Public Announcement about what autism is and is not

[the_tortoise]

I am not saying there is anything inherently wrong if someone is LGBTQ but,

Nothing in this thread is meant as anti-lqbtq, or anti-other conditions,

The above two statements directly and imo very obviously contradict the below two statements

Autism does not equal LGBTQ, or other identities, or any other such garbage.

(You would have been fine had you not characterized LGBTQ as "garbage")

which ends up in us autistic people being made to look like a laughing stock as well as as just generally misrepresenting us.

Aaaand if there is nothing wrong with the other identities you disparage and distance yourself from, then how exactly do you see autistic people being made a "laughing stock" because of associations being made with them?

I can see the misrepresentation part, should anyone actually conflate autism with non-heterosexuality or gender differences, but I have never ever -- not one single time, not from the most ignorant, illogical and confused of people -- seen that happen.

Your double-speak is your undoing.

Sincerely, a normal autistic person.

This is hilarious and shows a little bit what your real problem probably is.

You aren't normal by virtue of being autistic. This is true for anyone with unhide-able attributes that fall well outside statistical norms and also for whatever reasons (however illogical those reasons may be) become such an issue for wider society and/or for the outliers themselves who have such attributes that the outliers actually get a label attached to their statistically abnormal attributes. Then you are stigmatized. Wanting to shed the stigma, you adopt the same hateful attitudes and views of everyone who has ever stigmatized you, you start comparing types of abnormality and trying to (socially, since statistically is impossible) normalize your own while arguing the stigma against the groups you don't belong to is justified.

It is sad, pathetic, illogical and deeply hateful behaviour. And personally, I would much rather be called "woke" and "social justice warrior" than "double-speaking, self-deluded promoter of bigotry" (if insults are going to be hurled here, and seen as acceptable, then both sides should be given equal permissions; I'm not going to pretend you and others aren't flirting with or outright engaging in hateful comments or insults just because others might be buying into the double-speak or simply trying to avoid confrontation - I'm "calling a spade a spade" and if it upsets you I really don't care - you show no concern for upsetting people you disparage. If it makes people judge or dislike me, alienate me as a supposedly woke idiot, well, maybe I don't care and take the intended insult as a compliment - i don't have to feel bad about perspectives I hold that you devalue or disparage or misrepresent just because you devalue/disparage and misrepresent them...and I don't, and never will.)

 

[Fredan]

The above two statements directly and imo very obviously contradict the below two statements

If there is nothing wrong with the other identities you disparage and distance yourself from, then how exactly do you see autistic people being made a "laughing stock" because of associations being made with them?

I can see the misrepresentation part, should anyone actually conflate autism with non-heterosexuality or gender differences, but I have never ever -- not one single time, not from the most ignorant, illogical and confused of people -- seen that happen.

Your double-speak is your undoing.

This is hilarious and shows a little bit what your real problem probably is.

You aren't normal by virtue of being autistic. This is true for anyone with unhide-able attributes that fall well outside statistical norms and also for whatever reasons (however illogical those reasons may be) become such an issue for wider society and/or for the outliers themselves who have such attributes that the outliers actually get a label attached to their statistically abnormal attributes. Then you are stigmatized. Wanting to shed the stigma, you adopt the same hateful attitudes and views of everyone who has ever stigmatized you, you start comparing types of abnormality and trying to (socially, since statistically is impossible) normalize your own while arguing the stigma against the groups you don't belong to is justified.

It is sad, pathetic, illogical and deeply hateful behaviour. And personally, I would much rather be called "woke" and "social justice warrior" than "double-speaking, self-deluded promoter of bigotry" (if insults are going to be hurled here, and seen as acceptable, then both sides should be given equal permissions; I'm not going to pretend you and others aren't flirting with or outright engaging in hateful comments or insults just because others might be).

Some very simple rebuttals to your statements.

Autistic people can be seen as a laughing stock because general woke, SJW, easily offended triggered types are a laughing stock and that is another half of the problem, not that there is anything wrong itself with being gay or bi, or whatever else alone - it is what it is commonly associated with, that is the issue.

Also, when did I ever say I was normal by virtue of being autistic? I simply said I was a normal person, who happens to be autistic. Just because some people are "not normal" doesn't mean they are bad, it just means they are statistical minorities and not the trend or the rule.

But keep on having a melt down, we are here to watch, and laugh.

The overarching point, is that Autism is one thing, and one thing alone. It has no bearing on other parts of an individuals experience, whether that is religion, politics, other conditions, etc, etc, we are all individuals and we all differ.

That's all I ever meant to say.

P.S: If you think insults are going to hurt my feelings, you are in for something entirely else, remember it's not people like I that cry like babies because "they hurt my fee fees", especially when things are false to begin with. Hey, I use the word retard, and retarded, even as an autistic, not towards disabled people, but towards normal people without any disability that say/do extremely stupid things, as is the modern day meaning and use of the word. No one is retarded enough to call a disabled person a retard.


