Should Those on the Spectrum Operate Commercial Vehicles?

[Sportster]

My good friend (the same discussed in another thread) recently secured a position driving a bus. It caused me to wonder if that’s a safe thing considering his mental state at times. It also caused me to think of my time as an over-the-road driver.

Like many on the spectrum, I took to driving right away and even advanced to the point of driving commercial vehicles. I was okay going through training, but when reality set in and I had to actually jockey a truck, the ASD became a serious problem. On more than one occasion I found myself having what I call a mini meltdown because of the traffic, crowded docks, etc. The sensory overload of a city while trying to jockey an 80,000-pound 70 to 80-foot long vehicle through traffic can be very overwhelming, as you have to watch what you’re doing, watch what the others are doing, and keep from killing anyone in the process. There were even a few times when I just froze up for several minutes and couldn’t move, which could be a serious problem.

So do you think those on the spectrum should be disqualified from driving large commercial vehicles? If not, how can there be a guarantee they will not experience a meltdown or some sort of episode that would render them incapable? If you do think they should be disqualified, then why?

This is a difficult subject to consider because one wants to be fair, but at the same time there are serious safety concerns.

 

[Judge]

I'd think such an assessment would be handled on an individual basis. Much like how the armed forces would evaluate a recruit in terms of suitability for military service.

Traits and behaviors are so varied...and with different amplitudes to consider. Where some will do better than others depending on their skill and aptitude.

 

[the_tortoise]

So do you think those on the spectrum should be disqualified from driving large commercial vehicles? If not, how can there be a guarantee they will not experience a meltdown or some sort of episode that would render them incapable?

No, I don't think they should be automatically disqualified, I think individuals with ASD should be evaluated individually.

Not all of us have sensory issues and meltdowns -- and when we do, we vary quite a lot in terms of what specific things we are sensitive to and/or what causes us to have meltdowns (what things we struggle to cope with/what overwhelms us).

Even NTs can have meltdowns in certain circumstances.....you can't guarantee for any person that they will never have some kind of episode that would render them incapable at some point during their career, all you can do is careful risk assessment and management.

 

[Pats]

I can't say I think those on the spectrum SHOULD operate a commercial vehicle, but I do think if one is qualified I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Mattymatt]

The Autism spectrum is pretty large but I would say that if you have visual-spatial difficulties, as I do, then driving a commercial motor vehicle is probably not a good idea. I had a lot of difficulty learning to drive a tractor trailer and I do not do it well. I can do it easily on a highway or where the roads are open and have less traffic but the city was a form of fire and brimstone one could only imagine. I am not really a fan of disqualifying folks on the spectrum because you could eliminate someone quite capable that only has social and communicative deficits.

I found that I did okay driving small to medium-sized shuttle buses of about 20-40 passengers. Certainly it was a big vehicle but I could manage it without melting down. I could even handle a 72 passenger school bus without much difficulty. On the other hand, I could never drive a motorcoach into a places like New York City, Washington D.C, or Boston.

There are real and tangible safety concerns when operating a 40 ton motor vehicle. Tractor trailer drivers are responsible for four things simultaneously: their safety, the safety of their cargo, the safety of the motoring public, and safe/defensive driving. This doesn't translate well for someone like me that has difficulty multi-tasking as well. Also, driving a commercial motor vehicle is only getting more difficult and dangerous as the years go by because the size of the roads aren't getting larger in proportion to the increase in the number of cars on the road. As each year goes by, the number of cars on the road goes up by a not insignificant number. My instructor at CDL school said that truck driving was much easier in the 80s up until the mid 90s. He explained that this was because there were much fewer automobiles on the road (and even fewer trucks.) It was easier to find parking as well. The easy times are gone. The only thing that has gotten easier has been the advent of an automated manual transmission in which a computer takes care of clutching and shifting. The driver now needs only throw it in drive or reverse and go.

 

[Judge]

I agree, but what type of test? Is there such a test available? Since you understand insurance, what about the insurance and liability implications? Using me as an example, can you imagine me trying to pull a tanker loaded with fuel through downtown Reno only to become overwhelmed by the lights, traffic, everything and then have an episode?

Another tough question.

Individual medical evaluation. Sadly the kind that is anything but objective, IMO. And yes, there's no way for a process like that to be perfect.

As far as insurance goes they're always regulated by law. Very difficult to discriminate beyond what a state's DMV can do.

 

[Pats]

I know the trucking company I worked at once required physicals as part of qualifications to drive and the insurance was pretty much the deciding factor - vision, no back problems, history of blacking out, etc would not qualify because of the liabilities.

 

[Judge]

I know the trucking company I worked at once required physicals as part of qualifications to drive and the insurance was pretty much the deciding factor - vision, no back problems, history of blacking out, etc would not qualify because of the liabilities.

Yep- analysis of individual medical evaluations. Though in California back in the 80s even some of those considerations were curtailed through legislated insurance reform. In that respect there may be some critical differences from one state's scrutiny to another.

