Professional Autism Descriptions Vs Practical Examples ?

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

When I read professional descriptions, I often start doubting that I have ASD yet when seeing practical applications of what makes someone be seen as autistic, it is common for me to relate strongly. A good example is how descriptions will refer to deficits such as deficits in non verbal communication. To me, that sounds like an absence of facial expressions, hand gestures, and such like. When people discuss thinking someone is autistic though, they point out unusual expressions or gestures as evidence of autism (unusual not absent). Another point that confuses me is about reduced sharing of interests, yet in practical examples rambling on about something is an indicator of autism which would seem to be the inverse of reduced sharing interests. It gets a bit confusing.

 

[Masked Man]

When I read professional descriptions, I often start doubting that I have ASD yet when seeing practical applications of what makes someone be seen as autistic, it is common for me to relate strongly. A good example is how descriptions will refer to deficits such as deficits in non verbal communication. To me, that sounds like an absence of facial expressions, hand gestures, and such like. When people discuss thinking someone is autistic though, they point out unusual expressions or gestures as evidence of autism (unusual not absent). Another point that confuses me is about reduced sharing of interests, yet in practical examples rambling on about something is an indicator of autism which would seem to be the inverse of reduced sharing interests. It gets a bit confusing.

I can only make a comment on this part - when I think of "reduced sharing of interests" the image that comes to mind is a guy monologuing about what he is interested in and not at all noticing that the people he is talking at are not the least bit interested. AND when it comes time for someone else to share their interest, he criticizes them for pronouncing a word incorrectly and ignores the rest of what they say.

In other words - no give and take. It's only him wanting someone he can speak at.

 

[RemyZee]

I can only make a comment on this part - when I think of "reduced sharing of interests" the image that comes to mind is a guy monologuing about what he is interested in and not at all noticing that the people he is talking at are not the least bit interested. AND when it comes time for someone else to share their interest, he criticizes them for pronouncing a word incorrectly and ignores the rest of what they say.

In other words - no give and take. It's only him wanting someone he can speak at.

Wouldn't this be more an OVER sharing of interests? Basically demonstrating what the OP says--that while the criteria officially says a lack of sharing of interests, the actual thing autistic people do is over sharing.

 

[vergil96]

When I talked about it to my therapist and doctor, the descriptions were very unclear. First of all, the deficits in communucation aren't really deficits, but signs of autism. Such as autistic way to make eye contact. One autistic person will make less eye contact than an neurotypical person, another will stare and overdo it. We do it just not quite like people who are not autistic. Same about body language. If iyou like to be sideways to the person you're talking to, it's one of those signs too. It's the recipricity criterion at the same time. Another example of reciprocity is that autistic people use their face when interacting with someone to a lesser degree, apprantly neurotypical people automatically instantaneously monkey the facial expression of whatever they're talking to and there is nothing conscious about it. It's not a bad thing to have an autistic way of using your facial expression, but the criterion makes it sound like it's bad. People will think you're autistic and calm, that's all that results from it.

"Fascination with part of objects" is really sensory issues and sensitivieties. If you find changes overwhelming, it's the routines criterion. The motor movements is stimming (repetitive). Restricted interests also aren't as abnormal as they seem in the criterion. If you know everything about certain topics, because you consistently hyperhixate on it and can read about it and think aboit it for hours and hours - that's it.

An example of not developing relationship appropriate to developmental level is not making friends at school or not having a partner and a difficulty finding one.

Reduced sharing of interests could be when you consider yourself an introvert and don't ask others for an opinion, don't feel the need or don't find it natural to go and talk about whatever you're interested in.

 

[Dagan]

Info dumping usually happens only when comfortable around certain people, still (for me). I certainly have the ability to ramble on and on, but it almost always, only happens when it's the conversations brought up by others who I'm okay being around in the first place.

I can absolutely relate to this coming across perceivably odd from the interviewer's side of things, though. They are going to always be someone who we don't know, and so the comfort level isn't there - the level of knowing how much is too much to share, etc. We don't know them, so we can't read them, and furthermore, we will start to get anxious possibly at the first thoughts that come creeping in on us such as, "oh, what does that face mean?...crap, am I masking too much?...did I just overshare, or did that come across as enthused?"

In many ways, I think job interviews come down to what kind of person the interviewer is. Are they even a people person? Are they a humorless dullard? Are they ND themselves and don't even know it? Are they cool and bubbly?

 

[Judge]

I'd think it's a "good rule of thumb" not to confuse a formal description of a medical condition which may or may not reflect a professional, positive diagnosis. While they are not mutually exclusive, a description alone is not sufficient to be any kind of meaningful substitute that a proper diagnosis requires.

In your individual case, it may be optimal for you to get this out of the way once and for all. To seek a proper diagnosis IMO from an MD and psychiatrist or neurologist. Especially if you feel whatever your condition may be, that it is something you cannot efficiently mask in the NT world.

While expensive and can have potential repercussions in our society, in your case a formal diagnosis in the long run may prove as beneficial as being gainfully employed as well as peace-of-mind.

In essence that "practical example" you seek is ultimately a formal diagnosis itself.

You are a "deep-thinking person". And I don't see your scientific need-to-know going away- ever. With a need to select a linear process to move ahead in a straight line, rather than go in circles where you can only guess as to what your neurological status truly is.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

When I read professional descriptions, I often start doubting that I have ASD yet when seeing practical applications of what makes someone be seen as autistic, it is common for me to relate strongly. A good example is how descriptions will refer to deficits such as deficits in non verbal communication. To me, that sounds like an absence of facial expressions, hand gestures, and such like. When people discuss thinking someone is autistic though, they point out unusual expressions or gestures as evidence of autism (unusual not absent). Another point that confuses me is about reduced sharing of interests, yet in practical examples rambling on about something is an indicator of autism which would seem to be the inverse of reduced sharing interests. It gets a bit confusing.

The DSM appears to have not only a male bias, but also a pediatric bias. Even IF you behaved like this as a child, chances are, as an adult, you may have found ways to mask to some extent and would have discovered intellectual workarounds. Furthermore, females, statistically, need much more genetic loading in order to present with symptoms, as compared to their male peers.

Food for thought.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

The DSM appears to have not only a male bias, but also a pediatric bias. Even IF you behaved like this as a child, chances are, as an adult, you may have found ways to mask to some extent and would have discovered intellectual workarounds. Furthermore, females, statistically, need much more genetic loading in order to present with symptoms, as compared to their male peers.

Food for thought.

As a child, I was obsessed with science and pretend play. I would come up with my own experiments as well as learning science facts from school, science documentaries, reference materials, ect. I also loved to read certain fiction stories and to watch certain shows and would pretend to be the characters and would come up with my own story lines. I also loved airplanes and would pretend that things like my swing and my bike were airplanes. I would try to get other children to play these pretend games with me when I would get to be around other kids. I usually asked what their favorite subject was upon introduction. I liked to share scientific facts with others and would ask adults questions if I thought there was something they would know about that I found interesting. I was very hyper but did excellent in school. I could recite lengthy texts from memory. I enjoyed getting outside and observing things like birds and insects and wanted to tell someone if I spotted a species that I had not seen before or observed an interesting behavior. I liked doing things like dancing in the rain. I would wave at total strangers and excitedly declare to my parents that I had found a friend if they waved back. Other children mocked me, threatened to beat me and one time even tried to strangle me.

 

[Shamar]

When I read professional descriptions, I often start doubting that I have ASD yet when seeing practical applications of what makes someone be seen as autistic, it is common for me to relate strongly. A good example is how descriptions will refer to deficits such as deficits in non verbal communication. To me, that sounds like an absence of facial expressions, hand gestures, and such like. When people discuss thinking someone is autistic though, they point out unusual expressions or gestures as evidence of autism (unusual not absent). Another point that confuses me is about reduced sharing of interests, yet in practical examples rambling on about something is an indicator of autism which would seem to be the inverse of reduced sharing interests. It gets a bit confusing.

Bear in mind that the people who write these descriptions, in general (I'm sure there are exceptions, but I have yet to encounter any):
1. Are not autistic
2. Have no idea what it is like to be autistic
3. Have no idea what they are talking about
4 Could not recognize an adult with autism even displaying the entire diagnostic criteria

This is why we tend to be able to recognize each other. We know more about the practical and behavioral aspects of actually being autistic, while the so called "experts" don't have a clue. I would not worry about the differences between the professional descriptions and practical experiences. Just go by what you know, and ignore people who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Outdated]

The typical "professional" opinions are something I don't even bother to look at any more.

Imagine a book about what it's like to live as a woman - written by a man. No matter how sympathetic and understanding that man might try to be he'll never really understand because he'll never have the opportunity to live it and find out.

In some countries there's a lot more detailed information coming from autistic people themselves but most of the websites are edited by NTs to make more sense to NTs.

In the same way that sayings and phrases used in one language might not make any sense at all in another language, a lot of the ways our different minds work just doesn't translate very well to neurotypical people. They're unable to put themselves in the same position, they don't have the right neurological equipment.

 

[maleonolo]

I've found that people on this site seem less stereotypically autistic than many on mainstream media. For some reason people on those sites mostly talk about stimming/social skills and rarely anything else. I mean it happens here too but less often. Maybe it's because there are sub forums here

reduced sharing interests

It probably means making less small talk. Small talk involves sharing interests to a certain extent. If they're high masking they'll learn not to rant about niche topics, which combined with a tendency to not engage in small talk, means reduced sharing of interests

 

[vergil96]

I've found that people on this site seem less stereotypically autistic than many on mainstream media. For some reason people on those sites mostly talk about stimming/social skills and rarely anything else.

