 

[Dagan]

Per your edit, be careful not to come across as supporting those who choose pain / self-harm as coping or therapeutic. I personally don't think you mean that at all, but just know that some who are struggling with that may take some vindication in what you've written.

 

[lunarious]

Struggel is good