 

[Judge]

When I joined the Army I went through a battery of tests that included psychological, but back then ASD was virtually unknown so all they looked for was any indication that I would run off and sell secrets to the Russians or have a desire to marry my mother.

It's upsetting to see the requirements of the armed services to continue to be ambiguous and so largely in control of whomever is examining you. When I first came to this community the guidelines seemed much clearer than they are today.

But yes, beyond a certain point in time they really didn't pay much attention to forms of autism that might go by unnoticed. Which reflects the handful of former veterans we have here like yourself. Some get through...some don't. But it sure doesn't look as good now as it did earlier. But then I can only go buy what I read about online through both military and civilian sources.

I'd like to think such exams for trucking would hopefully be more objective...but who knows?

 

[Pats]

Well, when I worked for that trucking company it was late 70'3, and early 80's.
I don't actually put much stock in any kind of mental tests because it's too easy to answer in a way to pass. If you mentally know something is a problem and you want to pass the test, you're going to answer it in whatever way to pass the test. My X, the con artist could lie about everything and still pass a polygraph. He lied to get into the air force, then he lied to get an honorable discharge to get out of the airforce. So, just from what I've seen from my past - I don't think there are any sure ways of testing someone's mental capacities unless it's just something too obvious to hide. If those of us who are so good at masking continued to mask on these tests, it's not going to show anything out of the norm.

 

[Judge]

I was fortunate in that I adapted to the military quite well. When I arrived at my duty station they quickly realized that I was not suited for field work (Customs MP), but I had a knack for research. I was the guy behind the scenes gathering info on subjects, witnesses, etc. That was long before the advent of computers, the internet, cell-phones, etc. I did it all bu going through files and index cards.

That's the irony of it all. The organization, the discipline- the simplicity of military life. For some it can be very appealing, even from the perspective of one on the spectrum. Funny to think my parents used to argue over whether the military would have been a good fit for me.

But my own intuition came to the conclusion that it would not be in my best interest, as well as entertaining other government service opportunities that I seriously considered many years ago.

Yet reading your CID job in the military...yeah. I might have liked that.

 

[Judge]

So, just from what I've seen from my past - I don't think there are any sure ways of testing someone's mental capacities unless it's just something too obvious to hide. If those of us who are so good at masking continued to mask on these tests, it's not going to show anything out of the norm.

Indeed, though I think the optimal word would be "the past".

These days I suspect the bulk of that equation lies with whatever official digitized medical records exists pertinent to one's mental and neurological condition. That if they're on record, there may not be a lot you can evade or color in the eyes of the medical professional examining you.

Otherwise as in the case of "No Time For Sergeants", just tell them you don't dream at all.

Things were never the same ever since....

 

[Judge]

I think the routine and knowing what was expected of me is what made it easy for me. I wasn't even bothered too much during the live fire exercise when you have to low crawl while they're shooting over your head and things are exploding around you. To me it was like a game or something . . . it was part of the routine.

Yes- "part of the routine". That can be a big deal to one on the spectrum. Something to appreciate and hang onto for dear life. Another positive thing that NT medical examiners may or may not give much thought to.

 

[Pats]

I agree for the most part, but nothing is fool proof.

 

[Judge]

I agree for the most part, but nothing is fool proof.

Especially things like polygraph exams. Which continue to be treated like a gold standard of truth, when for some they can be so easily evaded. If one is clever enough and motivated with criminal intent, some can get very far into deceiving the system and everyone around them. That much is true.

 

[TempeFan]

I had a boss once who drove and carried a gun as part of the job. He had also been diagnosed with epilepsy, though he showed no outward signs, as it was well under control. It was a government job and he was cleared for duty. He was a very good boss, which is very rare. After decades in the workforce, I can honestly say I felt much safer with him in charge than I did around most of the other people I've worked for and with who had no documented impairments. Stupid Bubbas are far more dangerous on the job.

A melt down or other medical emergency can afflict anyone at any time. If an autistic person can do the job better and safer than an incompetence careless drunken texting NT, that's who should have the job, especially if there are lives at stake. Of course, a person with meltdowns or vertigo or chemical abuse issues or narcolepsy or other actual ailments that impair their ability to drive safely should be grounded. No one has the right to deny employment based on government officials' false assumptions of ridiculous absolutes.

Discriminating against all people in a group, just because some in that group might have a condition which might flare up is still discrimination and always wrong. It's bad enough that employers are too ignorant and prejudice to allow people on the spectrum to have jobs as it is. They don't need more laws to encourage them to be more unfair. More laws made means more laws disproportionately misapplied.

 

[BraidedPony]

I drive my cargo van just fine and I have no idea why my neighbors NEVER park next to me.

 

[Graphin]

Actually i believe some would be better at operating those vehicles

 

[Judge]

Actually i believe some would be better at operating those vehicles

It's entirely possible.

 

[Graphin]

Partially because many seem to be much more wary