Hm? Why so? I think the opposite is the case xD That forums tend to attract more autistic people, and mainstream social media are for normies and it's hard to tell whether most self-proclaimed autistics are indeed autistic or have adhd, personality disorders, trauma, bipolar etc. For someone who didn't conduct their medical diagnosis, it's just not obvious, it doesn't stand out that they have traits that are clearly autistic and aren't present in other conditions. These people have hardships and need and deserve help and understanding, this is why they seek an explanation and accommodations. But are they autistic? Hard to tell. Stimming is present in many conditions. So are social skills deficits. I have just seen a video how adhd negatively impacts relationships.

 

[maleonolo]

Hm? Why so? I think the opposite is the case xD That forums tend to attract more autistic people, and mainstream social media are for normies and it's hard to tell whether most self-proclaimed autistics are indeed autistic or have adhd, personality disorders, trauma, bipolar etc. For someone who didn't conduct their medical diagnosis, it's just not obvious, it doesn't stand out that they have traits that are clearly autistic and aren't present in other conditions. These people have hardships and need and deserve help and understanding, this is why they seek an explanation and accommodations. But are they autistic? Hard to tell. Stimming is present in many conditions. So are social skills deficits. I have just seen a video how adhd negatively impacts relationships.

My wording might have been unclear, the way autistic people present themselves here is vastly different from how they do on mainstream websites, but that doesn't mean that they aren't autistic. It's a shame that normal forums are dying. The culture is different too... on forums you find humble but knowledgeable people. On mainstream websites though, it's the opposite

 

[vergil96]

My wording might have been unclear, the way autistic people present themselves here is vastly different from how they do on mainstream websites, but that doesn't mean that they aren't autistic.

Neither of us has said that tbh about both forums and mainstream social media. You can't really know what conditions or neurotype someone has just by looking at a few posts. But I meant that in mainstream social media there are lots of people who strike me as what I described above, but don't ring the autism bell for me personally, the less mainstream places have more people that to me seem to be stereotypically autistic, for example very nerdy, focused on details, persistent in their interests, loners, posessing a certain way they word things that comes across as autistic.

 

[maleonolo]

Neither of us has said that tbh about both forums and mainstream social media. You can't really know what conditions or neurotype someone has just by looking at a few posts. But I meant that in mainstream social media there are lots of people who strike me as what I described above, but don't ring the autism bell for me personally, the less mainstream places have more people that to me seem to be stereotypically autistic, for example very nerdy, focused on details, persistent in their interests, loners, posessing a certain way they word things that comes across as autistic.

Yeah that's true, I haven't used most mainstream media for a while, not sure what Instagram is like nowadays (maybe just models posing) but judging from how public perceive the others - Twitter, Facebook and Reddit is quite divisive. Reddit has some decent content but half the time I get the feeling that people are making up stories for likes or pretending to be experts. It's worse than Twitter because their sentences look more coherent and lend a false sense of credibility

When I talked about it to my therapist and doctor, the descriptions were very unclear. First of all, the deficits in communucation aren't really deficits, but signs of autism. Such as autistic way to make eye contact. One autistic person will make less eye contact than an neurotypical person, another will stare and overdo it. We do it just not quite like people who are not autistic. Same about body language. If iyou like to be sideways to the person you're talking to, it's one of those signs too. It's the recipricity criterion at the same time. Another example of reciprocity is that autistic people use their face when interacting with someone to a lesser degree, apprantly neurotypical people automatically instantaneously monkey the facial expression of whatever they're talking to and there is nothing conscious about it. It's not a bad thing to have an autistic way of using your facial expression, but the criterion makes it sound like it's bad. People will think you're autistic and calm, that's all that results from it.

What were your 'autistic traits' that led you to being officially diagnosed (if you were)?

 

[vergil96]

What were your 'autistic traits' that led you to being officially diagnosed (if you were)?

I didn't self-diagnose before my therapist pointed it out. I had no interest in it

Although the Asperger's label followed me around since early childhood.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Although the Asperger's label followed me around since early childhood.

Multiple family members would refer to me as having Asperger's starting sometime around my tweens. People in public will bring up having an autistic child or grandchild and give me this look that makes me feel like they are waiting for some sort of confession about being autistic myself. I received a diagnostic impression of ASD a few years ago and at the time was lead to believe that I was diagnosed, but after questioning the wording "diagnostic impression" quite some time later, I learned that it is not the same thing.

 

[vergil96]

I received a diagnostic impression of ASD a few years ago

I can't remember, was it that you were attempting to get ADHD diagnosed? Or was it your own initiative to diagnose for both ADHD and ASD?

