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Thanks for the welcome-Not Autistic-

grandma2nachy

New Member
I am Grandma to the love of my life, my grandson, and my firstborn grandchild. I am not Autistic. My grandson is 10 yr old now. We have known since preschool that something wasn't clicking with him. My daughter, a single mom, was at the mercy of our government agencies for testing, diagnosis, and then navigating school systems that could actually help with my grandson's specific challenges. He is now 10 years old, and I am no closer to understanding how to communicate to him about listening and remembering rules. I dont know how to get these things to stick with him. I don't like the way the rest of my family manages him and it doesn't work anyway, yet they continue to do it. Funding for the school he has been attending for many years now was taken away from public schools, which were paying for his tuition. Now he is back in the public school system in a special program at a location designed for children with a variety of needs. A new evaluation by a new Psychiatrist showed that when asked about his feelings and needs, he said he didn't have any friends and struggled with school. This is heartbreaking for me to hear and know that I haven't a clue how to help him. I just want to wave a magic wand and make it all better. But I am realistic and know that I am way out of my element here. Hoping to seek guidance and gain a deeper understanding by listening to others' stories, experiences, and opinions.
 
You omitted two very important things:
1. Is he ASD 1, ASD2, or ASD3?
2. Is he relatively intelligent?

(2) is difficult, but perhaps he's been tested?

We can definitely (100%) improve our social skills and generally improve our ability to deal with life in a world where we think differently to the vast majority. But while it's possible, it's not easy at all.

There's no way to know if you're in a position to do anything though. Perhaps someone else knows of a teaching program. BTW that means an established program, with proven results over a significant interval, and with a realistic sample size.

Anything that sounds easy is unlikely to be effective.
 
These are just a couple of generalisations but they might help in the way you deal with your grandson.

Neurodivergent kids don't follow the same mental growth patterns as "normal" children. There is no point in trying to teach a child something if the parts of their brain needed to deal with those concepts haven't finished developing. With autistic children intellectual maturity happens much faster than other children but social maturity doesn't even begin until much later. Trying to force an autistic child to socialise in environments they are simply not equipped to deal with achieves nothing other than long lasting trauma. You'll probably find that he gets along well with children much younger than himself and also with much older people but really struggles with relationships with other kids around his own age. For autistic kids this is normal.

For a lot of autistic people our level of intelligence is dramatically affected by our mental state of well being. If we're happy and feel safe we can achieve miracles but as soon as we start feeling pressured by others the wheels fall off it.
 
I know nothing about kids, but from personal experience and what I've read, the key to getting autistic people to understand rules is to explain why the rule exists. Because otherwise, it's just a random thing that you have to memorise, and a person only has so much memory to go around. Things you don't think are important (like random things that don't make any sense) tend to be the first to go when you need that memory space.

Everybody acts according to what they think best at the time (even if it doesn't make any sense to an outsider). So if someone doesn't understand why, then their actions are going to be based on that lack of understanding.

And when explaining why, remember that autistic people don't see the world the same way as neurotypicals, so a "neurotypical why" might not make any sense to an autistic child.

I think of navigating neurotypical culture as like being an anthropologist studying a lost tribe of cannibals: they have a complex culture with lots of seemingly arbitrary rules. Even they cannot explain all the rules, or even recognise that some of the rules exist. However, the rules are inflexible and if you contravene any of them, you will get eaten. Also, asking about the rules, whether they can explain them or not, is against the rules and you will get eaten. So, you know that you are going to get eaten at some point - the question is just when.

As an autistic person, therefore, your entire life consists of trying to figure out what these seemingly arbitrary rules are. It's very stressful. It's probably particularly stressful for children your grandson's age, who are old enough to understand that a) there are rules, b) they don't understand the rules, c) everyone else seems to understand the rules just fine, and d) they get punished for asking about the rules [because that's being cheeky/disrespectful]. Yet, they are are not old enough to have enough life experience to figure out for themselves what the rules are.

For example, things I've come across include...
- A lack of true participation in neurotypical social hierarchy. Autistic people tend to give respect based on whether it's earned based on what you do, not on who you are. So may not understand that certain classes of people should be treated with respect (older people, teachers etc) even when they're wrong/idiots. One can learn to understand the concept, but one never truly participates. One just learns to go through the motions and fake it. But that will probably need to be explained to a child.

