Quantum Question

[The Pandector]

It seems that most people on the spectrum would do much better in life if only the world would make minor accommodations to their divergent nature. Unfortunately, so much media attention has been focused on the sensitivity demands of so many groups, that adult autism is not likely to break through the din. I’m not holding my breath for any spontaneous social reform on our behalf.

A dilemma. I find myself withholding judgement on the propriety and morality issues involved in the majority of people enforcing a set of accepted social norms on the minority who simply don’t share the conviction or the instinct. Both mind and viscera tell me this is wrong. So why my qualms?

Because, it is the acceptance and propagation of those norms that operates as the indispensable lube that keeps their world spinning. I can understand their stress over my apparent indifference to their protocols, so I can’t simply abandon the concept of enforcing ‘rules of the road.’

I have a lifelong hangup of needing to work out the morality questions before starting in on policy issues. Help?

 

[unperson]

I have a lifelong hangup of needing to work out the morality questions before starting in on policy issues. Help?

Had something similar, it usually involves deciding whether there is a God or not.

 

[Fino]

Can you give an example of what you're talking about?

 

[Skittlebisquit]

It seems that most people on the spectrum would do much better in life if only the world would make minor accommodations to their divergent nature. Unfortunately, so much media attention has been focused on the sensitivity demands of so many groups, that adult autism is not likely to break through the din. I’m not holding my breath for any spontaneous social reform on our behalf.

A dilemma. I find myself withholding judgement on the propriety and morality issues involved in the majority of people enforcing a set of accepted social norms on the minority who simply don’t share the conviction or the instinct. Both mind and viscera tell me this is wrong. So why my qualms?

Because, it is the acceptance and propagation of those norms that operates as the indispensable lube that keeps their world spinning. I can understand their stress over my apparent indifference to their protocols, so I can’t simply abandon the concept of enforcing ‘rules of the road.’

I have a lifelong hangup of needing to work out the morality questions before starting in on policy issues. Help?

...this one time, at this one place, this dude says to me; He says:
Dang dude but i dont know what,
Seriously, I mean really...
It sounds like either your fishing in the wrong stream, or else maybe using the wrong bait...

 

[Au Naturel]

There is a conflict between what we'd like and what we'll get. Unless you have money on your side, power in the NT world largely comes through social connection. That's a problem. And I don't have the genius of Sheldon Cooper to compensate.

I am of the opinion that it is unreasonable to demand that the other 98% of society adjust their social instincts for the remaining 2%. Even if it were reasonable, it is incredibly unlikely to happen.

And there we are stuck. Not being visibly different or sounding different, just acting differently sometimes. Not an easily identifiable group, we're only recognized because a few psychologists noticed a group of people who didn't quite fit in and decided to give us a name. A completely invisible disability that most people don't accept as such. They will say, "You're not disabled. You're just annoying or fragile or clumsy or socially awkward. Why can't you just (fill in the blank)?"

Expect change to be slow. In the meantime, it is up to us to try to adapt to the world around us as best we can as a simple matter of survival.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

It seems that most people on the spectrum would do much better in life if only the world would make minor accommodations to their divergent nature. Unfortunately, so much media attention has been focused on the sensitivity demands of so many groups, that adult autism is not likely to break through the din. I’m not holding my breath for any spontaneous social reform on our behalf.

A dilemma. I find myself withholding judgement on the propriety and morality issues involved in the majority of people enforcing a set of accepted social norms on the minority who simply don’t share the conviction or the instinct. Both mind and viscera tell me this is wrong. So why my qualms?

Because, it is the acceptance and propagation of those norms that operates as the indispensable lube that keeps their world spinning. I can understand their stress over my apparent indifference to their protocols, so I can’t simply abandon the concept of enforcing ‘rules of the road.’

I have a lifelong hangup of needing to work out the morality questions before starting in on policy issues. Help?

