Self Diagnosis; Why the Controversy?

[Brent]

Please tone down the aggressive tone of the posts in here or the thread will be locked.

 

[Mia]

What I find most tragic about this debate is a kind of hierarchical supremacy between diagnosed and undiagnosed people. Somehow if you are diagnosed, you are a person with Asperger's or autism, otherwise you are a pretender, or somehow not really on the spectrum, which I find insulting and offensive.

People on the spectrum already deal daily in the allistic world with discrimination. And yet here people readily discriminate in this thread against other Aspies who are self-diagnosed.

There are countries in the world that discriminate against people on the spectrum, where it's better not to be diagnosed. My own province classes autism as a mental illness. There are also thousands of people around the world who have autism and have never been diagnosed. Many like myself over fifty who had to fit it, and learn to live in the neurotypical world without aid or government help of any kind.

Take your diagnosis and shove it, I've had enough of Aspie supremacy.

 

[Full Steam]

What I find most tragic about this debate is a kind of hierarchical supremacy between diagnosed and undiagnosed people. Somehow if you are diagnosed, you are a person with Asperger's or autism, otherwise you are a pretender, or somehow not really on the spectrum, which I find insulting and offensive.

People on the spectrum already deal daily in the allistic world with discrimination. And yet here people readily discriminate in this thread against other Aspies who are self-diagnosed.

There are countries in the world that discriminate against people on the spectrum, where it's better not to be diagnosed. My own province classes autism as a mental illness. There are also thousands of people around the world who have autism and have never been diagnosed. Many like myself over fifty who had to fit it, and learn to live in the neurotypical world without aid or government help of any kind.

Take your diagnosis and shove it, I've had enough of Aspie supremacy.

I agree.

I've seen this in other marginalised groups where the marginalised sub-divide so a sub-group can feel itself to be superior to the rest. Then they can deal with others who are actually just like themselves in the same way that the majorities have dealt with them.

I find anything like this very sad and I am 100% against it in any form.

 

[Mia]

Even better, how about we divide the website? Undiagnosed in one part, and diagnosed in another area. That way it could be like North and South Korea or Northern Ireland or East Germany. You can stay in your little world that way.

 

[Bolletje]

I hope I didn't give off the impression that I consider people that have self-diagnosed to be lesser, or frauds. Just because I want a professional assessment and diagnosis for my own peace of mind, doesn't mean others should do the same.
I'm not here to enforce my standards on others, I'm here to find support in a community of like-minded individuals, whether officially diagnosed, self-diagnosed or not diagnosed at all. No need to whip out doctor's notes to prove you have a right to be here, IMO.

 

[Bookmaker]

I used to be self-diagnosed. I am now professionally diagnosed. The only difference is that I paid a lot of money to obtain confirmation of what I already knew. A professional diagnosis is helpful if wanting to convince others, to get accommodations at work, or to obtain benefits.

I was just as autistic prior to the professional diagnosis as after.

People who have a professional diagnosis should respect those who don't think they need one or can't afford one. The last thing anyone on the spectrum needs is someone invalidating them.

I wish these topics would be closed as soon as they are started.

 

[Manuheleku]

I used to be self-diagnosed. I am now professionally diagnosed. The only difference is that I paid a lot of money to obtain confirmation of what I already knew. A professional diagnosis is helpful if wanting to convince others, to get accommodations at work, or to obtain benefits.

I was just as autistic prior to the professional diagnosis as after.

People who have a professional diagnosis should respect those who don't think they need one or can't afford one. The last thing anyone on the spectrum needs is someone invalidating them.

I wish these topics would be closed as soon as they are started.

True, I spent hundreds of dollars for my son to figure out his issues, I don't need to spend the same on myself. With my son we got our money's worth, myself, wouldn't be economically feasible.

 

[Jason T]

Seeing how it's nearly impossible for a 50 plus adult male to get a diagnosis because they have spent their entire lives learning how to adapt to an NT world, sometimes self diagnosis is the only option.

Not true. I am in that age range and had my diagnosis in just the last couple years. I did not go to just any psychologist or therapist, I did choose someone who specializes in autism spectrum disorders. Much of the discussions and questions were geared towards ruling out various disorders. An official diagnosis is a process of elimination, where in my opinion, self diagnosis is the opposite.

 

[Full Steam]

Not true. I am in that age range and had my diagnosis in just the last couple years..

You mean that wasn't true for you.

You have no way of knowing about anyone else so your statement is personal and not correct.