- School (especially nowadays) can be very difficult for autistic kids because A) the emphasis on LOTS AND LOTS OF BRIGHT COLOURS can make the environment physically painful, B) rapid switches of topic/activity can be stressful/distressing to a mind that thrives on doing one thing properly, until it's done (or forever...) C) the modern obsession with "group work" is a nightmare for anyone who finds social interaction difficult. The approach to "Johnny is autistic and finds group work difficult/distressing" is often "Johnny should be made to do even more group work until he figures it out". There is no acknowledgement of the fact that Johnny finds group work difficult and stressful because he is neurologically different from the other kids and doesn't understand why they do what they do (and they're kids, so they just see him as weird, not as someone who needs help).

- Autism is often seen as a constellation of deficiencies and defects. Being treated as defective by the people around you (especially those you love) isn't going to be pleasant for anyone, particularly a child. Autism definitely does come with its deficiencies - but it also comes with strengths, which may be more or less apparent for different people. Making an effort to discover what your grandson does well, or could do well - if it were done differently - may help. There is often an emphasis on making autistic people do things the way neurotypicals would do them (because "that's the right way") instead of figuring out a more autistic-friendly way to get to the same desired endpoint. Yes, autistic people have to survive in neurotypical society and need the skills to do so - but sometimes the best way to do that is to work with the person's autistic characteristics, not against them.

- There is a lack of understanding that autistic people do things for logical reasons, like everyone else. The classic example is various types of stimming - like hand-flapping etc - that neurotypicals find weird and unsettling, and try to make autistic people stop doing (with threats of punishment/withholding of pleasure). Setting aside that this is treating the autistic person like an animal to be trained, it doesn't consider why the autistic person is stimming in the first place. It often/usually has a specific purpose, like reducing stress or aiding concentration. Since reduced stress and increased concentration are good things, why stop the autistic person doing something harmless (like hand-flapping), simply because neurotypicals don't like it? If it's not possible to simply accept the stimming and move on, a better approach would be to try to alter the environment to reduce stress and increase concentration so that stimming isn't needed. (And yes, autistic people have to live in the neurotypical world, so a certain amount of "fitting in" is necessary for a quiet life. But it should be done in a way that helps the autistic person, not in a way that results in them having to "mask" (fake neurotypical) so much that as soon as they're alone they collapse into a non-functional heap (or have a meltdown) because of the stress of it all.)

However, the first thing that any autistic person needs is someone who loves and accepts them for who they are, without putting demands on them to be somebody they're not. And it's sounds like for your grandson, that's you!
 
(And a lot of explaining things to an autistic kid will probably involve saying things like, "This makes absolutely no sense, but it's a rule. Other people think it's important because... If you don't obey the rule, then X, Y, or Z might happen. So if you don't want any of those to happen, try to follow the rule. If you really can't follow the rule, then you should...")

I think it takes a lot of courage for a neurotypical person to get into this, because nobody likes to admit that their cherished social customs make no logical sense whatsoever.
 
I know nothing about kids, but from personal experience and what I've read, the key to getting autistic people to understand rules is to explain why the rule exists.
This is true for me as well even in my older years, if a rule doesn't make sense I will simply ignore it.

Because otherwise, it's just a random thing that you have to memorise, and a person only has so much memory to go around. Things you don't think are important (like random things that don't make any sense) tend to be the first to go when you need that memory space.
This is a very good point too, although I don't think it's so much to do with how much memory we have as to how our memory works. I have an eidetic memory with pretty good recall, but in order for me to remember something it has to tie in with everything else I already know and understand. If it doesn't fit or "gel" with everything else I already know then it's rejected as being false.
 
Oh yes... I have an excellent long-term memory. I can remember facts from years ago, and I'm good at building up diagrams of related facts and procedures.

Short term memory? Not so much. If you ask me to do something and I don't write it down, five seconds later I will have forgotten it completely. My life revolves around lists, otherwise it would be anarchy.

Also, I have no ability to remember more than two items of a list. It can be either the first two or the last two - or maybe the first and last - but no more than two. Hence lists. Again. If you give me a bunch of instructions all at once and don't let me write them down, it's a recipe for failure and frustration on all sides.

Thinking about it, it may be something to do with "long-term" type facts being the sort of thing that (like @Outdated says) fits in with what I already know. Short-term stuff tends to not be fastened to anything.

How much might an autistic child's "disobedience" simply be poor short-term memory?
 

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