Problems with arguments with neurotypicals

[Myrtonos]

So when I have a dispute with some who is (as far as I know) not on the spectrum, my past experiences and what some others on the spectrum (such as Temple Grandin) say about the way neurotypicals think often makes it hard for me to believe they could know better than me.

 

[Progster]

Can you give a specific example?

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

They tend to make arguments more personal, example I once joined a tractor forum, sub forum after market painting, fixing up old tractors. I am an absolute expert on industrial painting. Some respondents no only a bit of experience on working in a body shop insisted in challenging me on chemistry, physics, it got to the point I left the site. They tend to revert to personal insults.

 

[Unclewolverine]

It's common, I've had to leave a ford truck site and a rural mail carrier site for the same reasons.

I'm talking about how a minor disagreement about a technical issue for some reason will suddenly devolve into a personal attack on the posters character or personal beliefs.

 

[tree]

@Myrtonos

How does that differ, if it does, from your experiences of disagreeing with
people diagnosed as ASD? Don't you typically figure you know best/have the
answers, regardless of the neurology of the other person?

It seems like what you are saying is that you find it difficult to understand
or appreciate the thought processes of other people.

 

[Suzette]

They tend to make arguments more personal, example I once joined a tractor forum, sub forum after market painting, fixing up old tractors. I am an absolute expert on industrial painting. Some respondents no only a bit of experience on working in a body shop insisted in challenging me on chemistry, physics, it got to the point I left the site. They tend to revert to personal insults.

Well, there are a lot of insecure, immature and emotionally damaged people in the world, I am not sure it is fair to lay the blame on N.T.s.

I do find, however, that N.Ts can often have a perspective that I don't understand. That means I find them confusing not inherently, as a group, more argumentative or insulting.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

It's common, I've had to leave a ford truck site and a rural mail carrier site for the same reasons.

I'm talking about how a minor disagreement about a technical issue for some reason will suddenly devolve into a personal attack on the posters character or personal beliefs. The Rural carrier forum would always turn into how stupid any point of view I had was because I was not a card carrying Trump supporter.

years ago I worked at the Ontario Truck plant on the zInc phosphate system. I quess I will stay away from that Truck site.

 

[Aspychata]

Perhaps we use logic more then personal challenges of IQ or political beliefs as a healthy debate.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

THa

Perhaps we use logic more then personal challenges of IQ or political beliefs as a healthy debate.

Thats why I like reading Peter Woits BLog lots of very bright people and I suspect many Aspies.

 

[tree]

GENERAL REMINDER

This is a support forum.
All neurologies are welcome here.

This means, no preening about Aspies/ASD being somehow superior
to other people.

General Rules & Guidelines

 

[LadyS]

Short answer: Everyone, regardless of neurological differences, will always have a different perspective. Life's all about angles, best way is to learn about all of them.

Longer:
"We must not only learn to tolerate our differences. We must welcome them as the richness and diversity which can lead to true intelligence." - Albert Einstein
Einstein frequently acknowledged and referenced NT perspectives and incorporated them into his own knowledge.

 

[Myrtonos]

Sometimes when I point out something someone has mysteriously not taken into account, they might say it doesn't matter. Other times, they might say too bad in response to something else. Neurotypicals are associated with disorderly thinking and I find it hard to believe a disorderly thinker could know better, especially given the advantages of an autistic mind, for example like that of Albert Einstein.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

That's why I like this site.

 

[Suzette]

Sometimes when I point out something someone has mysteriously not taken into account, they might say it doesn't matter. Other times, they might say too bad in response to something else. Neurotypicals are associated with disorderly thinking and I find it hard to believe a disorderly thinker could know better, especially given the advantages of an autistic mind, for example like that of Albert Einstein.

Albert Einstein was an exceptional human being. But don't forget neurodiversity is a very wide spectrum. Most of us actually only have average or slightly about average intellect.
Frankly, I think a lot of N.T. people would be offended by "catergorized by disordered thinking". Who catergorizes N.T. folk this way? It certainly is not in the d.s.m!

Sloppy thinking begins with making broad generalizations and inability or unwillingness to think rationally, and logically through problems. So show us your orderly thinking skills. Is your characterization if N.T. folk truly "correct" or something else?

 

[Ken]

Sometimes when I point out something someone has mysteriously not taken into account, they might say it doesn't matter. Other times, they might say too bad in response to something else. Neurotypicals are associated with disorderly thinking and I find it hard to believe a disorderly thinker could know better, especially given the advantages of an autistic mind, for example like that of Albert Einstein.

I have never been an NT, so I can't truly judge whether an NT knows more or less or better or worse than me. I also know that I have may perception differences from NT's. There is no common reference. It is well known in the art of engineering (a very logic oriented discipline) that a self-reference is never valid. It is hard to decide what a common reference is between NT's and ND's since both perceive the world differently.
Saying that NT's are this way or that way and ND's are another way is stereotyping. I know may very brilliant, logical NT's that are not like you describe; not argumentative and that I get along with very well. I also know some autistic's that takes everything personal and are very argumentative.
There are autistic geniuses and there are NT geniuses. Autistics do not hold an exclusive to genius. Everyone is an individual. There is really no valid Us verses Them here.

 

[unperson]

It's not what you know, it's who you know in NT world. It doesn't matter how brainy or correct you are, it matters that others 'rank' you socially.

 

[Progster]

Neurotypicals are associated with disorderly thinking

What do you mean by 'disorderly thinking'?
Could you please illustrate your point with an example?

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Being self diagnosed, and learning late in life that I was an Aspie. being different was I really noticed my way of thinking was more logicaL then those around me.

 

[Ken]

It's not what you know, it's who you know in NT world. It doesn't matter how brainy or correct you are, it matters that others 'rank' you socially.

I suppose that may be true in general, but I'm not sure by what percentage. It is definitely not a concrete condition. I say that because it is not always true. In the engineering firm(s) where I have worked, it was what you knew over social ranking (or who you knew). Social ranking was a factor, just not the dominant factor. I was always on the bottom of any social ranking, but I was also the go to person for questions on electronics theory and physics as it pertained to design work. My social standing was very low, but I was highly regarded by my peers. I have since retired, but they still come to me with questions. I think this is true in one form or another for everyone. Until I retired and learned that I was autistic, making me review my life, I did not realize that I was highly regarded in any sense. Sometimes we are blinded by life about our lives. As per the second law of thermodynamics; it is very easy to feel depressed or perceive we are slighted when we really aren't.

 

[Nitro]

I think it is ludicrous to think this way.
There are idiots on both sides of that foolish neurological line drawn in the sand.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt