Teaching HFA - executive function limitations

[Mattymatt]

Thoughtful post, Cliff. Welcome to AF.

I can't help but wonder how your students themselves perceive such class exercises. That while you perceive them giving a very structured response, do they really perceive the exercise itself to be sufficiently structured so as not to frustrate or intimidate them?

I ask given it's my understanding that those on the spectrum with executive functioning deficits are more prone to having great difficulty with much of anything they regard as appearing to be "open-ended or unstructured" tasks. Potentially compounded if in fact these type of deficits are neurologically "hard-wired" for them. Where there may not be any way of really reaching them along such lines in the first place.

What I'm wondering is whether or not when you develop such exercises and problems, if there is some way of compartmentalizing them in a manner that makes it more conducive for your students to attempt to work the problem? Thinking of the prospect that giving the task more structure may encourage a student to work the problem rather than just shy away from it.

All of which may well resemble a sort of placebo effect. But hey...if it works, who cares?

Very insightful! I have Executive Functioning deficits and I do not do well with open-ended and unstructured tasks. I know this for a fact. I also don't deal well when I have many choices; the fewer the choices I have the better I handle a decision to be made. Sometimes when I have open-ended tasks, I get frustrated and this can (unfortunately) manifest itself in anger because I can't "figure it out."

 

[Bella Pines]

"Mary has a rectangular garden with dimensions 10 m by 4 m. She extends it by a common border so it is 50% bigger. How big is the border?"

Okay for this one I started understanding it, but as you explained it you lost me. Areas, quadratics, formulae solving. Too much extraneous information. And if you lose me, and I have a college degree in physics, then the kids will get quite probably get confused.

HFA comes with hyperfocus. Specializations. The HFA brain works well if it can completely understand a problem down to a quantum level. Why, how. Most people work in a procedural way and the education system facilitates this. Learn the steps, learn how to solve a particular problem in a particular way. But throw a curve ball and it falls apart.

So for this one I would recommend teaching area. In every way possible. Magnetic rectangles, equilateral triangle that fit into hexagons, keep it 2D.

Then move to perimeter. Measure the perimeter of shapes, the perimeter of your notebook, the perimeter of the room. The perimeter of their equilateral triangles.

Then move to percent. Divide a square into 2, divide a hexagon into 2, focus on 50%.

Once the HFA kids completely comprehend area, perimeter and percent. Tell them to extend the garden along the wide length and leave them to it.

If they fully understand and can visualize all aspects of the problem. They will not only be able to tell you the border, all the areas, how much it will cost Mary to get the work done and how many neighbors she will piss off in the process.

 

[Bella Pines]

This is the doppler shift for light, it tells you how the color of light you see (f') depends on how fast an object which sends out the light moves (v).

Can you attach a siren to one of their heads and get them to run really fast ?

 

[Bella Pines]

"There is a block on an incline of an angle of 10 degrees which has a frictional coefficient of 0.15. If there is an applied force of 15% of the weight of the block at an angle of 30 degrees above the incline, what is the acceleration of the block."

Teach newton's second law thoroughly first. Get them to apply it to apples and balls and cars.

Then go to the nearest park and teach friction on slides.

Then combine the concepts.

 

[Judge]

Very insightful! I have Executive Functioning deficits and I do not do well with open-ended and unstructured tasks. I know this for a fact. I also don't deal well when I have many choices; the fewer the choices I have the better I handle a decision to be made. Sometimes when I have open-ended tasks, I get frustrated and this can (unfortunately) manifest itself in anger because I can't "figure it out."

Thanks, Matt. Actually it's taken me a long time in interacting with my autistic peers to come to grips with how differently many of us process executive functioning. Where there are those with varying difficulties in cognitive reasoning processes but also those who may have virtually no resources to draw upon when it comes to such thought processes. Further impacted by possible comorbid conditions like ADHD that can make such thought processes even more difficult.