Anyone who agrees with what I am saying, can join my discord community.
PM me for a link, if you want.

 

[717]

Some very simple rebuttals to your statements.

Autistic people can be seen as a laughing stock because general woke, SJW, easily offended triggered types are a laughing stock and that is another half of the problem, not that there is anything wrong itself with being gay or bi, or whatever else alone - it is what it is commonly associated with, that is the issue.

Also, when did I ever say I was normal by virtue of being autistic? I simply said I was a normal person, who happens to be autistic. Just because some people are "not normal" doesn't mean they are bad, it just means they are statistical minorities and not the trend or the rule.

But keep on having a melt down, we are here to watch, and laugh.

The overarching point, is that Autism is one thing, and one thing alone. It has no bearing on other parts of an individuals experience, whether that is religion, politics, other conditions, etc, etc, we are all individuals and we all differ.

That's all I ever meant to say.

P.S: If you think insults are going to hurt my feelings, you are in for something entirely else, remember it's not people like I that cry like babies because "they hurt my fee fees", especially when things are false to begin with. Hey, I use the word retard, and retarded, even as an autistic, not towards disabled people, but towards normal people without any disability that say/do extremely stupid things, as is the modern day meaning and use of the word. No one is retarded enough to call a disabled person a retard.


Anyone who agrees with what I am saying, can join my discord community, "Autistic & Politically Incorrect"

Join the Autistic & Politically Incorrect Discord Server!

That is amazing... and you plug your own community too...

This is the thing, your not just politically incorrect... you are straight up wrong.

Probably the most funny part of this is that studies have found that autistic people have larger numbers of LGBT than NT people...

Anyway Tortoise is right, the language you use show what you really think, and it is really hypocrisy that you are calling for tolerance and acceptance of your ideas when you are being a bigot... and even more when nobody here have been discriminating against the US political right... at least half the people in this place are not in the US and they don't care... so you made yourself a victim in your mind, when nobody was discriminating you, then you demand acceptance of your political ideas while attacking other people... what a mess...

 

[717]

what you make up about the things MAGA is doing about people with autism? dont you feel discriminated by them???

Trump and Kennedy Spouting Dangerous Autism Misinformation - Autistic Self Advocacy Network

 

[the_tortoise]

But keep on having a melt down, we are here to watch, and laugh.

If you're actually laughing, I doubt your laughter is what you hope people will think it is -- I bet it is nervous, full of fear and anger, put on and forced. An act of puffery - trying to make yourself look big and powerful and me small and pathetic.

I suspect I got under your skin by calling out what you tried to hide, perhaps even from yourself, and now it's you that's freaking out.

I'm all good on my side of the screen.

Feel free to look down upon and insult me as much as you want. The only reaction you're going to get from me is pity, disapproval, a certain amount of logically-sound disagreement , and maybe a litte bit of wry amusement. Or you'll get nothing, because there is clearly no point - you have closed your mind, and will make whatever bizarre assumptions about me and anyone else who disagrees with you that you want to make. I have no need to control what you think, I just wanted to point out your double-speak and promotion of hatred - the way you seek to sacrifice other marginilized people to save yourself from similar stigma; to let you know not everyone is fooled, and point it out to anyone who might not see it clearly that you are trying to be hateful without seeming hateful.

Your response to me says a lot about you, and nothing about me. You misconstrue my arguments, and mock people saying they have hurt feelings (which I didn't btw, but I will admit without shame or the need to mock you in ridiculous and immature ways, that the hate you promote does offend me).... while, ironically, everything you wrote to me screams "emotional dysregulation" and "I am hurt by what you said". Just because you are too insecure to admit you have feelings and may feel hurt by what I said about you and your views doesn't mean that it's not glaringly obvious in the way you're reacting.

You are clearly threatened by me and/or what I said, and trying to project your feelings onto me -- you'd know it if I was even close to having a meltdown and trying to write at the same time because it would be a half-statement of barely understandable typos with an insane amount of missing words (me responding in actual meltdown doesn't happen -- my meltdowns are really bad; If I'm having a meltdown, language is offline).

I'm not playing whatever game you hope to
get me to play; I only ever responded to you being hateful to others, because it disturbed me the support your hateful sentiments were getting, so I called your behaviour what it is and stated my objection to and disagreement with your views and your behaviour....I have not once mocked you in this post where I am responding to one in which you clearly mock me as well as try to misrepresent my arguments -- partly by co-opting at least one of them as your own and then responding to me as if I had not just said the exact same thing to you, this one below (you never made this point in your OP, but I did in my response to your OP):

Just because some people are "not normal" doesn't mean they are bad, it just means they are statistical minorities and not the trend or the rule.