Multiple family members would refer to me as having Asperger's starting sometime around my tweens. People in public will bring up having an autistic child or grandchild and give me this look that makes me feel like they are waiting for some sort of confession about being autistic myself.

My parents suspected I might have autism when I went to preschool and on my first day (I was 3) didn't know how to socialise and divided the number bananas by the number of children. Then it came back over and over, I didn't completely understand feelings and social things and I was very good at maths and liked tables, schedules, and the such. That was elementary school. In middle and high school I had no more social issues, but I was shy and still winning competitions in maths and I began to like maths in high school. I could do calculus and matrix multiplication in my head and nobody else could. Then at uni and now some people asked and still ask me out of the blue if I have Asperger's, it's weird. Or are like: "You have Asperger's!" - well, thank you for the information? They say it as if they were saying "There is a coffee stain on your shirt!". Odd. I suspect it's about the maths all along. And my ability to notice details, for example grinding everything through the terminal on my laptop. Or maybe it's something else - idk. Although in my opinion, people are scared of maths and lots of code, get curious and want an explanation beyond "It is what it is, it's just a skill". But I see similarities between myself and e.g. Sherlock from the TV show.

 

[the_tortoise]

When I read professional descriptions, I often start doubting that I have ASD yet when seeing practical applications of what makes someone be seen as autistic, it is common for me to relate strongly. A good example is how descriptions will refer to deficits such as deficits in non verbal communication. To me, that sounds like an absence of facial expressions, hand gestures, and such like. When people discuss thinking someone is autistic though, they point out unusual expressions or gestures as evidence of autism (unusual not absent). Another point that confuses me is about reduced sharing of interests, yet in practical examples rambling on about something is an indicator of autism which would seem to be the inverse of reduced sharing interests. It gets a bit confusing.

This sort of thing is why I have difficulty with official forms and instructions...and really all kinds of communication.

And why I irritate people with my immensely detailed communication (in a diplomatic moment of charity and non-contempt towards me my dad once said I am "extremely precise")...

My mind doesn't automatically cue up the most common subjective inference/ association when someone uses a broad/vague/nonspecific abstract word. I either think of all the meanings I can imagine or I cannot think of any meanings at all.

@Neonatal RRT posted about this once, talking about their experience as an educator, and how autistic people seem to be always (or at least often) uncertain how to interpret these things and see many possible meanings rather than instantly assuming whatever specific meaning is likely intended in a non-specific description or question.

Also re: reduced sharing of interests...lately I think that refers to a lot of things at once...in addition to what others have already said about how we communicate (or dont) about
those interests with others and how much reciprocity we are able to offer others, (people likely have already said these my attention is extra terrible today and sometimes I dont understand properly) I also think it means things like:

- How we approach interests...things like the single minded hyperfocus and tendency towards acquiring incredible depth and breadth of knowledge; Or the way an interest does not have its own little metaphorical corner in our lives where it stays contained but can be found in most or all areas of our life whether just in our minds or in some visible and obvious way....And how this approach is quite different from normal approaches -- ie not "shared" with the non-autistic majority

- How autistic interests are not as heavily influenced (or at all influenced) by our peer groups...we like what we like, have our fascinations that are less likely to have relationship to our desire to fit in or make friends or whatever other social motivation that often is the SOLE reasons a non-autistic person becomes interested in something or takes up a hobby or leisure activity (And how this lack of peer group(s) influence is quite different from normal -- ie not "shared" with the non-autistic majority....and because of this:_)

-How our interests are less likely to be common things, are often unique and potentially "strange" (And how this "type of interest" aspect is quite different from normal -- ie not "shared" with the non-autistic majority)

It makes sense to me how diagnostic criteria would be written in vague, abstract ways to cover many, many possible presentations....using one word to refer to many varied things.,,,

...in the same way it is often useful to compress data into a .zip file to store it, or efficiently transfer it from one place to another...

But I think most (not all) diagnostic-code writers, clinicians, and all other people who try to elaborate and give examples could do a WAY better job of it...

Usually when I look for elaborative slecifics (about anything, not just autism things) I just mostly find the same vague, abstract statements using synonyms in place of original terms.

I need details. Details are all that is real for
me, truly every abstract thing I can say or think about is not actually abstract in my mind -- it is an immense web of interconnected detailed thought. My brain does not do abstraction.

 

[RealisticRobin]

I can only make a comment on this part - when I think of "reduced sharing of interests" the image that comes to mind is a guy monologuing about what he is interested in and not at all noticing that the people he is talking at are not the least bit interested. AND when it comes time for someone else to share their interest, he criticizes them for pronouncing a word incorrectly and ignores the rest of what they say.

In other words - no give and take. It's only him wanting someone he can speak at.

This made me laugh as I do it all the time. I did not realise it was an autistic trait though.