Given the nature of Cliff's concern as an educator, I'm just wondering how much in the way of neurological background information he is capable of accruing on his students- if any. That it's critical to grasp how individually different- and capable or not we on the spectrum can actually be when it comes to executive functioning, and any other conditions that may impact cognitive reasoning.

I know the NIH has a lot to say on this issue, although it's not easy reading. But there are some passages that are quite explicit along such lines: "Furthermore, the most consistent and striking difficulties are seen on tasks that are open-ended in structure, lack explicit instructions and involve arbitrary rules."

So it likely does become incumbent on an educator to figure out how to narrow down an exercise and compartmentalize it sufficiently for an autistic mind to grasp and get around such hurdles, if and when possible.

Personally I believe that executive functioning is at the heart of our ability to lead independent lives as adults. Even more so than whatever deficits we may have with social interaction in general.

Metacognitive Aspects of Executive Function Are Highly Associated with Social Functioning on Parent-Rated Measures in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder

 

[the_tortoise]

My issue isn't that they are not doing what I ask, it is that I don't know how to direct them that will enable them to progress. If I can't get them to change these habits they will bottom out in math/sciences. I want to find a way to get them to :

• see the paper as a tool which saves precious mental resources
• explore problems which don't have obvious solutions

The latter is fairly important outside the classroom, it is rare in live to know what you are supposed to do, at times the most you can do is try to do something which seems like it can move you forward, taking feed back as it happens and correct as necessary.

The paper may save you precious mental resources, but for them it may be a drain on precious mental resources.

How do you know they aren't exploring those problems? Perhaps they are, and just can't prove it you -- or perhaps they aren't but they would, if they could do so in a way that actually makes sense and works for them.

Open your mind to the possibility that methodology which makes things easier for you makes things harder for them. Perhaps if you allow them to see things their way and work within their perspective rather than imposing your own, you might have better success. (e.g. Accept that they may not see the paper as a useful way to save precious mental resources -- accept that they may never see the paper that way....and ideally, consider the possibility that this is perfectly fine and not necessaily a hindrance to their learning ; Find another way to convince them it is worthwhile showing their work when it is necessary to prove or communicate their calculations to others, based on their perspectives, not yours.)

 

[Mary Anne]

I've been teaching young adult HFAs for years as a volunteer for the GED program and have experienced this many times. Other posters have offered good suggestions here.

One of the things I do is to solve math problems, one step at a time, on the chalk board so they can all follow along with each step. After we do numerous math problems on the board, I start asking them to tell me what would be the next step to solve the problem. Repetition and practice helps some students understand how to methodically solve the problems by breaking them down into each small step. The GED exam requires them to show each step in solving the problem so it is important for them to be able to display what they are doing. Some are so smart that they can solve incredibly complex problems in their heads but cannot demonstrate or explain how they do it.

A lack of understanding of negative and positive numbers is often the problem, as well as not knowing order of operation, so we have to go back to the basics before we can advance to the tougher problems.

When students make noises, stim, or shut down, I just whisper or quietly say "discipline" to them to remind them to try to get a grip on their reactions. If they appear near meltdown, we take a break so they can walk around, get a drink or snack, and I turn off the horrible humming overhead lights for a while.

I am nearly 62 and still do not understand negative numbers, why they exist, or why we should care about the,. I feel direct kinship to your students. I have never utilized a negative number in my life except for a negative balance in my bank account long ago.

 

[Mattymatt]

Thanks, Matt. Actually it's taken me a long time in interacting with my autistic peers to come to grips with how differently many of us process executive functioning. Where there are those with varying difficulties in cognitive reasoning processes but also those who may have virtually no resources to draw upon when it comes to such thought processes. Further impacted by possible comorbid conditions like ADHD that can make such thought processes even more difficult.

Given the nature of Cliff's concern as an educator, I'm just wondering how much in the way of neurological background information he is capable of accruing on his students- if any. That it's critical to grasp how individually different- and capable or not we on the spectrum can actually be when it comes to executive functioning, and any other conditions that may impact cognitive reasoning.