Yet,...and I have to keep pointing this out to people here,...at NO point in human history has anyone at any time ever made a meaningful contribution to science, to the arts, towards humanity by doing things that are the "same" as everyone else. It is usually someone with a neurodivergent mind and an intense interest and focus to accomplish some sort of goal,...and this often means someone on "the spectrum". "Those that are the best, do it different than the rest." My quote.

As Dr. Tony Attwood has said, "My concern for Aspies is the attitude of neurotypicals towards people who are different than themselves." For as much as psychologists like to think that autistics tend to be focused upon routines and sameness,...I actually find that neurotypicals are the ones stuck in the same mindset, but on a much grander scale,...they just call them "norms", "guidelines", "policy and procedure", and "laws". It's the neurotypical who has a difficult time with "something different",...and we all can make a long, long list,...from politics, religion, financial matters, new technology, etc. Most are sheepish followers, being very comfortable being part of a "collective" or "group". Whereas, many of us autistics,...once we settle into accepting ourselves, find peace and contentment NOT being part of a group.

 

[The Pandector]

It sounds like either your fishing in the wrong stream, or else maybe using the wrong bait...

I agree, SB! Exactly the point of my first paragraph, and why it belonged up front.

 

[The Pandector]

Can you give an example of what you're talking about?

Kinda hoping those would be supplied. To me, it seems that the key is what we think qualifies as 'enforcing' the norms.

It's not unusual for me to see other people exchange glances in silent agreement of my weirdness. Fool that I am, this is often painful for me; I am cast to the outside and negatively judged. Have they enforced their norm upon me? (Certainly feels like it.)

I was recently forcibly ejected from my son's house, where I had lived since before my wife's passing. My sin? That I don't fit into their weird version of life. They knew me, but thought that with enough work they could change my ways, making me compatible. That's loving, I guess. Oh! the thousand ways that they patiently and lovingly informed me of how to modify myself in order to fit in. But it was relentless and broke me down beyond my ability to relate.

Workplace? How many times, when it was optional, was my presence not requested because of my unorthodox way of viewing things? (Much easier to do a halfassed job and be done with it, than to consider the impact of our decisions on the wider operation.) What impact did that enforcement have on my career, on what I was trying to accomplish?

I'm guessing that our community here could do a much better job than I of listing the ways that we pay the full price but get the Real Deal meal.

 

[MyLifeAsAnAspie]

Sorry to hear about you being "ejected" from your son's house. But I find it hard to understand what went on there without specific examples.

As Dr. Tony Attwood has said, "My concern for Aspies is the attitude of neurotypicals towards people who are different than themselves." For as much as psychologists like to think that autistics tend to be focused upon routines and sameness,...I actually find that neurotypicals are the ones stuck in the same mindset, but on a much grander scale,...they just call them "norms", "guidelines", "policy and procedure", and "laws". It's the neurotypical who has a difficult time with "something different",...and we all can make a long, long list,...from politics, religion, financial matters, new technology, etc. Most are sheepish followers, being very comfortable being part of a "collective" or "group". Whereas, many of us autistics,...once we settle into accepting ourselves, find peace and contentment NOT being part of a group.

I have noticed this paradox, that our detractors are often the people with the narrows views of what behaviors are acceptable.

 

[Au Naturel]

If one wants to violate norms, there are ways to do it. I suggest the best time to do so is in one's own personal zone where nobody else can complain. I didn't get to work naked, though on hot summer days when the AC fails I really wished I could.

Norms, guidelines, policies, protocols, procedures, and laws all exist for a reason. Without them, civilization does not exist. People on the spectrum often don't get this. And because many of the most important rules are unwritten, folks on the spectrum either blithely dismiss them or may not even be aware of them. Before I defy a convention (or at least one that I'm aware of) I do a careful analysis of risk to benefit. I never ignore a rule just because it seems irrational. I'll leave that to the NTs who are better at such things.

Aspies are good at antagonizing people when they consider themselves as being rational and right. Do that and you've lost the case.