 

[Manuheleku]

Not true. I am in that age range and had my diagnosis in just the last couple years. I did not go to just any psychologist or therapist, I did choose someone who specializes in autism spectrum disorders. Much of the discussions and questions were geared towards ruling out various disorders. An official diagnosis is a process of elimination, where in my opinion, self diagnosis is the opposite.

Sounds like you got lucky. Trying to find a specialist for me has been a choir. The ad, website, whatever says that they are a specialist, usually means for children, going in as an adult they don't know where to proceed. I had one psychiatrist who asked me about my interests and suggested that I join a car club to meet people and become more socially active. I have no desire to be any more socially active. I don't want to share my interests, I was in a car club at one time, didn't do anything for me. He basically came up with a half dozen things that could be symptomatic of Aspergers and decided I was depressed and was suffering from anxiety and I would benefit from doing something that normally causes me even more anxiety. Sigh.

 

[Judge]

Personally I find it reprehensible to imagine those of us not formally diagnosed who would be compelled or coerced into lying about it just to pacify spectrum mindsets who might insist upon it. Hopefully no one here has felt they needed to resort to such a thing.

Tragically this would constitute yet another form of social-masking in an attempt to fit into a world so quick to reject us for not living up to their expectations. A social dynamic that both diagnosed and un-diagnosed people on the spectrum likely share much to their chagrin.

IMO a perfect reason to stand together rather than fragment over.

As to anyone who would feel compelled to fake being on the spectrum, that's just FUBAR in itself. Nuff said.

 

[NeoPhile]

So what? "Hard" does not equal "impossible". Do your research, like I did.

Sometimes, it's so hard that it takes a trained medical professional to do it. If we allow self-diagnosis, then we've said that just anyone can diagnose any neurological disorder. That's too slippery of a slope to allow. Look at these teachers who are diagnosing kids and putting them into special education without a formal diagnosis. They throw around terms like "Mentally retarded", which isn't even a psychiatric term. There are a lot of people in special education who shouldn't be there because of misdiagnosis by teachers. Racial minorities and boys are especially susceptible to being put into special education.

Comparing psychiatry with plumbing. Well, no, although there may exist in your mind a superficial resemblance, they actually are not quite the same thing. The approach that I used was to impartially examine the psychological and physical characteristics and attributes that I actually have (ex. sensitivity to sound, inability to tolerate most people - I'm generalising here), examine the various psychological conditions that are now recognised to exist in the country within which I live, examine my personal history, up to and including (for example) the manner in which I was treated by others, my obvious and clear inability to understand nuance, body language... look, I guess you will just have to take my word for it when I say that I have Asperger's Syndrome. God knows I wish I did NOT have it, because I HATE having it!

"Autism" in itself is a psychiatric term coined by psychiatrist Leo Kanner. It was first described by psychiatrists. It's a medical condition recognized by the APA. Psychiatrists have a right to diagnose and describe autism. They coined the very word and first described it. There are advantages to having a diagnosis. You can receive certain care and help at school with a diagnosis. There are other programs that can help you that you can't get without a diagnosis.

I was, and am not, "hung up" on a label. Do you think that the apparent increase in numbers for those who have these conditions is due to it being "trendy"?

No, and I never claimed it was. It is being diagnosed more because psychiatrists are learning more about it. We're getting better at identifying it. People who would have just been thought of as weird or quirky forty years ago are now being diagnosed as autistic spectrum because we understand why they're like that.

So you know N.T.'s who are deluded and deceptive. So what? I'm not N.T. I'm not a "supremacist" either, just someone who recognises that the way that N.T.'s do things does not work for me. I cannot live in N.T. society, because it is all about greed, duplicity, superficiality, and being competitive. I can't live that way, it's impossible for me.

I know neurotypicals who are careful and logical as well. That was my point.

???????????????????

I said "You and Trump" because you were sounding very arrogant, just like him.

 

[Full Steam]

Sometimes, it's so hard that it takes a trained medical professional to do it. If we allow self-diagnosis, then we've said that just anyone can diagnose any neurological disorder. That's too slippery of a slope to allow. Look at these teachers who are diagnosing kids and putting them into special education without a formal diagnosis. They throw around terms like "Mentally retarded", which isn't even a psychiatric term. There are a lot of people in special education who shouldn't be there because of misdiagnosis by teachers. Racial minorities and boys are especially susceptible to being put into special education.


"Autism" in itself is a psychiatric term coined by psychiatrist Leo Kanner. It was first described by psychiatrists. It's a medical condition recognized by the APA. Psychiatrists have a right to diagnose and describe autism. They coined the very word and first described it. There are advantages to having a diagnosis. You can receive certain care and help at school with a diagnosis. There are other programs that can help you that you can't get without a diagnosis.