I know the NIH has a lot to say on this issue, although it's not easy reading. But there are some passages that are quite explicit along such lines: "Furthermore, the most consistent and striking difficulties are seen on tasks that are open-ended in structure, lack explicit instructions and involve arbitrary rules."

So it likely does become incumbent on an educator to figure out how to narrow down an exercise and compartmentalize it sufficiently for an autistic mind to grasp and get around such hurdles, if and when possible.

Personally I believe that executive functioning is at the heart of our ability to lead independent lives as adults. Even more so than whatever deficits we may have with social interaction in general.

Metacognitive Aspects of Executive Function Are Highly Associated with Social Functioning on Parent-Rated Measures in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder

This probably explains why I struggle so much as an adult and will continue to struggle for the rest of my life.

 

[Mary Terry]

Physics is beyond my ability. I have never taken a physics class. I can barely understand Cliff's physics example and certainly could not solve it without someone teaching me how to do it but I can (usually) do algebra and geometry. If Cliff asked me to solve the physics problem, I'd probably moan and put my head on the desk or call my mama to come get me, too!

Like Judge and others are saying, the students need clear rules, structure, and a very methodical approach to solving the problems. The academic level that I teach is less demanding than what Cliff is teaching because the GED is easier than standard high school academic math requirements. My students have already been unable to graduate from high school for many different reasons so they are trying to get a GED for future educational goals, employment or simply personal pride.

So, I'm lightweight compared to Cliff's tasks and subject matter, but I have the best success with going slowly, repetitively, step by step, simplifying everything I can down to its most basic terms, using drawings or other visual depictions of the problem and the problem solving steps as well as verbal instruction. Some students don't process verbal info very well while others don't process visual info very well so you have to use every available tactic or device to help them understand.

I think the most common reason why the students cannot - and refuse to even try - to solve the problems is because they do not understand, they know they do not understand, they know they will fail before they even begin, and they don't want to experience that failure. So you have to go back to the simplest, most basic rules and methods, so the students can absorb the basics and build their confidence. Praise them when they get it right. When their answer is wrong, say "uh oh, we need to work on that!", or words to that effect which don't hurt their feelings or make them feel inadequate and which reassures them that you are there to help them learn, that you and they are part of a learning team - a "we're all in this together and we're not going to quit until we get it right" kind of a message.

For example, when they don't understand positive and negative numbers, I draw on the board and have them draw on paper, a number scale much like a ruler, with zero in the middle, negative numbers on the left, positive numbers on the right. Then use that drawing to do the calculation by counting the spaces. That is a visual, hands-on way to learn. Most of us learned that in grade school but sometimes my students just never learned it or they have forgotten it.

I spend a lot of time on teaching the essential order of operations to solve algebra equations. The order is a clear rule that they can understand, and it works by specific, ordered, smaller steps. I write the order on the black board so it is always visible to them (unless they are taking a test) and have them write it on paper:

Parenthesis, Exponents, Multiplication and Division, Addition and Subtraction. Always perform the operations inside a parenthesis first, then do exponents.

We practice, practice, practice. I know some of them get bored (so I assign harder problems to them) with the repetition that the slower students need, but all of them totally deserve every bit of help I can give them. While I want all of them to ace the GED, I know that some will never be able to pass it no matter how long they study or who teaches them or what teaching method is used. It's just a sad fact of life that I have to accept. But I'll keep trying as long as they will.

 

[CliffStamp]

Teach newton's second law thoroughly first.