Keep trying to fool me and make me feel bad if you wish to metaphorically beat your head against a wall; Won't work -- you have no power over me, and I have faced far more skilled double-speaking bullies than you so it's unlikely anything you say can hurt me anymore than your original sentiments did - and that hurt was not at all of the nature nor degree that you seem to think it was.

 

[Hypnalis]

t... and even more when nobody here have been discriminating against the US political right

This isn't correct, though the AF implementation is inverted.

Discussion of politics is discouraged and explicitly limited in AF. Which is fine.
But when you split-test it (which I've done) you find imbalances.

The reasoning isn't "wrong", but it's extremely difficult to both allow open discussions and to censor aspects of them which are "hot topics" in society as a whole.

Among people with ASD there's a significantly higher proportion of "LGBs" than among NTs. Something similar might well be true with the "+" splice, but the data is very unclear because it's been confounded by social contagion.
So it make sense to protect that group here. But in a specialist forum like this one it takes you into a politically complicated space. Imperfect management of discussions like this one is inevitable.

So @Fredan isn't 100% correct, but they're not wrong.

Which takes us back to this:

the language you use show what you really think, and it is really hypocrisy that you are calling for tolerance and acceptance of your ideas when you are being a bigot

Amusingly this is straight out of the Maoist handbook: accuse your opponent of your own behavior.
In this case attempting to suppress a discussion that doesn't suit you (or your "side") via intolerance, exclusion, and escalation/polarization.

It's political: you may be copying the technique, but there are "boot camps" and other forms of training for this in the US.

@Fredan
An honest suggestion: de-escalate a little.
The techniques you're facing were deliberately designed to induce people to over-commit.
(Some of the terminology in current suggests Maoist China's "Cultural Revolution". A place and time where they were very enthusiastic about finding and punishing people with dissenting views).

An example (from a different part of the Culture Wars) is for someone to accuse a calm and rational opponent of being angry and/or defensive, but do it in a way that's rude enough to induce annoyance, and sufficiently critical to require defense against the false accusations.

Don't let someone using such tricks control the initiative.

 

[the_tortoise]

An example (from a different part of the Culture Wars) is for someone to accuse a calm and rational opponent of being angry and/or defensive, but do it in a way that's rude enough to induce annoyance, and sufficiently critical to require defense against the false accusations.

Which is exactly what was done to me personally after I responded, as well as to anyone who disagreed with Fredan in his original post, in his pre-emptive defense...so...seems like you might be blind to your own bias here?

 

[Hypnalis]

Which is exactly what was done to me so...seems like you might be blind to your own bias here?

I haven't read all the posts, but the expectation for a discussion like this is that all sides (there are more than two) will include people who use such techniques.

Those tricks are effective, and the simpler versions have spread widely via social media. So it's a "Pandora's Box / toothpaste back in the tube" situation. All you can do is learn to deal with them.

My advice is the same for everyone, regardless of their position in any ongoing discussion/argument:
* De-escalate early. This acts to keep the discussion more polite and rational than would otherwise be the case.
* Don't use such tricks in polite discussions
* Don't engage in "Irish Stand Down": Bare-knuckle boxing - Wikipedia

But hardly anyone follows that advice /lol


Bonus: for the other side of the same thing: If you're forced to "pig-wrestle", be the pig. /lol.
(I don't do this in AF, which is a generally polite place, but the principle is valid)

Quote Origin: Never Wrestle with a Pig. You Both Get Dirty and the Pig Likes It – Quote Investigator®

 

[UFO]

One bartender said it pretty well: "It’s odd how some completely peaceful people still end up with others picking fights with them."

...

I saw two inflammable problems here, which made me at first to avoid this conversation because I really, really hate getting involved with trolling behavior (both intentional and unintentional) and flame wars...

First problem was that mentioning a words "woke" and "social justice warrior" is by my experience mostly associated with the far-right (I mean, not just by me, but also every other people in the internet). And the far-right is associated with a bunch of ideals that the far-left loathe. In that situation, whatever you are trying to say, after those tag-words it will be interpreted as a representation of "far-right ideology". Backlash expected.

Second problem is attitudes signaled by choice of words and phrases:

Sincerely, a normal autistic person.

I simply said I was a normal person, who happens to be autistic. Just because some people are "not normal" doesn't mean they are bad

Here you are practically framing autism as a normal person's characteristic, but saying that sexual deviance is not. That sounds divisive, if not outright discriminatory. You are calling people and their identities abnormal and garbage. It is hard to not think that this is the way you think. It would be less insulting towards minorities, if you switch "normal" with "straight", for example.

For the record: You did try to tell that you don't discriminate. And I can believe that you think so. But you still used at least unintentionally contradicting phrases that signal otherwise.

Btw. I agree with your point of not mixing unrelated concepts together. Never seen anyone equal LGBTQ with autism thought, more common is to think autistic people as violent criminally insane people.