No, and I never claimed it was. It is being diagnosed more because psychiatrists are learning more about it. We're getting better at identifying it. People who would have just been thought of as weird or quirky forty years ago are now being diagnosed as autistic spectrum because we understand why they're like that.


I know neurotypicals who are careful and logical as well. That was my point.


I said "You and Trump" because you were sounding very arrogant, just like him.

"we" already allow self diagnosis. The only issue here is whether the "elite", professionally diagnosed autistics accept or or deny the validity of the self diagnosed.

 

[nowwhat]

This forum is full of stories of individuals received conflicting diagnoses from "qualified professionals" before obtaining a positive AS diagnosis. And some of you insist we trust this profession. No one knows me and my life experiences better than I do. And AS fits like a glove. I for one will not be seeking any diagnosed status from a society that does not have my best interests at heart.

 

[Manuheleku]

Just shows the differences between Aspies. True to form I've always had an innate distrust of authority. I've met other Aspies who take the word of authority figures as gospel. I don't expect us to reach a consensus here, nor would it be Aspie-like. Very interesting debate.

 

[Bellatrix]

Please tone down the aggressive tone of the posts in here or the thread will be locked.

What aggressive tone? I don't see it. No one has insulted anyone (yet), have they?

 

[NeoPhile]

What aggressive tone? I don't see it. No one has insulted anyone (yet), have they?

I think he means the supremacist tone that some of your posts have followed. You have talked like an aspie supremacist in some of your posts, talking about how NT's are supposedly inferior or something.

 

[Bellatrix]

There are countries in the world that discriminate against people on the spectrum, where it's better not to be diagnosed. My own province classes autism as a mental illness.

A good point. A very good point in fact, because it indeed is the case that in most parts of the world the discrimination is often subtle, covert, very difficult to prove, but nevertheless there. Very few people will come straight out and say something like, "I hate Aspies", but try telling most people that you have Asperger's Syndrome, and even someone like me who has trouble identifying facial expressions and body language will see the sudden transformation that takes place. The changed attitude, the condescending language, the insults, the snide remarks, the way they always manage to find an excuse to avoid you. Admittedly, not everyone is like this of course (I DID say "most people"), but I would certainly not recommend mentioning something like this when you go for a job interview, or at work if you are lucky enough to have a job (or at school, or at the pub, or when moving into a new neighbourhood, or applying for a loan, or...).

 

[Full Steam]

Just shows the differences between Aspies. True to form I've always had an innate distrust of authority. I've met other Aspies who take the word of authority figures as gospel. I don't expect us to reach a consensus here, nor would it be Aspie-like. Very interesting debate.

That's interesting.

I have a distrust of authority, and I see reasons to distrust it daily.

The most useless, insane and stupid thing in the known universe is a committee, council, or government of humans.

A single smart human is vastly more useful and clever, but as the numbers grown and vested interests clash we seem to become collectively more stupid.

"We are ruled by the least amongst us"

I assumed most Aspies would probably distrust authority too.

 

[Mia]

If we allow self-diagnosis, then we've said that just anyone can diagnose any neurological disorder. That's too slippery of a slope to allow.

Shifting the burden of proof will make little difference, as is your proof of assertion that only trained professionals can diagnose HFA.

So after this, therefore because of this, if autistics self diagnose, then any neurological disorder can be diagnosed by people who manifest it does not follow, your statement is therefore illogical. We refer to autism, not other neurological difficulties. Understanding autism should not be fallaciously interpreted as understanding all brain disorders. This is also a definist fallacy that you've slid down on the thin edge of the wedge.

You have reached a faulty generalization from a weak premise. That is that only specialists in the ASD field can decide who has autism.

"Autism" in itself is a psychiatric term coined by psychiatrist Leo Kanner. It was first described by psychiatrists. It's a medical condition recognized by the APA. Psychiatrists have a right to diagnose and describe autism. They coined the very word and first described it. There are advantages to having a diagnosis. You can receive certain care and help at school with a diagnosis. There are other programs that can help you that you can't get without a diagnosis.

I'm familiar with the work of Leo Kanner. Psychiatrists have no more 'right' to diagnose autism than any other trained doctor in the psychology field, or for that matter in the medical field. And, as you'll discover here, there are many horror stories of interaction with 'trained' professionals. Which does not bode well for the field of psychology.

There are no provisions in my country, and only a few of us are attending school. There are no programs or help for adults with mild autism in my province or country. Therefore there is no point in being officially diagnosed. In fact, in many countries in the world it would be dangerous to do so.