I tried to give some background information in the introductory post, but it seems my intended point was lost in the process, I will summarize. I have two concerns :

1. they will attempt full mental solutions of problems and only write down final answers
2. if they can't see where to start, they will not do anything, they won't explore

The consequences of the first issue are two fold :

• on exams, on questions they can answer even easily, they often get 0/5 in questions because they made a simple calculation mistake
• there are some questions which are impossible for them because the mental load is too high and they can't keep track of all of the quantities and do the required solve/simplification

The consequences of the second are also two fold :

• there are problems they could solve if they explored for which they would get full marks
• there are some problems which are likely impossible (or at least *very* difficult) without exploration because there isn't in general a specific way to start

For all of the extended answer problems you often get 1-2 marks for just identifying what you are given, what is the relation, etc. even if you can't solve it. Hence a lot of kids can pass just due to formal structure alone :

1. draw a diagram
2. write down the unknowns
3. identify what is being asked
4. do all unit conversions

That alone can get you 2/5 and you have not even identified the binding relation yet, if you do that you typically will pass the questions.

Again, to clarify, there is no issue with the underlying theory or concepts, if you asked these kids things like :

• what is the doppler effect
• what is newtons second law
• what are alternate interior angles
• how do you solve an unfactorable quadratic

They would answer without concerns.

 

[Mary Terry]

I am nearly 62 and still do not understand negative numbers, why they exist, or why we should care about the,. I feel direct kinship to your students. I have never utilized a negative number in my life except for a negative balance in my bank account long ago.

I totally understand how you feel! That's why I have a liberal arts undergraduate degree, a juris doctorate advanced degree, and practiced law for nearly 40 years. I actually hate math but I have always liked sciences that are dependent on math such as chemistry so I had to learn it.

 

[Judge]

if they can't see where to start, they will not do anything, they won't explore

I've always had a terrible time trying to master a concept that I couldn't relate to in a non-linear fashion.

Reminds me of why I had such a tough time understanding Macromedia Flash. Until someone explained to me in a 15 minute conversation not to interpret the "stage" as a timeline. That one can go backwards or forwards with individual functions without any consideration to sequence.

I also had difficulties with most anything asymmetrical.

But in my case these were also things that I could neurologically negotiate or overcome. However it's critical to understand that for some, their mind may be hard-wired in such a way where they simply have no way to understand such things. That it isn't a matter of "won't", but truly a matter of "can't".

That there isn't necessarily a method that can overcome such things in such cases. That's why it might be extremely helpful to "underwrite" your students individually to determine their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[CliffStamp]

How do you know they aren't exploring those problems?

Because I talk to them and they tell me exactly what they are doing. Look here is the thing, I don't want them to work on paper because it is easy for me, I want them to do it because the way they are trying to do it is causing them to fail for issues noted in the above.

• they constantly get 0/5 on questions on tests which have the wrong answer due to a simple arithmetic mistake, even though they had all the fundamentals right, but they didn't write any of it down so they can't get credit
• one of them got 1/10 on a lab which was essentially perfectly done, they just didn't write down the recorded data and just answered the questions (without workings) as the data came in
• they can't do more involved problems because they get mentally over loaded trying to remember all of the variables, conversions and do the algebra
• they can't do free form problems because they can't see where to start as there is no clear path from what is given to where you end up

To clarify, these kids are in advanced tracks doing math/physics, in regards to the latter example, they are expected to solve problems where there is no set solution, but you are expected to take what you are given, see what you can calculate, and repeat this until you end up with the answer.

But for them, unless they can see the entire process mentally and work it out, they won't do calculate any intermediates. What they do is look at the answer, look at what they are given and see if there is a path from one to the other. In order to get this path you have to remember all the steps along the way, the load becomes too high and they bail out. Again not assumptions, they will verbally recount what they are doing.

 

[CliffStamp]

....and ideally, consider the possibility that this is perfectly fine and not necessaily a hindrance to their learning

This simply can't be the case because there are high demands on written output in exams and tests and in labs hence they have to do it or won't pass those courses, and each year the demands get higher. Their grades have been dropping steadily since about grade eight as these loads became higher, they were once strong A students.

The consequences will just keep getting more severe a well. Now they fail all the labs because of lack of written detail, this just loses them ~10% of their grade, but in university if you fail a lab you just fail the course (here), so it means they simply can not do first year lab courses (which is both science and math). They both are interested in a career in those fields, hence it is a skill they have to be able to master, or at least be competent.

Outside of class it is even more of a demand, if you actually work in a lab there are extreme demands on recording detail, there have to be very precise recording of exactly what was done when, full detail, because everyone else has to be able to redo your work, you can't hold things in your head.

I have only been working with these kids for a few weeks and I only have a few weeks before exams. If I can't make a significant impact or at least show one is possible, it is very likely one or both of them could be forced to switch out of the tracks they are in which is unfortunate because they could do it, if anything their math/science abilities are above average, but their lack of written output is severely crippling their grades/progress.

Now those two issues are very general, I see them in lots of kids (it happens to a lot of kids who are above average at around grade 8-9). But they can usually be turned around in a week or two with just gentle insistence on rigor, and the obvious results to them that things do get easier, and there is an immediate rapid increase in their grades.

 

[AloneNotLonely]

My math went from 10/10 on every test to 3-4/10 on every test within a couple years. I would recalculate my tests and every single time I would have 100% correct answers, but my math teacher was unable to communicate the requirements for calculating the problems correctly. Any attempt I made at writing it down was "incorrect".

These days I write down everything. I mean everything. Too much. 3 years down the line, not understanding where exactly a number came from is... not nice and you have to do the whole calculation again, only this time you have to dig up information that is 3 years old. Not cool.

Attempt to explain the answers to them and communicate exactly what is required. Show a problem with an example of what constitutes a correct answer. Try to use as little words as possible and as many formulae/numbers that would be acceptable. Words in math are kryptonite for autistics. Make a few attempts at it and start simple and short. Like 1 step problems. Then 2 step problems. Etc. Start with problems they can actually solve in their head. And explain to them the syntax they need to use for the answer, despite the fact that they can just write down 1 number after doing the calculations in their head.

If they still throw temper tantrums and have meltdowns then, I would say it's time to throw in the towel and figure out if there's any other direction they can take that is more suitable for them. I understand the frustration they feel (I once felt the same) but such a method would have worked on me, and if they can't adapt then that is not an area in which they would be able to excel.

 

[Mary Terry]

I've always had a terrible time trying to master a concept that I couldn't relate to in a non-linear fashion.

I tend to think in flowchart format. If X happens, then Y or Z could follow, if Y happens then A or C could follow, if Z happens then D or F could follow. Practicing law probably encourages that type of thought process and analysis, and I can tell from your postings that you know a great deal about the law.

 

[Progster]

A while back, I made an account at Khan Academy to try to improve my Maths skills. At first, while it was easy, I really liked it, but as it got harder, I started getting really frustrated with it and had to give it up.

 

[Mary Terry]

This simply can't be the case because there are high demands on written output in exams and tests and in labs hence they have to do it or won't pass those courses, and each year the demands get higher. Their grades have been dropping steadily since about grade eight as these loads became higher, they were once strong A students.

The consequences will just keep getting more severe a well. Now they fail all the labs because of lack of written detail, this just loses them ~10% of their grade, but in university if you fail a lab you just fail the course (here), so it means they simply can not do first year lab courses (which is both science and math). They both are interested in a career in those fields, hence it is a skill they have to be able to master, or at least be competent.

Outside of class it is even more of a demand, if you actually work in a lab there are extreme demands on recording detail, there have to be very precise recording of exactly what was done when, full detail, because everyone else has to be able to redo your work, you can't hold things in your head.

I have only been working with these kids for a few weeks and I only have a few weeks before exams. If I can't make a significant impact or at least show one is possible, it is very likely one or both of them could be forced to switch out of the tracks they are in which is unfortunate because they could do it, if anything their math/science abilities are above average, but their lack of written output is severely crippling their grades/progress.

Now those two issues are very general, I see them in lots of kids (it happens to a lot of kids who are above average at around grade 8-9). But they can usually be turned around in a week or two with just gentle insistence on rigor, and the obvious results to them that things do get easier, and there is an immediate rapid increase in their grades.

Cliff - I'm sure you've already done it, but make sure they understand that they must write down the steps, the detail, the data or else they will fail the test. If they understand that writing down the details is an essential, non-negotiable component of passing the test, then they should be more willing to do it.

I see a lot of simple math errors in my students' work because they go too fast when solving problems. I constantly remind them that even if they know how to solve the problems, they need to take their time to avoid simple math mistakes.

 

[CliffStamp]

If they understand that writing down the details is an essential, non-negotiable component of passing the test, then they should be more willing to do it.

It is stated clearly on the test on all long answer questions (because there are very powerful calculators now that can do a lot of problems by themselves), on their marked test it is an almost constant complaint. Even if they get the right answer they won't get full marks. They are just very rigid in behavior, and have the belief it isn't necessary and so it is unfair/unreasonable to demand it.

If you ask them something like "If you were to just write down the answer on a test on a long answer question, what would you get?" They will tell you they won't get full marks. If you ask them about it they will just say that isn't fair. They are well aware of it, they just refuse to adapt to the environment. Similar if you give them a question they can't do mentally they think it is an unfair question to ask as it is impossible to solve.

I have tried going slow, like asking them to just write down the equation they are using (if you straight up tell them it can set off very disruptive behavior) - but again I just run into a wall of that is not necessary and it is an unfair request.

The way I understand it is similar to this, imagine you were doing some math and I said to you :

"Look, every time you write out a solution I want all of your equal signs to be perfectly aligned. I should be able to take a ruler and run it right down the middle and it should be absolutely perpendicular. If you don't do this you just get zero, even if your answers were right."

If you conceded and did this silly thing, I could add more and more silly constraints like "Ok, now all solutions have to be indented, and perfectly left aligned, and all of your variables have to be printed in perfect shape, or again you just get zero."

At some point you are likely to refuse to work and refuse to do anything because you would see the demands as unnecessary, pointless and you would think I am really unfair/unjust (and likely mush harsher words) for demanding all of this when it is not needed.

That is how they seem to see requests for more detail.

 

[Judge]

It is stated clearly on the test on all long answer questions (because there are very powerful calculators now that can do a lot of problems by themselves), on their marked test it is an almost constant complaint. Even if they get the right answer they won't get full marks. They are just very rigid in behavior, and have the belief it isn't necessary and so it is unfair/unreasonable to demand it.

If you ask them something like "If you were to just write down the answer on a test on a long answer question, what would you get?" They will tell you they won't get full marks. If you ask them about it they will just say that isn't fair. They are well aware of it, they just refuse to adapt to the environment. Similar if you give them a question they can't do mentally they think it is an unfair question to ask as it is impossible to solve.

I have tried going slow, like asking them to just write down the equation they are using (if you straight up tell them it can set off very disruptive behavior) - but again I just run into a wall of that is not necessary and it is an unfair request.

The way I understand it is similar to this, imagine you were doing some math and I said to you :

"Look, every time you write out a solution I want all of your equal signs to be perfectly aligned. I should be able to take a ruler and run it right down the middle and it should be absolutely perpendicular. If you don't do this you just get zero, even if your answers were right."

If you conceded and did this silly thing, I could add more and more silly constraints like "Ok, now all solutions have to be indented, and perfectly left aligned, and all of your variables have to be printed in perfect shape, or again you just get zero."

At some point you are likely to refuse to work and refuse to do anything because you would see the demands as unnecessary, pointless and you would think I am really unfair/unjust (and likely mush harsher words) for demanding all of this when it is not needed.

That is how they seem to see requests for more detail.

Your example seems almost a classic example of "Cognitive Rigidity". Where your goal as the instructor is "Cognitive Flexibility". Researching these specific terms relative to ASD just might be the key towards helping you- and your students with such issues.

Cognitive Rigidity: The 8-Ball From Hell